#drizzt

[Dontrunwithknives]

Good stuff :nod: first time seeing powercleans, they look like a good exercise.

[drizzt]

Cheers bro! They are a very good exercise... but quite technical. Easy to perform incorrectly, and hard to re-learn proper technique :nod: However I think even with poor technique, they helped my deadlift immensely with speed from the floor. If you're in the House again at some point, see if OB can give you some pointers.

So in saying the above, I'm pretty much trying to relearn it myself! And am still keen for any feedback anyone may have for me (or M.T) :grin:

13.09.11 - 5 x 5 W2/D1

101 flat. Pretty standard for a Monday.

• Squats (sets, reps, weights)
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 10 @ 60kg
  1 x 6 @ 100kg
  1 x 3 @ 120kg
  1 x 2 @ 140kg
  1 x 2 @ 160kg
  Working
  5 x 5 @ 170kg (b)
  
• Bench
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 6 @ 60kg
  Working
  1 x 5 @ 85kg
  1 x 5 @ 90kg
  1 x 5 @ 100kg
  1 x 5 @ 105kg
  1 x 5 @ 110kg
  
• Power Cleans
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 5 @ 40kg
  Working
  1 x 5 @ 55kg
  1 x 5 @ 60kg
  1 x 5 @ 65kg
  1 x 5 @ 70kg
  1 x 5 @ 75kg
  
• Dips
  1 x 5 @ +10kg
  1 x 5 @ +15kg
  1 x 5 @ +25kg

Comments

• NOW we're getting somewhere! Really stoked to get through today's squats with just the belt for the working sets (and not having to use it for the warmups). Finally feel as though I'm getting my squatting mojo back (touch wood).
  The reps were hard here-and-there, but I think 170 5 x 5 would've been at the edge of what I was capable of without wrapping during Smolov (190 5 x 5 with tight wraps was tough some days!), so I'm stoked to get this out without wrapping because that indicates I'm close to where I was during Smolov. Friday may be the first occasion to wrap (hitting 185 x 5 for the top set I think), but pleased to get this far without them.
  
• Bench was ok, first few working sets were fast and easy, but could feel the fatigue setting in on 105 and 110. These were a bit slower than I would've liked, but bench endurance has always been one of my weak points so I'm not surprised. Otherwise, it's feeling pretty good!
  
• Powercleans were really good as well, first few sets I felt like I was nailing form again, but as I started to fatigue (and the weight got heavier), I noticed 70 was harder to thrust the hips through on, and 75 was nearly impossible. I reckon 60-65 is the top of my "good technique" range right now, and 70-75 is where I start losing it and just muscling the bar up however I can.
  
• Dips were good, upped the weight a little from prescribed (to fit in with what M.T was doing) and still pretty easy.

Great session! Feel like I'm back in the game. Assistance tomorrow.

[Laver]

Hey mate,

Form critique on power clean

Not bad overall, going to offer a couple of improvements

Start with hips higher slightly higher, so the bar is over the midpoint of the foot rather than the toe-ball, you'll still be in a mechanically strong position but the bar won't have to travel forward around the knee as far, which will assist you in keep the bar in contact with the leg until it leaves you hip. You'll know you've risen the hips to far if your shoulders are in front of the bar (as opposed to directly above) when the bar is still touching shins at the start position.

Arm bend comes after the hip thrust (and trap shrug) not before, it is used to continue momentum rather than generate it, this will also mean your hip thrust will start mid thigh instead of top thigh as it is currently

Keep it up, nice to see you using hip thrust which is very important, speed and power looks good

[drizzt]

Awesome! Thanks Laver, exactly what I was after, cheers :grin: I'll put these into practice on the next session, and take some vids if I remember.

I was leaning toward dropping the weights back a bit, just until I feel I've nailed the form of the lift, so I think I might just do that starting with the next Powercleans session :nod:

[drizzt]

14.08.11 - 5 x 5 Assistance

100.5 today. Assistance was done the same as last week (bis/rest/tris/rest/bis/etc..). So the first four exercises were done as two pairs.

• EZ Bar Skullcrushers (sets, reps, weights)
  1 x 10 @ 20kg/ps
  1 x 10 @ 22.5kg/ps
  1 x 10 @ 25kg/ps
  
• DB Curls
  1 x 10 @ 40lb
  2 x 10 @ 45lb
  
• Pushdowns
  1 x 10 @ 150 (rope - full stack, bit light, so changed to single arm)
  2 x 10/ps @ 100 (single-arm)
  
• Standing EZ Bar Curls
  1 x 10 @ 10kg/ps
  2 x 10 @ 15kg/ps
  
• Standing Calf Raises superset with Seated Calf Raises
  1 x 15 @ 80kg & 1 x 12 @ 40kg
  1 x 15 @ 80kg & 1 x 15 @ 35kg
  1 x 20 @ 80kg & 1 x 15 @ 35kg
  
• Decline Weighted Situps superset with Landmines
  1 x 10 @ +10kg & 1 x 10/ps @ bar
  2 x 15 @ +10kg & 2 x 10/ps @ bar

Comments

• Good day, not much to say. Left elbow gave me a bit of grief on the skullcrushers, but faded toward the end of the session so hopefully working it is doing it some good.
  I've decided we're not going to muck around with these light-moderate weights on assistance days now. We're not going to failure, but we're going to err on the side of heavy for 8-10 reps (reps 8 through 10 should be a struggle and possibly spotted). I think we were wasting a bit of time going light before, so I'd like to see how this method goes.
  Also made sure rest periods were low, so it was a nice, quick workout.

Roll on Deads tomorrow!

[tinytraps]

How you finding the 5x5 D even though it is early days Think theres enough squat volume to maintain? After such an intense cycle you would think that would have to continually do more and more to get better :think:

[drizzt]

How you finding the 5x5 D even though it is early days Think theres enough squat volume to maintain? After such an intense cycle you would think that would have to continually do more and more to get better :think:

Actually good, but you're right, it's early days so a bit hard to tell at the moment. I think it's encouraging that I got the 5x5 @ 170 out without wrapping, as I believe it's around about what I would've been good for without wraps during Smolov (was tough for a couple of weeks doing wrapped 5x5 @ 190 during Smolov) :nod: I think the spike in volume with Smolov was a good kick up the arse, but I don't necessarily think it's the end of progression for me in these lower-volumed programs. Guys like The Beast at my gym still gain really well on 5x5, so I'm encouraged by their results!

The coming weeks will quickly tell whether or not I can maintain the numbers though, as it progresses really fast. 5x5 @ 190 next week, 200 the week after - finish the program on 3x3 @ 230 I think!

Will also be dropping the Front Squats out of Day 2's workout and reverting back to the schedule. Figure it's not a good time to be messing with the routine, and I like the extra back squat volume.

[drizzt]

15.09.11 - 5 x 5 W2/D2

101 flat. M.T is outstripping me by a couple kilo these days :shock: Need to up my game.

• Squats (sets, reps, weights)
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 10 @ 60kg
  1 x 6 @ 100kg
  1 x 3 @ 120kg
  1 x 2 @ 140kg
  Working
  2 x 5 @ 150kg (b)
  
• OH Pin Press
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 5 @ 40kg
  1 x 3 @ 60kg
  Working
  5 x 5 @ 70kg
  
• Deads
  Warmups
  bar deficits
  1 x 5 @ 70kg
  1 x 3 @ 120kg
  1 x 2 @ 150kg
  Working
  5 x 5 @ 185kg
  
• Chins
  1 x 5 @ +5kg
  1 x 5 @ +15kg (last 2 spotted)
  1 x 3 @ +20kg (last 2 spotted)
  
• RHE
  3 x 10 @ 20kg

Comments

• Squats started off ok, but the dreaded adductor inflammation returned. Had the same thing the first week into the Smolov Intense cycle, where I had to cut a squat session short because I couldn't force myself to squat anymore. This time, I took 1000mg Ibuprofen, tiger balmed up madly, stretched them out as well as I could... but the deeper I got into the sets, the worse the pain got. I think it was getting to the point where if I kept going, something was going to pop, so I threw in the towel before finishing the last few sets. The adductors were so inflamed, I could feel my inner thighs pressing hard against each other (which doesn't usually happen - adductors aren't my strongest point!).
  Happy to get 2 of the prescribed sets out though, as only a few sets into the warmups it was quite painful. Hoping this is a one off like it was for Smolov, will just need to dig the fingers in a bit and loosen the areas up.
  
• We've stopped push pressing on the advice of The Beast, and made it an Overhead Pin Press, with the bar starting at nose height. Really good, means you can't generate that momentum from the chest with a push off, can't really get the legs going, and it's kinda the weak stage of my bench so fingers crossed there's some carry-over. Definitely harder than the push presses, but we'll persist with the weights we've got and see how it goes.
  
• Deads started off quite sore due to the adductor inflammation making it harder to sit back, but as that begun to die down I came into my own a bit. Smashed it all fairly easily in the end, no belt, and hook gripped everything. Next week's 5x5 at 205 should start to challenge the hook grip a bit...
  
• Chins were tough, thinking from next week we may get the heavier sets out first as I find that's when I'm strongest, and save the light sets for when I've got less in the tank. Hopefully this results in me getting all of the reps out unassisted, but we'll see.
  
• RHEs were in there as our lower backs are quite tight from the powercleans/deadlifts/squats, so feel we need something to loosen up the area.

Good session, hoping the adductors are better for Saturday's squats.

[drizzt]

17.09.11 - 5 x 5 W2/D3

102.2 today, probably the couple of Pizzas from Hells I had last night :pfft:

• Squats (sets, reps, weights)
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 10 @ 60kg
  1 x 6 @ 100kg
  1 x 3 @ 120kg
  Working
  1 x 5 @ 140kg
  1 x 5 @ 155kg
  1 x 5 @ 165kg (b)
  1 x 5 @ 175kg (b/loose-kw)
  1 x 5 @ 185kg (b/kw)
  
• Bench
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 6 @ 60kg
  Working
  5 x 5 @ 100kg
  
• Power Cleans
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 5 @ 40kg (couple of the reps were hang cleans)
  Working
  3 x 5 @ 60kg
  1 x 5 @ 70kg
  1 x 5 @ 40kg
  
• Turkish Get-ups
  1 x 5 @ 5lb
  1 x 5 @ 15lb
  1 x 5 @ 20lb

Comments

• Squats felt pretty good today, got all the way up to the 165 set without using the belt, but 165 felt kinda tough-ish with the belt, tough enough that I thought 5 x 175 may have been out of reach today without wraps. So did them very loosely (pretty sure I still had full flexion of my knees :pfft:). That set was tough as I didn't get much at all from the wraps, so I tightened them up for the 185 set and it felt much better, easy 5 there.
  
• Bench is feeling good, not a lot to say, wasn't terribly hard.
  
• Powercleans were good (didn't get any footage). We started off hang cleaning just so we could get used to keeping our arms straight until we've thrusted the hips and the bar is flying up. I think we got pretty close to getting it right today. I was meant to be doing all 5 sets at 70kg today, but I find that too tough to do (properly) so I dropped the weight back. It felt good enough that I tried 70 in the 4th set, but that was a bit of a failure form-wise so I dropped it right back to 40 to end on a good note.
  
• Turks were surpsisingly easy today, think I'm getting the hang of it!

Went and got a feed after this, then came back for a quick 2nd session to get some assistance out.

[drizzt]

17.08.11 - Assistance (shoulders/upper back)

• DB Side Raises (sets, reps, weights)
  1 x 10 @ 25lb
  2 x 10 @ 30lb
  
• DB Rows
  1 x 10/ps @ 100lb
  2 x 10/ps @ 110lb
  
• Rear Delt Raises
  1 x 10 @ 10lb
  3 x 10 @ 15lb

Comments

• Nice little assistance session tacked on the end here, cool to break them up into two sessions after a bit of a refuel.
  
• Also had the Scottish Rugby team in about halfway through this session, there are some big, BIG lads in that squad! One monster almost straight away jumped into squatting 4 x 180, and 4 x 200... completely raw (no belt or anything) :shock: Real easy too, and pretty good depth-wise. In fact, most of the team were squatting, and pretty much all of them had really good technique, pleasantly surprised!
  Also had a quick chat to the Team nutritionist who OB introduced me to, just quickly picked his brains about what sort of training they do in-season, and what sort of purpose the weights serve for them. Really cool to be able to talk to someone with that international sort of experience, stoked as :grin:

Nice day after, so gave the old Mustang a bit of a run around town, good times. Going to SA v Fiji tonight, expect Fiji to keep it close, that's my prediction!

[runveerun]

Ahhh that's your Mustang outside the house, very nice! 8)

[drizzt]

Well... it's my Mum's car :pfft: But yes I was driving it 8) She lets me take it out fortnightly so you'll see it out there every couple of weeks :nod:

Dad also has a nice classic (Bel Air) that I'd love to take for a spin every now and again, but I'm not quite sure when that stage of trust in my driving will come

[runveerun]

Well... it's my Mum's car :pfft: But yes I was driving it 8) She lets me take it out fortnightly so you'll see it out there every couple of weeks :nod:

Dad also has a nice classic (Bel Air) that I'd love to take for a spin every now and again, but I'm not quite sure when that stage of trust in my driving will come

Oh I see! Lucky you being allowed to drive it and what cool parents you have! Are they looking to adopt any 30 something girls? :pray:

I have admired it a couple of times walking past, don't see too many of them around! 8)

[MARS]

Those Cleans look good bro, strength to burn. Instead of going light for 5 reps to improve technique though, I find going heavier for less reps is the best way to improve efficiency.

The fastest way to learn is when you are forced to think about the most effective way to accelerate the bar. You see straight away you got it wrong when the bar falls short or that you got it right when the same weight pops up easily. With a light weight the bar will come up whichever way you lift it.

Take a few seconds between reps to go through all your cues too. Until you have the movement down, jumping straight in to the next rep with a light weight is really just a cardio workout. You need to time to think about what you did wrong/right before each rep or you just end up flailing about and not learning much.

Just my opinion, I'm new to it as well so take what I said with a grain of salt. You have a lot more lifting experience but I thought I would share my thoughts in case it helped.

[drizzt]

Bro, absolutely no problems taking advice from anyone experienced or otherwise. Plus, you're probably more experienced in these lifts than I am (as have only really dabbled in the powerclean a year or two back, so a relative newb)

The set of powercleans I chucked up was just me blasting it out, as it was the last set - the other ones (which were obstructed - why I didn't post them instead) I reset after each rep and thought about it, so completely agree with you on that point :nod:

Two different schools of thought here re: heavy vs. light, though; I was kinda always of the mind that if you don't know the technique properly, and you force yourself to keep hitting heavier weights, you adapt into those (possibly) incorrect patterns of movement.

John Broz gets his guys to practice the Oly movements with a broomstick handle until he's confident they've got the technique nailed, before giving them a bar, or so I've heard/read - mentioned in this link, but I've read it elsewhere too (interview on bodybuilding.com, from the man himself I think). I figure Powerclean is pretty much an Oly movement, so was heading along the same lines of thought.

On the other hand, I see where you're coming from, and I'm a wee bit conflicted between the two lines of thought.

If I've gathered what you're saying correctly, you're saying that if you've got the technique down at the lower weights, you should start pushing the heavier stuff, even if the quality of your techniqe declines as you move up? If so, I agree on the basis that the technique is there, but the strength to implement it isn't quite there yet. However...

I'm of the opinion I (personally) haven't quite nailed the form on the lighter weights yet, and I'm a little bit worried that if I move up before sorting this tech out, I'm going to learn the form that I'm pushing in the heavier weights (possibly incorrect).

In saying that though, you've also got me thinking that maybe I've got it down enough to start moving on. I think a lot of my problem is getting the hips through (hip activation isn't a strong point of mine!), which I find really easy to do on the light weights, but really difficult when it gets heavier (up around 70 for me). Maybe this is less a motor/technique issue, and more a strength deficiency for this movement?

Either way, you've got me thinking mate! Cheers

I think the plan of attack from here could be to get a bit of both - maybe a few more sets of lighter warmups, followed by the prescribed heavier weights - what do you reckon?

[drizzt]

Oh I see! Lucky you being allowed to drive it and what cool parents you have! Are they looking to adopt any 30 something girls? :pray:

I have admired it a couple of times walking past, don't see too many of them around! 8)

Very lucky! I can check with them, I think they keep applications around, have a few requests from 40-something year old Males lying around, don't get too many female applicants :grin:

Mirin'! :pfft: She does get a lot of looks, actually a pleasure to drive, too 8)

[tinytraps]

D why are you doing powercleans? To eventually get into weightlifting, build upper back or to be more explosive? the reason for doing them will dictate how your form should be.

If you are looking at eventually doing weightlifting getting the tech down pat is a must.

If you want to make your upperback grow not so much technique is needed.

If you just want to get more explosive just get that bar up however way you can.

I do power cleans a) because they look cool doing them in shiny land and b) to become more explosive. Im sure if I actually learned some proper technique my powerclean numbers would jump up but I think keeping them as a jumping deadlift upright row will fit my goal just fine.

I hope this 2c rant has sort of made some sense

[MARS]

I think practising with a broom is a good way to understand the movement (minimising lever lengths etc). It gives you an idea of what you should be doing with the bar but not how do it with the bar.

The point of good technique is that it allows you to lift more weight. Using a weight that can't be muscled up means you will miss the lift if you do it wrong. There are minor things you can get away with but if you analyse the footage after each session you can iron out those flaws without them becoming ingrained.

If you think you need more time to get a feel for the movement then stick with the light weights and maybe experiment with a few heavy singles that you can only rack when you nail the movement.

TT I think you limit yourself yanking on the bar and just getting it up there. If you want big legs you don't Squat the weight up anyway you can so the same methodology should apply to Power Cleans in my opinion. Learning technique is tougher than the other lifts but not impossible.

P.S we should all have a race to a 100kg Power Clean

[drizzt]

D why are you doing powercleans? To eventually get into weightlifting, build upper back or to be more explosive? the reason for doing them will dictate how your form should be.

Good question!

First and foremost; power! They have served me well (even done poorly) in the past as an explosive movement, and really carried-over (I felt) into other disciplines. Speed off the floor for deadlift has been good since I added them in (have never failed to break a deadlift), and I was pretty good at the Overhead Medley in the HB Strongman due to good speed off the floor with the implements (got the 100kg log up, just couldn't press it :doh:).

In saying that, after big issues with form in lots of exercises in the past, I've become more intent on getting it right it where I can. I've gone from no hip thrust at all, to adding one in, and this is the sole component I'm trying to learn. Apart from feeling much more fluid in the movement, I believe I'm adding another carry-over component - the hip-thrust will hopefully help my weak deadlift lockout! I think the hip thrust will also eventually allow me to add more weight to my powerclean.

I don't think the learning process is going to take too long (in the scheme of things), in fact after thinking about it here I feel like I'm only a week or two off feeling "comfortable" enough with the base technique to keep going up. And I also think the payoff once I've got it right is going to be worth it :nod:

Just my thoughts

[drizzt]

I think practising with a broom is a good way to understand the movement (minimising lever lengths etc). It gives you an idea of what you should be doing with the bar but not how do it with the bar.

Good call, hadn't quite thought of the difference between broom/bar before.

The point of good technique is that it allows you to lift more weight. Using a weight that can't be muscled up means you will miss the lift if you do it wrong.

Absolutely, and I actually wrote that in my reply to TT, but edited it out because it was beginning to get a little long :pfft: But this is my reason for wanting to nail technique - in the long run, it's gonna mean more weight shifted :nod:

If you think you need more time to get a feel for the movement then stick with the light weights and maybe experiment with a few heavy singles that you can only rack when you nail the movement.

I honestly think I do, and as of the last session, was kinda what I did anyway (sets of 60 where I was comfortable, then went up to (prescribed) 70 for a set). But as I say, I think I'm close, just not... quite... there yet.

P.S we should all have a race to a 100kg Power Clean

Does it matter how ugly it looks? Because I can get 100 up, but it ain't pretty

[MARS]

Does it matter how ugly it looks? Because I can get 100 up, but it ain't pretty

Well that sucks. I underestimated the transfer from your other lifts

[drizzt]

20.09.11 - 5 x 5 W3/D1

101.5 today, getting a bit heavier for a Monday which is a good sign, eats have been up really consistently lately. Pleased with that.

Rolling solo as M.T pulled a sicky, think I might ask for a medical cert :think:

• Squats (sets, reps, weights)
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 8 @ bar
  1 x 5 @ 100kg
  1 x 3 @ 120kg
  1 x 3 @ 140kg (b)
  1 x 2 @ 160kg (b)
  1 x 1 @ 180kg (b)
  Working
  5 x 5 @ 190kg (b/w)
  
• Bench
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 6 @ 60kg
  Working
  1 x 5 @ 90kg
  1 x 5 @ 100kg
  1 x 5 @ 105kg
  1 x 5 @ 115kg
  1 x 5 @ 120kg
  
• Power Cleans
  Warmups
  bar
  1 x 5 @ 40kg
  Working
  1 x 5 @ 60kg
  1 x 5 @ 65kg
  1 x 5 @ 70kg
  1 x 5 @ 75kg
  1 x 4 @ 80kg (missed 5th)
  
• Dips
  1 x 5 @ +10kg
  1 x 5 @ +15kg
  1 x 5 @ +25kg

Comments

• Squats felt great today, trialled the new belt (hence using a belt earlier than I normally would) and was really pleased with it. Can squeeze into the first notch though, so might need to punch a few extra holes :shifty:
  Other than that, the 5 x 5 @ 190 was all good. 1st set shook out the cobwebs a wee bit, but wasn't too bad. Sets 2-4 were great, nice and deep (OB got set 4 on film)... however, set 5, had a bit of a "clothing malfunction" on the first rep :pfft: Cue me trying not to snigger while I'm squatting, and the clothing continuing to "malfunction" slightly more on every rep So this was my worst set due to not being able to keep the core tight properly, but still battled it out ok. Made the walk home a wee bit awkward though!
  (Actually, I'm glad I was solo for this one - because if M.T saw that, I can guarantee we would've had a good laugh about it, and I probably would've been forced to rack after the first rep :pfft: As it was, I was able to focus ok on the squatting (for the most part) and continue on to finish.)
  Pleased that this is easy, because I distinctly remember these being kinda tough at some points during Smolov (must scroll back through my logs) - 5 x 5 @ 190 was the staple for a few weeks. Really looking forward to 5 x 5 @ 200 next week, will start rolling the camera back out for it...
  
• Bench was really good, the close® grip seems to agree with me more than the wide one I had persisted with for a while, and is WAY easier on the shoulder (touch wood). Haven't had any niggles since the APA comp in July.
  120 was a bit of a grinding set, but finished it off when I wasn't really sure if I could get it beforehand, so I'm happy with that.
  
• Powercleans! I was really happy with them today. 60, 65 and 70 felt really good, pop off the thighs was going well, all awesome.
  75 was where I started to hit a bit of a wall, first 3 were ok, but the last 2 were uggggly. Same with the set at 80, actually felt ok for 3 reps, 4th was horrendous, and the 5th I swung the right arm under but the left arm didn't wanna follow it, so I missed the catch entirely. The pop off the hips wasn't bad, just the arms were a bit fatigued. I'm ok with this though. I took decent little rests between each rep (5-10seconds) to reset and think about the process, and it worked. Everything felt pretty good - think I might go with Mars' suggestion and up the weights where it says to (except for where I miss them, obviously!)
  
• Dips were good, nice and low, 25s were easy.

Done! Roll on assistance tomorrow with some (hopefully) sturdier shorts!

[drizzt]

Pretty grainy pic, but shows some of the damage caused this evening... and kinda illustrates how awkward walking down one of the main streets in Wellington was this evening... :oops:

Thought I'd take a photo of them hanging up, to save everyone the horror of a pic with them on :pfft:

[drizzt]

21.08.11 - Assistance

102.2 today, up there, pleasing.

Actually can't really remember the weights I did today. Came in for the assistance session, but completely forgot the Scottish boys were in again - so space was limited a bit. I did get some stuff out, just flitted around and jumped in on things where I could.

Wee bit of Tri stuff (bar pushdowns, band pushdowns, overhead plate extensions), some upper back (pulldowns), and some calves (standing/seated - supersetted).

Everything was moderately weighted, for 3 sets of 10-15 reps. Was happy to call it a day there.

[OnlyHuman]

Pretty grainy pic, but shows some of the damage caused this evening... and kinda illustrates how awkward walking down one of the main streets in Wellington was this evening... :oops:

Thought I'd take a photo of them hanging up, to save everyone the horror of a pic with them on :pfft:

:clap: