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Over training? advice please!

Andy2010

By Andy2010
in Bodybuilding & aesthetics

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Rookie Senior member

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I like to keep things simple. My poor brain can't cope. Why not listen to the body and take notice of results. If you are not hitting regular PB's then something is not working for you. Small increases in strength should be constantly happening. Particularly when you are just starting out. Trying to analyse the "super compensation curve" thingy so deeply sounds a bit like a chick thing to do when she wants to have a baby. Get under the bar and train.

:nod: Solid advice- I fell into the trap of overthinking and my results came when I put the simple things into practice, like eating every 2-3hrs and setting small goals and achieving them. A quote my mate told me "Would you listen to the person who reads the manual on how to fly planes, or someone who has actually flown one before"

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Phedder Veteran member

Phedder

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Sound explanation HP. This might help some people visualize it better.

supercompensationcurve.png

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Rookie, sounds like that beanpole must know his exercise science concepts, and I bet a beanpole physique works just fine for him in multi sports. No need to be condescending because someone doesn't choose the same path as you.

I understand just getting under the bar and doing the work is effective, but it doesn't hurt to provide some further insight into training for people. They can take note of it and perhaps try change things slightly to see if they can improve their training, or they may have already been training optimally for themselves. Point is there's no need to discount something because it seems complicated, or because it seems to simple. Plenty of things work and there's always a good reason why. The whole super-compensation concept is one which I think provides a good reasoning as to why.

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HumanPerformance Senior member

HumanPerformance

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Sound explanation HP. This might help some people visualize it better.

supercompensationcurve.png

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Rookie, sounds like that beanpole must know his exercise science concepts, and I bet a beanpole physique works just fine for him in multi sports. No need to be condescending because someone doesn't choose the same path as you.

I understand just getting under the bar and doing the work is effective, but it doesn't hurt to provide some further insight into training for people. They can take note of it and perhaps try change things slightly to see if they can improve their training, or they may have already been training optimally for themselves. Point is there's no need to discount something because it seems complicated, or because it seems to simple. Plenty of things work and there's always a good reason why. The whole super-compensation concept is one which I think provides a good reasoning as to why.

Thanks for that Phedder, I was trying to upload a similar graph but it didnt work :(

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Rookie Senior member

Rookie

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Sound explanation HP. This might help some people visualize it better.

supercompensationcurve.png

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Rookie, sounds like that beanpole must know his exercise science concepts, and I bet a beanpole physique works just fine for him in multi sports. No need to be condescending because someone doesn't choose the same path as you.

I understand just getting under the bar and doing the work is effective, but it doesn't hurt to provide some further insight into training for people. They can take note of it and perhaps try change things slightly to see if they can improve their training, or they may have already been training optimally for themselves. Point is there's no need to discount something because it seems complicated, or because it seems to simple. Plenty of things work and there's always a good reason why. The whole super-compensation concept is one which I think provides a good reasoning as to why.

I get it Phedder, to me a PHD in Exercise Physiology is all well in good but if they haven't had the practical experience in the gym to match it then its sort of a cop out to me. I do have an interest in exercise science, hence why I study it but when they teach things like limited range of motion, I got told by a lecturer it was "dangerous on the knees" to do full squats, it makes me think if I would learn off them or from people who have trained for 20+ yrs and actually look the part!!

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Rookie

Do you think IFBB Pro's or guys like Andy Bolton, Mendy etc have sports scientists telling them this and that? I would doubt it...

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Cameron_R Senior member

Cameron_R

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Do you think IFBB Pro's or guys like Andy Bolton, Mendy etc have sports scientists telling them this and that? I would doubt it...

If they are serious about trying to get any edge over their competitors they can, I can guarantee they do!

What you're saying would be like 'Tiger Woods can't learn anything from anyone who hasn't won a Major' - ridiculous.

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Rookie Senior member

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LOL PD, I am not talking a big game.. :lol: Like Dave Tate said how can someone show you how to squat 600lbs if they can only squat 300lbs. That's where you're wrong, training with someone and having a PT are two different things.

Personally if I wanted to get big and strong, I would go to someone who is.. If I was looking to get over 100kg I would not go to someone who is 74kgs..

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tomsammce Veteran member

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LOL PD, I am not talking a big game.. :lol: Like Dave Tate said how can someone show you how to squat 600lbs if they can only squat 300lbs. That's where you're wrong, training with someone and having a PT are two different things.

Personally if I wanted to get big and strong, I would go to someone who is.. If I was looking to get over 100kg I would not go to someone who is 74kgs..

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agree but i can see both sides to it. as what works for x wont always work for y

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Phedder Veteran member

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I get it Phedder, to me a PHD in Exercise Physiology is all well in good but if they haven't had the practical experience in the gym to match it then its sort of a cop out to me. I do have an interest in exercise science, hence why I study it but when they teach things like limited range of motion, I got told by a lecturer it was "dangerous on the knees" to do full squats, it makes me think if I would learn off them or from people who have trained for 20+ yrs and actually look the part!!

I totally agree about the practical experience, I think that's the most important aspect. Something which HumanPerformance has plenty of, who originally brought up the concept. My comment towards you was more to the point of you being condescending (my interpretation) towards the multi sport athlete for being a bean pole. Size probably doesn't matter to him, performance and endurance do. So dismissing what he's said also just because he isn't huge and strong, doesn't mean he hasn't done the hard yards and understand how training works, both in the application and the science.

Doc, I've seen it in quite a few text books but never actually read up on the direct research it is derived from myself. I don't have the time to look much further into it at present but it'll be on my to do list. Sorry I can't provide concrete data to back up the theory, but I'm assuming it's derived from many different studies. How else do you propose that muscle and strength is built? A muscle gets broken down, so it rebuilds itself stronger than before in an attempt to withstand the stress so that it won't be broken down again. Similar with strength. These have been the core tenets of muscle building and strength training for decades have they not?

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Yeah-Buddy Member

Yeah-Buddy

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Do you think IFBB Pro's or guys like Andy Bolton, Mendy etc have sports scientists telling them this and that? I would doubt it...

Are you fuking kidding me? So you think Jay Cutler just goes about his training with no advice from anyone?? The advice he would get would largely come from research at some point. He might not be the one directly listening to the sports scientist but I bet his trainer has read a thing or two.

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Rookie Senior member

Rookie

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Do you think IFBB Pro's or guys like Andy Bolton, Mendy etc have sports scientists telling them this and that? I would doubt it...

Are you fuking kidding me? So you think Jay Cutler just goes about his training with no advice from anyone?? The advice he would get would largely come from research at some point. He might not be the one directly listening to the sports scientist but I bet his trainer has read a thing or two.

I said Sport scientist not Trainer Jay's trainer may have read a thing or two but that is not Jay is it? What I was saying is I bet those guys mentioned don't go directly to a sports scientist.

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Rookie Senior member

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Guys its only lifting weights! You lift things you get bigger and stronger for it. No one ever got bigger by analysing the supercompensation curve ( and imo its better to look at it over a macro cycle rather than micro).

:pfft: :nod: EXACTLY!!!! Eat, train, recover

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Yeah-Buddy Member

Yeah-Buddy

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Are you fuking kidding me? So you think Jay Cutler just goes about his training with no advice from anyone?? The advice he would get would largely come from research at some point. He might not be the one directly listening to the sports scientist but I bet his trainer has read a thing or two.

I said Sport scientist not Trainer Jay's trainer may have read a thing or two but that is not Jay is it? What I was saying is I bet those guys mentioned don't go directly to a sports scientist.

Rookie

What difference does it make who is directly going to the sports scientist or reading their research? Whether jay does it or his trainer does it it makes no difference in the end - its still the same. Jay doesnt do it because he is rich enough to have someone else understand it for him and apply it to his training.

tinytraps wrote:

Guys its only lifting weights! You lift things you get bigger and stronger for it. No one ever got bigger by analysing the supercompensation curve ( and imo its better to look at it over a macro cycle rather than micro).

EXACTLY!!!! Eat, train, recover

No its not rocket science and yes some people stress too much about everything when they should just be lifting. But sometimes its nice to not be ignorant as to why your doing things. We all know the guys who come into the gym day in and day out and never look any differnt a year down the track. Thats because they dont know what to do or why.

Knowledge is power and the more you know the better chances you have of improving in the long run.

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