Dieticians and Nutritionists

[Cornfed]

I wondered whether people generally regarded these a valid, useful professions. To me, the whole dietician industry seems like a scam.

For one thing, there seems to be no general agreement within the industry on what constitutes a healthy diet. For every diet recommended by a so-called qualified dietician, you can find the exact opposite diet recommended by another so-called qualified dietician. For another thing, almost none of the recommended diets seem to have any kind of rational or evidential basis. For example, there has been an ad on TV saying that people should eat six servings of whole grains a day. Given that no primates in our evolutionary line have adapted to eat grains, this seems rather indefensible. Even if there were some agreed-upon healthy diet, surely it could simply be written down in a small pamphlet and handed out to people.

I suppose dieticians could be useful for specialized sporting purposes, but in the main the industry seems to be a more lucrative form of PEP work scheme. Is there something I'm missing?

[Marcus]

I think dieticians can offer a lot to people who plainly don't know a lot about eating the right foods.

From a bodybuilding perspective I'd only trust someone with a ton of experience in competition.

[Paul]

I have found nutritionists very helpful for competition and general tweaking of your diet .A good one will take the guess work out of the equation if they have sufficent experince.Diet principals are essentialy the same when bodybuilding ideally tailor made to your body type

[2guns]

one tht definetly knows wat he/she is doing is great and nebody thinkin of competeting should c one first. as long as u stick to the diet, alot of people cheat then bitch tht it didnt work. those r noramally the people who give nutritionalists shit

[Wynton]

Nutritionist's go by the food and nutrition guidelines set out by NZ Health organisations, which is.

Fruit & Veg = 5 + servings

Breads & Cereals = 6 servings esp wholegrains

MIlk & Dairy = 2 servings ( 3 female)

Lean meats, chicken, fish = 1 serving

Fluid = 6-8 cups (1.5 - 2 litres)

Nutritionists are great for people who want advice on having a balanced and healthy diet. If you want one for bodybuilding purposes especially for competitions i'd choose one that has experience with bodybuilders and contest prep. Many of them don't have much experience with contest prep for bodybuilding. From my experience many don't agree or recommend the diets that are required for getting into condition for a bodybuilding comp.

[Cornfed]

Nutritionist's go by the food and nutrition guidelines set out by NZ Health organisations, which is.

Fruit & Veg = 5 + servings

Breads & Cereals = 6 servings esp wholegrains

MIlk & Dairy = 2 servings ( 3 female)

Lean meats, chicken, fish = 1 serving

Fluid = 6-8 cups (1.5 - 2 litres)

Those recommendations appear to be whatever crazy rubbish is fashionable on a given day, but even if they were the provably most healthy diet possible, why can't we just read and implement them ourselves? Why must we pay for people to go through X years of university and the salaries and overheads associated with employing them to tell us about these recommendations?

If you want one for bodybuilding purposes especially for competitions i'd choose one that has experience with bodybuilders and contest prep. Many of them don't have much experience with contest prep for bodybuilding. From my experience many don't agree or recommend the diets that are required for getting into condition for a bodybuilding comp.

If effectiveness in the area is a product of being familiar with contests rather than being a "qualified nutritionist", then once again why go to a nutritionist as opposed to any other experienced person and what is the point of them?

[Wynton]

Those recommendations appear to be whatever crazy rubbish is fashionable on a given day, but even if they were the provably most healthy diet possible, why can't we just read and implement them ourselves? Why must we pay for people to go through X years of university and the salaries and overheads associated with employing them to tell us about these recommendations?

You can read them and implement them yourself and I assume that you are someone that does that. Unfortunately not every one wants to read countless amounts of information about diet and exercise hence why they employ professional's to write up programmes and eating plans for them. Most nutritionists are self employed so I don't know what you mean about their salaries and overheads effecting us, unless you are paying for their services. At the end of the day they can provide a good service to the people that want to use them if you don't want to use them then that's your choice. And yes those recommendations are what contribute to the healthiest diet possible.

If effectiveness in the area is a product of being familiar with contests rather than being a "qualified nutritionist", then once again why go to a nutritionist as opposed to any other experienced person and what is the point of them

Of course the more familiar they are with a certain area the more effective they are going to be, we call these people specialists. They specialise in certain area's. What's the point of them?

Well then what's the point of builders or electritions or plumbers? They provide services to people who want their help who either don't want to do it themselves or can't do it themselves.

Why go to some other experienced person instead of a nutritionist?

Well proably because that nutritionist may not be able to help you in the way that you want them to help you. That doesn't mean that they are useless and not necessary just because you didn't get any benefit's from them.

[Cornfed]

Unfortunately not every one wants to read countless amounts of information about diet and exercise hence why they employ professional's to write up programmes and eating plans for them.

But if they are just implementing recommendations then you wouldn't have to read that many papers; you could just read the recommendations. Or you could ask someone else who had read a lot of papers.

Most nutritionists are self employed so I don't know what you mean about their salaries and overheads effecting us, unless you are paying for their services.

Society in general is allowing resources to be used to support these people, many of which could be used for other purposes if they were, say, on the dole.

At the end of the day they can provide a good service to the people that want to use them

What are you basing this on? What is the evidence that advice from nutritionists is more valuable that advice from any other reasonably well-informed person?

And yes those recommendations are what contribute to the healthiest diet possible.

How would you possibly go about verifying such a statement? You could hardly do controlled tests comparing the recommended diet to all of the infinite number of other possible diets. Is there any logical evolutionary basis as to why the above should be the best diet? For example, the diet recommends drinking milk. No animals in the wild drink milk into adulthood, and in fact they can't since they don't produce lactase beyond a certain age (i.e. they are lactose intolerant). In fact, the allele for lactase persistence only arose in human populations in northern Europe and the Middle East about 6k years ago. Yet the nutritionists would have us believe that not only is drinking milk more healthy than eating foods that we evolved with over millions of years, but that we should even drink the milk of a different species. Is that not rather suspicious and also suspiciously convenient, since we happen to live in a place with a large dairy industry?

Well then what's the point of builders or electritions or plumbers?

There are certain measurable gold standards for building and plumbing work: plumb lines are better than non-plumb lines, square angles are better than unsquare angles, plumbing that doesn't leak is better than plumbing that does etc. Most professional builders and plumbers could meet these standards whereas most laymen could not. The difference is not just a matter of knowledge, but also one of practical experience, which would be difficult to gain other than by doing some sort of course or apprenticeship. Hence it would generally be good to go to qualified tradesmen to get such work done, as the result would generally be demonstrably superior to getting anyone else to do it. Can the same really be said for writing diet programs?

[Marcus]

Nutrition is such a wishy washy subject because different diets work for different people. There are so many variables. Therefore I believe that the recommendations mentioned are an extremely rough guide, if a guide at all. For example I don't like eating bread. It makes me feel like shit.

I think nutritionists do have a place in society however because they have the ability to provide peace of mind to the regular person who doesn't know a hell of a lot about food. I mean, how many people do you know that, since they have learnt you are a bodybuilder or gym goer, have asked you about diet?

[Wynton]

But if they are just implementing recommendations then you wouldn't have to read that many papers; you could just read the recommendations. Or you could ask someone else who had read a lot of papers.

Those recommendations are not set in stone. They use it as a guideline and apply it to people to help with their personal situation. Some people are simply not going to read papers themselves and others may not know other people who have a lot of knowledge. The other thing is some people have medical conditions which means they cannot eat certain food's a random person with X amount of knowledge may not have the knowledge about these certain conditions, therefore they are not suitable to give advice. This is where nutritionists are helpful. They don't only study about recommended diet guidelines. They work with a wide range of people from athletes to obese people to anarexic's. How many anarexic's are going to research for themselves how to gain weight? Not many of them, so they need professional help.

You may have no need for one but some people do.

We'll have to agree to disagree :grin:

There are certain measurable gold standards for building and plumbing work: plumb lines are better than non-plumb lines, square angles are better than unsquare angles, plumbing that doesn't leak is better than plumbing that does etc. Most professional builders and plumbers could meet these standards whereas most laymen could not. The difference is not just a matter of knowledge, but also one of practical experience, which would be difficult to gain other than by doing some sort of course or apprenticeship. Hence it would generally be good to go to qualified tradesmen to get such work done, as the result would generally be demonstrably superior to getting anyone else to do it. Can the same really be said for writing diet programs?

Sorry I didn't mean using them instead of building yourself I was using it as an example of specialisation, while those people will have knowledge in all area's of building, plumbing and electrical work you would employ each one to do the specific job that is required. Thats why I think a nutritionist who has experience with bodybuilding will give better results than one without that experience, even if their qualifications are the same.

[poos_n_wees]

yup. bodybuilding is a weird sport in that there are no set rules or guidelines in regards to nutrition... its like you learn by experience. what worked for one person may not work for the next.

Some nutritionists are good and some are crap. No one knows your body better than you do, so if you're watching what you eat (ie. writing everything you eat and seeing how your body reacts to these foods over a period of time) you don't need a nutritionist (imo). If you're preparing for a bodybuilding competition though, I think it helps to have someone (preferable a person thats had some experience) helping you out with your diet. It can be a pretty daunting task to count calories/watch your macros when you're in a depleted state (ie. IT SUCKS) so its nice to just have someone watching your back and doing all the thinking for you (and kicking your butt when you need it)