Over training? advice please!

[Andy2010]

Until recently I trained 6-7 days / week, and was training each body part every 5 days. For the last 3 weeks I have cut back to 5 days per week (sat and sun off) so each body part gets trained every 7-8 days. Ive noticed ive been getting way more sore (DOMS) than before due to the bigger gap between workouts. :grin:

In your opinion will this result in more gains??

Feedback please!!!

[tinytraps]

Hey andy, I dont think how sore you are after a workout is an indicator of wether your going to get better results. Theres a saying that goes its easy to get sore, much harder to get bigger faster and stronger.

[PeterDolan]

Do you put more effort into your trainings now and lift heavier?

Do you eat enough?

[Andy2010]

Hmmm ok, ive always thought to put on size you need to tear muscle fibre for it to repair and then re-grow?

Same amount of effort mate, and yip im eating heaps.. 400 grams protien, 250 carbs, 80 fat approx.. all good clean food..

More suggestions??

[PeterDolan]

There's a few different ways that a muscle grows but you got it fundamentally right

Give what you are doing now a go for about another month and gauge then how you like it

[Andy2010]

Thanks dude..

[PeterDolan]

Also like TT said, being sore doesn't necessarily mean you'll grow more but it usually is a indicator of recovery. If you are sore for longer than 2 days, you aren't recovering fast enough

[Andy2010]

Ok, well legs, chest are sometimes sore for 3 - 4 days, how do you speed up recovery??

[PeterDolan]

Sleep and food is the best way

I think you commented on a thread about sleep saying you get about 8-9 hours so that's fine, just up your calories a bit, you look like you can get lean easy enough and chew through calories like no bodies business

Get the calories as clean as possible and you'll minimise fat gain

maybe up your carbs by 50 g's and see how that works?

[tinytraps]

also note that doms doesnt have an effect on muscular performance.

[Specter]

also note that doms doesnt have an effect on muscular performance.

doms can affect sexual performance though :shifty:

[crazyfacials]

and mopping ! I remember when I was 16 and working at KFC...mopping when you had DOMS was so horrible :pfft:

[HumanPerformance]

Until recently I trained 6-7 days / week, and was training each body part every 5 days. For the last 3 weeks I have cut back to 5 days per week (sat and sun off) so each body part gets trained every 7-8 days. Ive noticed ive been getting way more sore (DOMS) than before due to the bigger gap between workouts. :grin:

In your opinion will this result in more gains??

Feedback please!!!

No it will result in slower gains.

[PeterDolan]

No it will result in slower gains.

What's our reasoning?

Not really contesting your stance, just wanna hear why you think they'll be slower?

[Andy2010]

Keen to hear the reason behind that theory too!!

[HumanPerformance]

Keen to hear the reason behind that theory too!!

When you perform a workout you break down your muscle tissue. All going well over the next couple of days your body rebuilds the damaged tissue and supercompensates by making the muscle slightly bigger and or stronger than it was (hopefully :pray: ). Once it has been rebuilt it will stay at this new level for a day or so and then start to shrink again, this process is called "the supercompensation curve". Now that you are training each muscle only every 7-8 days (as opposed to the five previously) you are missing the "peak" of the curve i.e you are waiting to long between workouts and your muscles are returning to below baseline. So you are in effect De-training the muscle. So when you train it again you experience worse DOMS than before because with each passing week you are progressively de training or under training.

This is a common mistake alot of bodybuilders make as they see the pros all training each bodypart only once a week ,so they think that this is the best way for them to train. But there are many reasons as to why this works for very advanced hugley developed bodybuilders and not for beginers or intermediates.

Firstly a very large muscle (think a 21 inch arm as opposed to a 15 inch one) takes alot longer to recover, so by training each muscle only once every 7 days they are hitting the muscle right at the peak of the curve.

The damage that occurs is often more complete for advanced bodybuilders as well because there fibre recruitment patterns are different to someone who hasnt been training very long, they are able to recruit more muscle fibres when they workout. This is the reason that after many years of training a bodybuilder can get exellent results from alot lower reps than he could when he started. Also anabolic/androgenic steroids have been shown to extend the duration of the "peak of the curve", wether or not this is due to there anti catabolic nature in general im not sure.

So the thing to remember is to hit each muscle at exactly the time so that you are improving on top of previous improvements. Which of course can be tricky as even within the same individual recovery abilities can vary greatly between muscle groups.

[oldfella]

Someone’s gonna say it...................

So are you inferring a newbie should train major muscle groups once every 5 days, then as they gain experience (size etc) over a given period of X years they can cut that back to 6 then every 7 days?

But then that depends on their ability to recover. Recover faster train more often?

[tinytraps]

That sounds about right oldfella. I think people have been bred to fear that if you train more often your gonna overtrain, The weider disease :grin:

[HumanPerformance]

Someone’s gonna say it...................

So are you inferring a newbie should train major muscle groups once every 5 days, then as they gain experience (size etc) over a given period of X years they can cut that back to 6 then every 7 days?

But then that depends on their ability to recover. Recover faster train more often?

No, not at all. In fact I think a "newbie" should train each muscle more frequently than that. But as I know Andy is not a begginer about once every 5 days should be hitting near the top of his supercompensation curve, and therefore be more beneficial than once every 7-8 days (based on the fact of increasing DOMS once changing) .

[oldfella]

This is interesting.

Would then increased DOMS indicate you're having too long a break between training on that particular muscle / muscle group?

I find this interesting as I sometimes train a muscle twice a week because I think it needs it. Not always with DOMS either. I have in my weekly routine to do arms and abs twice a week. Don't get DOMS with either.

Yet I've been doing quads twice a week recently and they're killing me. Especially above the knee. Either I'm finally getting somewhere or over training them.

[Dubble_D]

So increase in DOMS = under-training?

decrease in DOMS = training near peak compensation curve? :think:

[Dr Squat]

Keen to hear the reason behind that theory too!!

When you perform a workout you break down your muscle tissue. All going well over the next couple of days your body rebuilds the damaged tissue and supercompensates by making the muscle slightly bigger and or stronger than it was (hopefully :pray: ). Once it has been rebuilt it will stay at this new level for a day or so and then start to shrink again, this process is called "the supercompensation curve". Now that you are training each muscle only every 7-8 days (as opposed to the five previously) you are missing the "peak" of the curve i.e you are waiting to long between workouts and your muscles are returning to below baseline. So you are in effect De-training the muscle. So when you train it again you experience worse DOMS than before because with each passing week you are progressively de training or under training.

This is a common mistake alot of bodybuilders make as they see the pros all training each bodypart only once a week ,so they think that this is the best way for them to train. But there are many reasons as to why this works for very advanced hugley developed bodybuilders and not for beginers or intermediates.

Firstly a very large muscle (think a 21 inch arm as opposed to a 15 inch one) takes alot longer to recover, so by training each muscle only once every 7 days they are hitting the muscle right at the peak of the curve.

The damage that occurs is often more complete for advanced bodybuilders as well because there fibre recruitment patterns are different to someone who hasnt been training very long, they are able to recruit more muscle fibres when they workout. This is the reason that after many years of training a bodybuilder can get exellent results from alot lower reps than he could when he started. Also anabolic/androgenic steroids have been shown to extend the duration of the "peak of the curve", wether or not this is due to there anti catabolic nature in general im not sure.

So the thing to remember is to hit each muscle at exactly the time so that you are improving on top of previous improvements. Which of course can be tricky as even within the same individual recovery abilities can vary greatly between muscle groups.

Straight from PT 101. :roll:

[Andy2010]

Awesome.. thanks HEAPS for the advice.. :grin:

[Rookie]

Keen to hear the reason behind that theory too!!

When you perform a workout you break down your muscle tissue. All going well over the next couple of days your body rebuilds the damaged tissue and supercompensates by making the muscle slightly bigger and or stronger than it was (hopefully :pray: ). Once it has been rebuilt it will stay at this new level for a day or so and then start to shrink again, this process is called "the supercompensation curve". Now that you are training each muscle only every 7-8 days (as opposed to the five previously) you are missing the "peak" of the curve i.e you are waiting to long between workouts and your muscles are returning to below baseline. So you are in effect De-training the muscle. So when you train it again you experience worse DOMS than before because with each passing week you are progressively de training or under training.

This is a common mistake alot of bodybuilders make as they see the pros all training each bodypart only once a week ,so they think that this is the best way for them to train. But there are many reasons as to why this works for very advanced hugley developed bodybuilders and not for beginers or intermediates.

Firstly a very large muscle (think a 21 inch arm as opposed to a 15 inch one) takes alot longer to recover, so by training each muscle only once every 7 days they are hitting the muscle right at the peak of the curve.

The damage that occurs is often more complete for advanced bodybuilders as well because there fibre recruitment patterns are different to someone who hasnt been training very long, they are able to recruit more muscle fibres when they workout. This is the reason that after many years of training a bodybuilder can get exellent results from alot lower reps than he could when he started. Also anabolic/androgenic steroids have been shown to extend the duration of the "peak of the curve", wether or not this is due to there anti catabolic nature in general im not sure.

So the thing to remember is to hit each muscle at exactly the time so that you are improving on top of previous improvements. Which of course can be tricky as even within the same individual recovery abilities can vary greatly between muscle groups.

:doh: Sounds exactly the same as what a 6ft+ beanpole into multi sports has told me....

[Dr Squat]

I like to keep things simple. My poor brain can't cope. Why not listen to the body and take notice of results. If you are not hitting regular PB's then something is not working for you. Small increases in strength should be constantly heppening. Particularly when you are just starting out. Trying to analyse the "super compensation curve" thingy so deeply sounds a bit like a chick thing to do when she wants to have a baby. Get under the bar and train.