Gaining size with out strenght

[ngapuhi strong]

i'm wondering what everyones view is on this?

is it possible to gain musscle mass without gaining strenght?

my reason for asking are over the last 6months or so i have been focusing on gaining mo mass, i feel like i'm doing this but my strenght gains have been minimul, only exercises i'm making good gains on are ones i hadnt done before starting my mass gaining fase eg deedlifts squats leg press and as you can see they are all leg exercises, uper body strenght has stayed the same and my wide grip chins have got worse, i keep telling myself this is because of the 10kg i've put on :pfft:

[blairandkelly]

the easiest way to add size without the stregnth part is to get fat , but who wants that aye, how do you look in the mirror? allot of that 10kg could well be fat, hows your diet? protein wise , and are you hitting your bodyparts with intensity ? my wide grip chins are heaps better since i started fropping bf , i can easily pump out sets of 8-12 now

[Dale]

the answer is yes nga, there are loads of bodybuilders with well developed muscle structures yet have relative weakness. While theoretically a larger muscle should be a stronger muscle that is not the case and strength is also very dependent on nervous system, muscle recruitment ability and tendon strength..individuals like Ahola (multiple worlds strongest man) weighed around 110kg and didn't look excessively muscular by any means (apart from great back thickness) while many of his competitors weighed 140kg to 160kg+, but he was stronger...i mean a 400kg+ deadlift at 110kg is not bad

[Luigi]

strength < thats how its spelled

and nah size and strength arn't 2 relative at all, iv seen 60 kg dudes squat 200+ and yet 110kg dudes - still muscular having trouble squatting 100kgs, probly a bad example come to think of it... lol

and my wide grip chins have gotten worse 2 even though my backs stronger than ever :? dips n pushups have improved though so yea :-s

[SamWelly]

Chest strength seems to be affected by bodyweight more than deads and squats.

Any bodyweight related excersize is of course a lot harder for a heavier guy. Pull ups at 115kg are a lot harder than when I was under 90kg :pfft:

[Mike Zero]

If you put on muscle, you should at least put on a little bit of strength.

[NZPT]

size and strength are relative to an extent. Increases in muscle size is due to increases in cross sectional area of muscle fibers therefor an increase in strength will occur. but also factors such as rate of force production, type of contraction, biomechanical factors etc etc all relate to strength.

So at the end of the day you will get stronger performing Bodybuilder workouts but there are other contributing factors to the equation to.

[Nato]

You can get bigger with out getting stronger!!!!! You can get stronger with out gaining any weight or size!!!!!!

To be honest (not proud of it lol) But the bigger i get the weaker i get!!!!???? Its like the bigger the muscle, the easer it is to get pumped. I guess my form is getting better all the time too.

I always tell people that " I only wanna look like I lift big weights, not lift big weights!!! that hurts" lol

[NZPT]

You can get bigger with out getting stronger!!!!!

yeah its called getting fat

You can get stronger with out gaining any weight or size!!!!!!

to an extent, its form and neuromuscular facilitation (stimulating better contraction and more actin and myosin cross bridges)

And if your getting bigger and not stronger, and even weaker id have a look at your diet and skinfolds as each are pretty relative to each other

NZPT

[Nato]

I'm growing all the time. I don't care if I'm growing using a 50kg dumbbell or a 1kg dumbbell!!!!! truth is............ id rather grow using a 1kg dumbbell :pfft: :pfft: :pfft: .

[NZPT]

I'm growing all the time. I don't care if I'm growing using a 50kg dumbbell or a 1kg dumbbell!!!!! truth is............ id rather grow using a 1kg dumbbell

good stuff just clearing up the science of it.

Im the opposite, i wanna be as strong as i look.

[craig.j]

I'm growing all the time. I don't care if I'm growing using a 50kg dumbbell or a 1kg dumbbell!!!!! truth is............ id rather grow using a 1kg dumbbell

good stuff just clearing up the science of it.

Im the opposite, i wanna be as strong as i look.

and i wanna be stronger than i look!

lifting weights should be a way of improving your life as well as looking good! (functional strength) having a max deadlift of 200+ is wwwwaaaaaayyy better than a 100kg imho

[mr natural]

I'm growing all the time. I don't care if I'm growing using a 50kg dumbbell or a 1kg dumbbell!!!!! truth is............ id rather grow using a 1kg dumbbell

good stuff just clearing up the science of it.

Im the opposite, i wanna be as strong as i look.

and i wanna be stronger than i look!

lifting weights should be a way of improving your life as well as looking good! (functional strength) having a max deadlift of 200+ is wwwwaaaaaayyy better than a 100kg imho

yeah but thats to much hard work lol,i'm with nato on this one!

[SamWelly]

I'll take strength over size anyday.

Massive thick traps and big rounded shoulders are dead giveaways for a strong lifter. Look at Marius Pusanowski - That dudes neck and traps are bigger than my torso haha. Theres a guy with a similar size to me at my gym, we both are the same width and height - but his density is a lot less. I put it down to the fact he lifts half the weight I do...

Any truth in this?

[Nato]

I think the only way you can get thick, is through years of training. You arnt gonna get thick over nite!!!!!!

As for the strength thing??? I'm not saying you can't get big lifting big heavy weights for low reps ( that has been proven time and time again ). But for me its about being a little smarter than that. I mean I've been training 12 years to get to where i am. I plan on training for at least another 10 years, till I'm at my peek, at around 40ish. Lifting big weights takes its toll on the body. You can't train injured!!!!!! And you can't train if your knees, back, shoulders, elbows are f*ck from years of heavy lifting. Train the muscle not the joints.

There are guys in my gym that dead 280kg, squat 250kg, bench 180kg, I don't train with half that weight most of the time and I'm twice there size. I could train with those weights.......... if i wanted!!!!!!!! f*ck that!!!!!!!!!!!!! like i said "smarter not harder". I'm about volume and getting pumped to the point you cant move. Thats how I've done it :nod:

Just my opinion people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS........ Back when I was a harry and lifting big weights was how i trained. I would have to admit...... that leaving the gym after doing shit that most people couldn't do with a f**king trolley jack, Was a pretty cool feeling!!!!!

[buffazn]

ive only gained minimal strength over the past few months, maybe none at all but i am a lot bigger and thicker. have no idea why this is cos im eating resting and training a lot better. so i guess u can get bigger (lean mass) without much strength gains

[SamWelly]

I've put another 30kg on my bench in the last 4 months and have only added an inch :cry: Time to put some volume back into my training I think. Nothing like sliding on plate after plate and feeling the weight strain your whole body tho.

So what does your normal workout look like? Heaps of volume and slow reps I'm guessing?

[Nato]

Nar.........i hate slow reps. Again I'm going for pump. I stay in the middle range of the movement ( don't lock out and not a full stretch ) Then get the weight moving and keep it moving, but not fast enough to throw your form out. Ill sit in the 12 to 18 rep range, 4 to Or 5 sets for each exercise. All depends on what body part I'm training to how many exercises i do, like legs ill do 9 exercises (biggest workout 2 hrs) Chest ill do 5 exercises (smallest workout 50mins) real sort rest time!!!!!!! Teach your body to recover fast as. Better you recovery....... the more you grow!!!!!!!!

[1day]

Nar.........i hate slow reps. Again I'm going for pump. I stay in the middle range of the movement ( don't lock out and not a full stretch ) Then get the weight moving and keep it moving, but not fast enough to throw your form out. Ill sit in the 12 to 18 rep range, 4 to Or 5 sets for each exercise. All depends on what body part I'm training to how many exercises i do, like legs ill do 9 exercises (biggest workout 2 hrs) Chest ill do 5 exercises (smallest workout 50mins) real sort rest time!!!!!!! Teach your body to recover fast as. Better you recovery....... the more you grow!!!!!!!!

ive gone from heavy weights and low reps to simalar to the above routines ,and i can say that evan only after about 8-12wks i am not loosing size. + im gaining shape and still gaining strength slowly.

at the end of the day your mind is gona get you to were u goal is, so regardless of ya training routines , u wont see resaults unless to push your bodys limits metaly and phycicaly and find what works for you.

[mr natural]

i find that mostly high volume training is best for body building, generally i like to train light to heavy then light again for maxium pump at the end of each exercise,i find this blows up the muscle to the max.

I am currently working on building up my strength in my compound movements so the training is different with less volume and heavier weight.

I believe a stronger muscle can rep out longer with a weight than a slightly weaker muscle can,therefore it can cause better pump and growth.

I beleive incorperateing some sort of strength training phase every 2-3 mths.

[buffazn]

yea same high volume for me but not slow reps, reps have pretty good rhythm and always get a good pump. i used to do everything 3 sets of 8 reps before i changed my training and i found i grow a lot more the way i train now.

[vracula]

i was just gonna start a thread on this exact topic,i as well look bigger than i can lift im not too fat ,I concentrate on form lot and do about 6 to 8 reps and like a good pump,i have had good gains but have had sticking points for 1 or 2 months at a time.i also train alone which is why my strength hasnt grown,ive noticed when you train with a partner you do get stronger only due to the forced reps!

[ngapuhi strong]

i was just gonna start a thread on this exact topic,i as well look bigger than i can lift im not too fat ,I concentrate on form lot and do about 6 to 8 reps and like a good pump,i have had good gains but have had sticking points for 1 or 2 months at a time.i also train alone which is why my strength hasnt grown,ive noticed when you train with a partner you do get stronger only due to the forced reps!

i'm the same i train alone witch i think has affected my strenght gains

is quiet funny i talk to people and they think i must be super strong and can bench twice my body weight wen in reality i cant bench crap all,

[Dale]

i was just gonna start a thread on this exact topic,i as well look bigger than i can lift im not too fat ,I concentrate on form lot and do about 6 to 8 reps and like a good pump,i have had good gains but have had sticking points for 1 or 2 months at a time.i also train alone which is why my strength hasnt grown,ive noticed when you train with a partner you do get stronger only due to the forced reps!

i'm the same i train alone witch i think has affected my strenght gains

is quiet funny i talk to people and they think i must be super strong and can bench twice my body weight wen in reality i cant bench crap all,

Read this thread and had to make a comment...Agree with you on bench but if you use weighted dips, you can go hard and heavy. you can stand on a block and give yourself forced reps by pushing up with one leg and then do the negative again 5x5 or 3x3 style. This will add to your bench strength significantly.

Dont agree with training alone for anything else. If you want to gain strength and break through sticking points, crank up some hard core music and get into using the power racks for partial deadlifts, bottom squats, bench pressing, use one arm dumbbell curls and do forced reps by helping with other hand, focus on negatives. Do weighted chins, again use step up and lopwer yourself slowly with extra weight, then drop the weight and crank out extra then go to pulldowns (if at a gym)

But most of all HARDEN THE F#@K UP and lift. training alone is no reason not to be strong. A weak mind is the only barrier.

[ngapuhi strong]

i dont use it as an excuse, strenght just isnt my foucse

in past when it has been i've made good strenght gains,

when traing for strengh i reckon you cant go past training with someone stronger then your self, makes you train like a mo fo just to try n catch partner