Critique my ULTIMATE SUPPLEMENT STACK V2

[Dontrunwithknives]

Ok here it is, a revised version of my ultimate supplement stack.

Good news, it is 2.21 x cheaper!

Immediatly upon waking, but no more then 30-60mins before breakfast

*Inner Armour SuperQuad Protein - 1scoops

*Optimum Nutrition Vandyl Sulphate - 10mg

*Eat Me L-Carnitine - 1g

With breakfast

*NFS Ultimate Sports Multi - 1pill

*Nordic Naturals Arctic Cod Liver Oil Soft Gels - 1pill

One hour preworkout

*Eat Me AAKG - 3g

*NFS Caffeine Max - 200mg

30mins preworkout

*Inner Armour SuperQuad Protein - 1scoops

*Eat Me Beta Alanine - 2g

*Eat Me L-Carnitine - 1g

*Syn-Tec CarboPlex - 65g

Immediately postwokout

*Inner Armour SuperQuad Protein - 1scoops

*Optimum Nutrition Vandyl Sulphate - 10mg

*Eat Me Beta Alanine - 2g

*Eat Me L-Carnitine - 1g

With lunch

Nordic Naturals Arctic Cod Liver Oil Soft Gels - 1pill

With dinner

*NFS Ultimate Sports Multi - 1pill

*Nordic Naturals Arctic Cod Liver Oil Soft Gels - 1pill

One hour before bed, not within one hour of last meal

*Eat Me AAKG - 3g

*Musashi ZMA+ - 1pill

Immediately before bed

*Inner Armour SuperQuad Protein - 1scoops

Cost

NFS Ultimate Sports Multi (1pill) - $0.48 x2 = $0.96

Eat Me Beta Alanine (2g) - $0.44 x2 = $0.88

Musashi ZMA+ (1pill) - $0.45 x1 = $0.45

Eat Me AAKG (3g) - $0.74 x2 = $1.48

NFS Caffeine Max (1pill) - $0.30 x1 = $0.30

Inner Armour SuperQuad Protein (1scoop) - $1.19 x4 = $4.76

Eat Me L-Carnitine (1g) - $0.29 x3 = $0.87

Optimum Nutrition Vandyl Sulphate (1pill) - $0.19 x2 = $0.38

Syn-Tec CarboPlex (65g) - $1.00 x1 = $1.00

Nordic Naturals Arctic Cod Liver Oil Soft Gels (1pill) - $0.48 x3 = $1.44

$12.52 per day

$87.64 per week

[matt !]

now thats hardcore :shock:

[Dontrunwithknives]

Haha yeh, might take this after I finish the supplements I have now. Getting tired of taking products with lots of different things in them.

[Chemo]

Much more affordable lol

Why vanadyl sulf?

If your using it for an insulin mimetic I think a good dose of L-Luciene is a better mimetic and maybe use cinnamon or cinnamon extract.

Dunno if Vanadyl is more efficient at it or just cheaper to produce :3

Wheres flex at!

[Phedder]

Better, but still seems like a huge waste of money to me. However if you've got it to burn, then go for it. I'd go nuts just trying to remember everything :oops:

[PeterDolan]

What is the carb source of carboplex and how much does it cost for x amount?

[Cameron_R]

What's wrong with real food?

[Dontrunwithknives]

Interesting, just found this information on cinnamon extract.

"Scientists were testing the effects of various foods on blood sugar (glucose) levels. They expected the classic pie to have an adverse effect, but instead they found it actually helped lower blood glucose levels.

The researchers then took their surprising discovery and tested it in a small 60 patient study conducted in Pakistan, reporting in the journal Diabetes Care. All the patients had been treated for type 2, adult onset diabetes for several years and were taking anti-diabetic drugs to increase their insulin output. But they were not yet taking insulin to help process their blood glucose. The subjects were given small doses of cinnamon ranging from as little as a quarter teaspoon to less than 2 teaspoons a day for 40 days.

The results: Not only did the cinnamon reduce their blood sugar levels and increase their natural production of insulin, it lowered their blood cholesterol as well. Even 20 days after the cinnamon treatment had ended, the patients continued to see beneficial effects. "

[Dontrunwithknives]

Better, but still seems like a huge waste of money to me. However if you've got it to burn, then go for it. I'd go nuts just trying to remember everything :oops:

Going to bag everything up, label them and store a months worth.

What is the carb source of carboplex and how much does it cost for x amount?

Syn-Tec CarboPlex (65g) - $1.00

Carbo-Plex is made up of Maltrin® M100, a high quality Maltodextrin made from dent corn and is manufactured by the Grain Processing Corporation USA. Maltodextrins are complex carbohydrates, also known as glucose polymers, derived from corn starch. They are not simple sugars and provide a slow release of energy. They are commonly found in weight gain formulas and meal replacements.

http://www.shotgunsupplements.co.nz/sho ... x+2kg.html

What's wrong with real food?

:pfft: Nothing, going to eat that too!

[TankTeddio]

glad to see its alot more modest than version 1 (still :shock: though)

would drop the AAKG as well, tastes aweful and apparently does not help blood NO levels unless administered intravenously.

[Dontrunwithknives]

glad to see its alot more modest than version 1 (still :shock: though)

would drop the AAKG as well, tastes aweful and apparently does not help blood NO levels unless administered intravenously.

Really? I just found this:

"In one study, the anti-catabolic effects of AAKG were investigated in 14 multiple trauma patients who were highly catabolic and hyper-metabolic. One group of subjects received 20 grams of AAKG per day and showed a significant increase in protein turnover as well as an increase in blood levels of insulin, growth hormone, and free amino acids (glutamine, proline and Arginine) compared to subjects not receiving AAKG supplements."

[PeterDolan]

Meh, I'd go for dextrose, way cheaper

[Phedder]

glad to see its alot more modest than version 1 (still :shock: though)

would drop the AAKG as well, tastes aweful and apparently does not help blood NO levels unless administered intravenously.

Really? I just found this:

"In one study, the anti-catabolic effects of AAKG were investigated in 14 multiple trauma patients who were highly catabolic and hyper-metabolic. One group of subjects received 20 grams of AAKG per day and showed a significant increase in protein turnover as well as an increase in blood levels of insulin, growth hormone, and free amino acids (glutamine, proline and Arginine) compared to subjects not receiving AAKG supplements."

Was it administered to them intravenously? I'd think so. Also, are you a multiple trauma patient...?

[Dontrunwithknives]

glad to see its alot more modest than version 1 (still :shock: though)

would drop the AAKG as well, tastes aweful and apparently does not help blood NO levels unless administered intravenously.

Really? I just found this:

"In one study, the anti-catabolic effects of AAKG were investigated in 14 multiple trauma patients who were highly catabolic and hyper-metabolic. One group of subjects received 20 grams of AAKG per day and showed a significant increase in protein turnover as well as an increase in blood levels of insulin, growth hormone, and free amino acids (glutamine, proline and Arginine) compared to subjects not receiving AAKG supplements."

Was it administered to them intravenously? I'd think so. Also, are you a multiple trauma patient...?

Maybe I am? :pfft:

Where is this proof it only works intravenously?

[Dontrunwithknives]

Meh, I'd go for dextrose, way cheaper

"Dextrose (AKA glucose) is a high GI (glycemic index), fast absorbing type of simple carbohydrate. Dextrose is used by bodybuilders and athletes to induce an insulin spike and replace glycogen in muscle cells which is lost during training."

That's not what I'm trying to do with that supplement. The carboplex is a slow digesting, complex carbohydrate.

[PeterDolan]

If it's being taken 30 mins before your workout, it wont have been digested before your workout.

You should really shop on BB.com, this is alot and will be way cheaper off there

[Dontrunwithknives]

If it's being taken 30 mins before your workout, it wont have been digested before your workout.

You should really shop on BB.com, this is alot and will be way cheaper off there

Don't think it has to be digested before the workout. It digests during the workout providing a slow release of energy, keeping insulin low and steady directing the body to burn fat, not muscle.

Will check out bb.com

[TankTeddio]

Really? I just found this:

"In one study, the anti-catabolic effects of AAKG were investigated in 14 multiple trauma patients who were highly catabolic and hyper-metabolic. One group of subjects received 20 grams of AAKG per day and showed a significant increase in protein turnover as well as an increase in blood levels of insulin, growth hormone, and free amino acids (glutamine, proline and Arginine) compared to subjects not receiving AAKG supplements."

Was it administered to them intravenously? I'd think so. Also, are you a multiple trauma patient...?

Maybe I am? :pfft:

Where is this proof it only works intravenously?

" A controlled study found that intravenous AKG prevented a decline in protein synthesis in the muscles of patients recovering from surgery. For these reasons, it has been speculated that oral AKG supplements might help improve strength or muscle-mass gains by weightlifters, but no research has been done to test this theory.'

its not conclusive proof but its the only one i could remember reading and seems to be done by a non subjective research group. :shrug:

[Phedder]

Really? I just found this:

"In one study, the anti-catabolic effects of AAKG were investigated in 14 multiple trauma patients who were highly catabolic and hyper-metabolic. One group of subjects received 20 grams of AAKG per day and showed a significant increase in protein turnover as well as an increase in blood levels of insulin, growth hormone, and free amino acids (glutamine, proline and Arginine) compared to subjects not receiving AAKG supplements."

Was it administered to them intravenously? I'd think so. Also, are you a multiple trauma patient...?

Maybe I am? :pfft:

Where is this proof it only works intravenously?

Oh I'm not claiming to have any knowledge of AAKG or how it works, but given that the study you provided used trauma patients I'd assume (could well be wrong) that they administered it intravenously. My point is if you're not taking it intravenously, don't rely on studies that did for proof. Find some relevant evidence that involved oral administration.

One of the biggest issues when interpreting studies is the method and subjects, people often read the abstract and think 'sweet, this will be great for me!' When in fact it was studied after a 48 hour fast, intravenously on 70 year old women with extreme burns. (exaggeration but you get the point)

Also, digestion slows down a lot during exercise depending on the intensity. Look up some reading on the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. But basically when you're doing anything strenuous your body doesn't want to waste blood flow to areas that aren't required at that time (digestion etc)

[Phedder]

Really? I just found this:

"In one study, the anti-catabolic effects of AAKG were investigated in 14 multiple trauma patients who were highly catabolic and hyper-metabolic. One group of subjects received 20 grams of AAKG per day and showed a significant increase in protein turnover as well as an increase in blood levels of insulin, growth hormone, and free amino acids (glutamine, proline and Arginine) compared to subjects not receiving AAKG supplements."

Was it administered to them intravenously? I'd think so. Also, are you a multiple trauma patient...?

Maybe I am? :pfft:

Where is this proof it only works intravenously?

Oh I'm not claiming to have any knowledge of AAKG or how it works, but given that the study you provided used trauma patients I'd assume (could well be wrong) that they administered it intravenously. My point is if you're not taking it intravenously, don't rely on studies that did for proof. Find some relevant evidence that involved oral administration.

One of the biggest issues when interpreting studies is the method and subjects, people often read the abstract and think 'sweet, this will be great for me!' When in fact it was studied after a 48 hour fast, intravenously on 70 year old women with extreme burns. (exaggeration but you get the point) and has no relevance to them.

Also, digestion slows down a lot during exercise depending on the intensity. Look up some reading on the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. But basically when you're doing anything strenuous your body doesn't want to waste blood flow to areas that aren't required at that time (digestion etc)

[Dontrunwithknives]

Was it administered to them intravenously? I'd think so. Also, are you a multiple trauma patient...?

Maybe I am? :pfft:

Where is this proof it only works intravenously?

" A controlled study found that intravenous AKG prevented a decline in protein synthesis in the muscles of patients recovering from surgery. For these reasons, it has been speculated that oral AKG supplements might help improve strength or muscle-mass gains by weightlifters, but no research has been done to test this theory.'

its not conclusive proof but its the only one i could remember reading and seems to be done by a non subjective research group. :shrug:

Well what is it that gives you a pump from pre workout supplements? I need to find something to increase NO and AAKG seemed to fit. If there is something else I could use let me know. I'm not droping any products, will look at replacing them with something else though :nod:

[thatwaslight]

AAKG and asprin lol

[TankTeddio]

Maybe I am? :pfft:

Where is this proof it only works intravenously?

" A controlled study found that intravenous AKG prevented a decline in protein synthesis in the muscles of patients recovering from surgery. For these reasons, it has been speculated that oral AKG supplements might help improve strength or muscle-mass gains by weightlifters, but no research has been done to test this theory.'

its not conclusive proof but its the only one i could remember reading and seems to be done by a non subjective research group. :shrug:

Well what is it that gives you a pump from pre workout supplements? I need to find something to increase NO and AAKG seemed to fit. If there is something else I could use let me know. I'm not droping any products, will look at replacing them with something else though :nod:

as a former asthmatic i know that the medication i took made it easier to breath by dilating blood vessels via increasing NO to some degree.

so you could maybe take 50 deep breaths of flexotide before hitting the weights.

but im afraid i cant give you a serious alternative.

[Dontrunwithknives]

" A controlled study found that intravenous AKG prevented a decline in protein synthesis in the muscles of patients recovering from surgery. For these reasons, it has been speculated that oral AKG supplements might help improve strength or muscle-mass gains by weightlifters, but no research has been done to test this theory.'

its not conclusive proof but its the only one i could remember reading and seems to be done by a non subjective research group. :shrug:

Well what is it that gives you a pump from pre workout supplements? I need to find something to increase NO and AAKG seemed to fit. If there is something else I could use let me know. I'm not droping any products, will look at replacing them with something else though :nod:

as a former asthmatic i know that the medication i took made it easier to breath by dilating blood vessels via increasing NO to some degree.

so you could maybe take 50 deep breaths of flexotide before hitting the weights.

but im afraid i cant give you a serious alternative.

Haha yeh somehow I don't think that's a good idea :pfft:

I'm thinking I will replace the AAKG with a preworkout supplement, then I can remove the caffeine pills.

Don't know what to replace the night NO booster with though, it can't have caffeine.