When cutting? High rep vs Low Rep

[agent86]

I do 1000rep workouts 8 to 10 weeks out from comps, as many as 100rep sets. the best gains in muscle size and condition for me has been during this time. The only reson i train low reps in the off season is so my body does not get use to the high reps.

The only way i can lose muscle is to not eat enough protein.

More than one way to skin a cat an all that.

[Nato]

agent86..... yes everyone is different! hence the "more than one way to skin a cat"

I too only wanna look like i bench the most, when your on stage your weight, strenght, measurements all go out the window. you as a bodybuilder a creating a look. the best guys in the world compete at the same bodyweight i do but they make me look tiny.

This hole training heavy thing is silly to me (but it works for some) at the end of the day what makes a muscle grow??? You train, do damage to your muscle, you eat protein and carbs and grow, right........ well simply put anyway :pfft: . What does the most damage........... 6 squats at 180kg or 100 squats at 60kg???? (takes me 12 minutes to do that) Try it, Nato dears you all :pfft: 100 reps to the floor!! I dont kear what weight you use :grin: shit do the bar :grin:. It took me 6 months before i could complete a full leg work out when i changed from low reps to high reps. the change in my legs was crazy cool.

Yes i use high reps for all body parts pre comp agent86. You have put that your arms got smaller when doing high reps. did you eat more protein and carbs when you change to the harder training (high reps). THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN LOSE MUSCLE IS IF YOU ANT EATING ENOUGH!!!! THAT SIMPLE

[1day]

ahaha, mann!! ,just wen i think i have half a clue to wot im doin.....u guys go and scrable my head with heaps more to think about :doh: lol

[Darwinstef]

ahaha, mann!! ,just wen i think i have half a clue to wot im doin.....u guys go and scrable my head with heaps more to think about :doh: lol

Yeah ditto :shock:

[boostinggtir]

Yea at end of the day you have guys at the top the game doing things totally different then each other. An if there's one sport where your going to have to sort though an overload of information, it's body-building. I guess for me, the main thing I'm concerned about, is that I've read a handful of times that high reps are not the one for natural guys.

[ohjoshua]

100 squats at 60kg???? (takes me 12 minutes to do that) Try it, Nato dears you all :pfft: 100 reps to the floor!!

Have done like 200 - 300 in 10min a couple of times so you must be going pretty slow .

[soundsgood]

THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN LOSE MUSCLE IS IF YOU ANT EATING ENOUGH!!!! THAT SIMPLE

Im not too sure its that Simple for everyone Nate. My legs have lost ALOT of muscle since I changed to high reps and started doing 2 x cardio per day (road run and Treadmill run).

Im eating 300-400g + protein per day and Im only 200 pounds now.

Thats not to say that Im not happy with the way I look now, cos I am, but I guess not every cat skins the same way :pfft:

Gonna try that 100 x 60kg tomorrow. Do you just do the one set, or a few sets like that?

[Optimass]

THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN LOSE MUSCLE IS IF YOU ANT EATING ENOUGH!!!! THAT SIMPLE

Im not too sure its that Simple for everyone Nate. My legs have lost ALOT of muscle since I changed to high reps and started doing 2 x cardio per day (road run and Treadmill run).

Im eating 300-400g + protein per day and Im only 200 pounds now.

Thats not to say that Im not happy with the way I look now, cos I am, but I guess not every cat skins the same way :pfft:

Gonna try that 100 x 60kg tomorrow. Do you just do the one set, or a few sets like that?

Carbs per day? How often and how much - what type and how much water are you drinking?

.... what are you taking supplements wise ... gear etc?

[soundsgood]

How much affect does low carb intake have with regards to maintaining muscle mass?

My carbs are at a minimal while Im cutting. A cup of oats and banana at breakfast, 2 servings brown rice or kumara at lunch and half cup oats w banana post workout, and thats it carb-wise for the day really.

Heaps of supps, no gear, 4-5L + water a day

Its all in my journal optimass, link below

[Optimass]

How much affect does low carb intake have with regards to maintaining muscle mass?

My carbs are at a minimal while Im cutting. A cup of oats and banana at breakfast, 2 servings brown rice or kumara at lunch and half cup oats w banana post workout, and thats it carb-wise for the day really.

Heaps of supps, no gear, 4-5L + water a day

Its all in my journal optimass, link below

Carbs convert to glycogen --- stored in muscle --- no carbs = flat muscle.

Your not losing muscle mate >>> For your body to burn protein as energy it needs to reach ketosis. It could take anywhere from 3 to 10 days for you to hit that after eating trace carbs for that long. Proteins are way harder to break down than carbs so Nato is 100% right - you wont lose muscle provided you have enough protein. But at a guess ... and I stand to be corrected ... he keeps carbs in right through to final week/days which means he is not at risk of ketosis anyway ... I do anyway.

MEAL 1: Double Protein Shake / Banana / cup rolled oats

MEAL 2: 160g Chop Chop Chicken on brown rice w veges

MEAL 3: 160g Chop Chop Chicken

MEAL 4: Double Protein shake / banana / half cup rolled oats

MEAL 5: 400g Chicken Breast w salad

MEAL 6: 8 egg omelete (3 yolks) / double protein shake

Cutting and 2 bananas? your kidding right - well you are getting results but considering their high sugar content you may be fighting painful hunger on the other side of those meals, not too mention your body will process them pretty quick - wasted on stores in muscle.

Meal 6 - 8 egg omelete and a double shake? How many grams prot from your shake? Assuming you're triaining natural as you say you are at 89kg your probably processing/(getting functional use from) around 40 to 50g max in a 3-4 hour period --- so what do you think is happening to the rest? waste and/or fat... or burn maybe if your depleted enough.

IMO ....

I would drop your protein to 1.8g per kg + a post w/out shake to bring it up to 2+ per kg. (Shakes in water) at 89kg you are coming into a normalised weight range for your height/age. You only need more if your advancing your test cycle - and you say you are not on the bike. Nattys can't play by the same rules as the elites and pros.

Water to 5L + 1L when you run/train - (1 for each full hour).

What you are saving in protein add in as low GI carbs. (spread it evenly as with your protein through the day). I keep it 45P/45C/10F pretty much all the way through --- you can swap carbs for protein gram for gram as they both are 4cals to burn. (sugar is a carb but it cause an insulin spike which will result in your body storing other excess energy for fats/prot/carbs)

Eggs in the morning only - preferably first meal. (high sodium) - will help flush the extra water through quickly during the day.

A.P.O - apple pear orange - you don't eat any fruit and don't appear to take a multi vitamin??? Where do you get these from... I APO 1st 3 meals of the day.

Finally -> you have achieved some great results mate and knowledge is king --- save some of the money you spend on supplements and go buy a book on nutrition --- it will pay you back 50 times more over than creatine caps (WTF - I must be old fashioned), and a thermo.

[Optimass]

Forgot to add ... I run too mate and it doesn't effect my leg size. They aren't the biggest on stage but even at 6'3 tall they are still pretty swole.

[soundsgood]

Thanks alot Optimass. That was one hell of a post and some great advice :grin:

[Nato]

You know your shit Optimass :clap: I couldn't be fucked writing all that :pfft:

YES soundsgood it is that simple! ( if there is blood in your shit then you are losing muscle!!!)

You say you have lost muscle...... now, are you saying that because your measurements are smaller? You need to understand that muscle also has fat inside it!! ( Have a look at a fat steak ) So when you lean up that fat inside the muscle is also coming out. Your measurements will be smaller yes, but more than likely you still have the same amount of muscle....... and it will be harder and more defined............. and you gotta love that :grin:

Ill be at say 120kg to 125kg at 10% body fat when i start cutting........... Soooo going on that, i should be at ripped at 0% fat at like 110kgs?? But im not :cry: im 107kgs at just over 4%. shows you how much fat i was carrying in the muscle. lose 13 or more kgs to drop 6%.

Dude, 89kgs and as lean as you are "clean" is pretty fucken good! :clap:

[Optimass]

You know your shit Optimass :clap: I couldn't be fucked writing all that :pfft:

I broke a sweat typing :nod:

but I still have lots to learn - your posts are often the most practical on the forum and I have pick up a few things here and there that I have overlooked previously ... thanks.

[Nato]

Cheers Optimass :grin: :grin: I think the "practical post" thing you talk of is just me trying to keep it simple.

Its cool to know that there are people posting on this site that do know there shit and can back it up, as you do :clap: again ..............i cant be bothered taking the time to put all down.

This has been a cool thread :nod:

[boostinggtir]

Yea great info guys, nice an simple, I shell continue with my 30,25,15 reps during my cut :doh:. Hey soundsgood what gym to you train at?

[Pseudonym]

Thanks guys - you've motivated me to stop guessing/pretending and start counting again!

Eggs in the morning only - preferably first meal. (high sodium) - will help flush the extra water through quickly during the day.

This was the only bit I didn't quite get. Doesn't sodium make you retain water? How does the timing have have effect?

[Optimass]

Thanks guys - you've motivated me to stop guessing/pretending and start counting again!

Eggs in the morning only - preferably first meal. (high sodium) - will help flush the extra water through quickly during the day.

This was the only bit I didn't quite get. Doesn't sodium make you retain water? How does the timing have have effect?

There is a bit more to it ... will try to make it as simple as poss ....

When you eat a high sodium diet your body works to get it out of your system as quick as possible through passing water. (trys to balance sodium and potassium levels) You retain water in the presence of sodium and dehydration. By increasing your water intake you reduce the sodium level quicker and your water retention decreases. (making you look leaner at the same time :wink: ) if you don't take water your body will act like a camel.

When you sleep you need adequate fluid in your system to repair/recover. If you don't you will wake up dehydrated. If you have a high sodium meal it will only excellerate dehydration - which effects your performance as soon as you wake up -

as bodybuilders we put so much focus into protein consumption that we can easily overlook water as our bodies primary required supplement. Without it you gain little value from the supplements you take - you impeade the bodies natural ability to produce hormone / digestion / recovery / strength and performance drops etc etc etc.

I read a very valid article recently that stated the number 1 reason most pro athletes (general) can perform at their best all year round and then lose an olympic event (for example), was dehydration. (this was outside psychological baggage).

.....

Banana - high in sugar and potassium... another good reason to leave them out when you are cutting for a show.