Building muscle with little fat

[Dog Licker]

There's been some research done about this by a bodybuilder in the US called Tom Venuto. He calls this phenomenon (losing fat while gaining muscle) the "holy grail". If you Google "Tom Venuto Holy Grail" then you'll get more info. pop up as well as independent reviews etc. I did get the book and read it (it came free when I got his book Burn the Fat Feed the Muscle), and basically he tested the premise that rather than following the traditional long periods of bulking and cutting, he would shorten the periods into a weekly cycle. He tested different cycles such as one day calorie deficit of 20% followed by 3 days calorie excess of 20% for people focusing on more muscle growth, to one day of calorie excess followed by 3 days of calorie deficit for people focusing more on losing body fat.

His book is full of references to scientific studies (peer reviewed in reputable journals) - quite an interesting read. He goes into a lot of detail about different nutrient ratios, timing of eating throughout the day, the effect this has on different hormones and thus how it affects weight loss or muscle gain. I recall he said that he maintains his body-fat percentage at 9% to 10% out of competition and can continue to put on muscle, and then does cut down for a comp. He said it is much easier to cut down starting from 10% than in the high teens.

I'm only a newbie so can't say this works (although I did take off fat and put on muscle over 6 months while following his burn the fat feed the muscle program - but again this is not unusual for someone who hasn't been training for a year). Just want to point out that there is some research out there - and I do respect that Tom is a stickler for backing up where-ever possible with peer reviewed studies.

After writing all that I suddenly found a review which says it much better than what I attempted. Bloody Murphy's Law. Here it is http://tinyurl.com/4pzw6rg

[Tranq]

i get the best out of my workouts when im completely full. you cant always be full without extra calories so your bound to gain a bit of fat. unless your on gear its going to be hard to stay as full as possible while maintaining a very low BF%

just so that we're on the same page, when i say "full" i mean your muscles completely saturated with glycogen and water.

[Chemo]

Lol I've read a few of those loose fat gain muscle books.

Nice idea, and it works as a first step into weight training, but i don't think you could do that programme again and expect the same results. I did a lean bulk most of 2010, it works but no where near as fast as a proper bulk or something inbetween the two, but then once you put on fat, as you expect, you have to get rid of it. Restrospectivly Something in between or in bursts is a better option than a super lean gain, its a very easy stress free lifestyle eating above maintainance, you go to the gym, weights and progression are far easier. and as an added bonus ive never been sick on a bulk diet

"sure you'll be shredded at 8% bf but like TWL said, you gonna have to be damn strict with diet year round"

A good point and to add to that, you'll see minimal movement in weights and size too.

"Not true, body fat % alters hormone levels"

wanted to say that earlier ><

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/planet32.htm

Would be cool to hear how practical that theory is and if PLrs dont mind that extra estrogen conversion.

[weener lad]

Lee, if you let yourself go to say 15% do you think it would be easier for you to gain muscle? As opposed to being 10%ish?

G'Day Doc

You would think! But I've tried the old bulk with excess calories and it wasn't successful. The other problem is (I believe) for us weight class guys is that if you go to extreme with the bilking you are left trying to lose 15kg to make weight/get condition. More weight equals more dieting, which equals more muscle loss.

Believe me I would like to blow out a bit but it doesn't work, for me :nod:

[PeterDolan]

Too fat or too lean, the gains wouldn't be as good. Well that's how I read it any way

But everyone's different and "optimal" hormone levels will be at a different BF% and it is not the only factor that contributes to hormone levels

[Dr Squat]

Lee, if you let yourself go to say 15% do you think it would be easier for you to gain muscle? As opposed to being 10%ish?

G'Day Doc

You would think! But I've tried the old bulk with excess calories and it wasn't successful. The other problem is (I believe) for us weight class guys is that if you go to extreme with the bilking you are left trying to lose 15kg to make weight/get condition. More weight equals more dieting, which equals more muscle loss.

Believe me I would like to blow out a bit but it doesn't work, for me :nod:

Makes sense.

Fuuny things happen as you get older mate so it may be a different story one day! Also, your inevitable transfer to physique at some point. :nod:

[weener lad]

Fuuny things happen as you get older mate so it may be a different story one day! Also, your inevitable transfer to physique at some point. :nod:

Never a truer word spoken haha