PEDs and Pros

[Chemo]

After one of my previous posts, Gycerol vs Glucose

Nate mentioned an interesting fact that glycerol was banned because it can mask AAS/PEDs, and it got me thinking.

How do pro athletes mask the use of banned substances?

[nate225]

After one of my previous posts, Gycerol vs Glucose

Nate mentioned an interesting fact that glycerol was banned because it can mask AAS/PEDs, and it got me thinking.

How do pro athletes mask the use of banned substances?

Many don't..... I think most masking agents are easy enough to pick up, probenicid, diruetics etc, with the high standard of WADA testing.

I would suggest at elite level short acting compounds that leave no long term metabolites would be the norm, hoping to not get picked up in an OCT. Talking mainly short T esters, peptides, slin, stimulants etc.

The very elite could likely have a BALCO type arrangement with designer compounds not yet picked up by testing. However WADA (or labs) now keep samples, so if a compound is discovered & a test to detect that compound is developed they can / will retrospectively test samples (up to 5 years from memory?).

This is just my guess of whats happening out there, my biochemist pal may know more.

Always pays to remember that not all elite athletes use PED's, BBers probably get a wee bit of a slanted view of this one when they consider the elite / pros in their own sport.

[Chemo]

Interesting. When I think AAS I think Rugby league and MMA lol not really bodybuilding

When considering the use of AAS the shorter esters looked much more appealing, as some can be detected for up to 18 months.

Made me wonder if people still used these and masked it somehow.

[nate225]

Interesting. When I think AAS I think Rugby league and MMA lol not really bodybuilding

When considering the use of AAS the shorter esters looked much more appealing, as some can be detected for up to 18 months.

Made me wonder if people still used these and masked it somehow.

T esters can only be detected whilst they are throwing out your T:E ratio (now 3:1 from memory). We are talking weeks to a few months max here. Then & only then the labs look at carbon isotopes to confirm exogenous T has been used.

18 months is a figure that would only apply to something producing metabolites not found naturally occurring in the body (nandrolones, boldenones, trens, stan, some of the pre-hormone formulations) and 18 months is a bit of a stretch (according to a toxicologist involved in anti-doping).

It's definately a game of cat & mouse with new stuff being invented & labs playing catchup or relying on tip offs (as seem with "the clear"). Can't say I'd want to run the gauntlet, it'd be a case of waiting to get caught. The WADA guys are slowly making inroads, but it seems a hopeless battle in some sports/countries.

[Mrbig]

also remember not everyone gets tested there are many athletes who fly under the rader

[Chemo]

True, im sure some top level athletes would be allowed, whatever brings in the money huh. I am quite worried about my use of novedex XT I hope that doesnt linger around my system too long.

[Mrbig]

yea thats why novedex xt was pulled because it will give you a false positive test because you will have naturally high levels because it raises your free testosterone naturally

for how long its in your system im not sure but i would say it wouldnt be too long

[nate225]

yea thats why novedex xt was pulled because it will give you a false positive test because you will have naturally high levels because it raises your free testosterone naturally

for how long its in your system im not sure but i would say it wouldnt be too long

That shouldn't matter even if it goes above the T:E ratio (assuming it does actually raise T & doesn't elevate E also?) as the carbon isotope test would show the T to be endogenous. All moot however if the novedex xt has banned substances in it that would be picked up.

[Mrbig]

yea thats why novedex xt was pulled because it will give you a false positive test because you will have naturally high levels because it raises your free testosterone naturally

for how long its in your system im not sure but i would say it wouldnt be too long

That shouldn't matter even if it goes above the T:E ratio (assuming it does actually raise T & doesn't elevate E also?) as the carbon isotope test would show the T to be endogenous. All moot however if the novedex xt has banned substances in it that would be picked up.

I was told by the gaspari rep az to why its being pulled so there may be more to it but it sucks its gone it was a wicked product

[nate225]

yea thats why novedex xt was pulled because it will give you a false positive test because you will have naturally high levels because it raises your free testosterone naturally

for how long its in your system im not sure but i would say it wouldnt be too long

That shouldn't matter even if it goes above the T:E ratio (assuming it does actually raise T & doesn't elevate E also?) as the carbon isotope test would show the T to be endogenous. All moot however if the novedex xt has banned substances in it that would be picked up.

I was told by the gaspari rep az to why its being pulled so there may be more to it but it sucks its gone it was a wicked product

Potentially a pre-hormone (or DHEA like compound) could give a fail on the isotope testing, as the basis of this (very simplistically) is that the endogenous T carbon molecules are slightly different to exogenous T carbons. I assume any T made endogenously using a man made pre-cursor compound would differ also.

[Mrbig]

yea he said because the test produced comes from the body endogenously thats why its a false positive so not an actual failed test just that the person has abnormally high T levels

[musclenz]

That shouldn't matter even if it goes above the T:E ratio (assuming it does actually raise T & doesn't elevate E also?) as the carbon isotope test would show the T to be endogenous. All moot however if the novedex xt has banned substances in it that would be picked up.

I was told by the gaspari rep az to why its being pulled so there may be more to it but it sucks its gone it was a wicked product

Potentially a pre-hormone (or DHEA like compound) could give a fail on the isotope testing, as the basis of this (very simplistically) is that the endogenous T carbon molecules are slightly different to exogenous T carbons. I assume any T made endogenously using a man made pre-cursor compound would differ also.

Very interesting. Good post Nate. You are indeed one our the sites best bio-chemists :grin:

[nate225]

I was told by the gaspari rep az to why its being pulled so there may be more to it but it sucks its gone it was a wicked product

Potentially a pre-hormone (or DHEA like compound) could give a fail on the isotope testing, as the basis of this (very simplistically) is that the endogenous T carbon molecules are slightly different to exogenous T carbons. I assume any T made endogenously using a man made pre-cursor compound would differ also.

Very interesting. Good post Nate. You are indeed one our the sites best bio-chemists :grin:

LOL - just a shaman like yourself big guy!

Got to admit I'd love to study more biochem, our mate in Akld is the man though! :nod:

[Daz69]

Interesting. When I think AAS I think Rugby league and MMA lol not really bodybuilding

When considering the use of AAS the shorter esters looked much more appealing, as some can be detected for up to 18 months.

Made me wonder if people still used these and masked it somehow.

Hi Chemo....

Might I assume your looking to go in the ring on gear..?

But you don't want to get caught....

:pfft: :pfft: :pfft:

I remember several years ago one of the MMA guys at our gym (well his gym actually).... Telling me about the different types of gear they used off season & then what they switched to in the days leading up to fights...

They did supposibly use a shorter ester right before a fight, he reconed it was in & out of your system in days/hours...???? (but I can't comment)..??

There were a couple they used, depending how close they were to a fight, but I can't remember what the hell they were... Sorry..!!

Viromone might be one, which is a propionate with a 2-3 week detection time.....

Testosterone suspension might be the one they used in-season, with a detection time supposibly +/- 1 day.....

Its popular with MMA, & has been known to be injected up to 3 times a day & even on fight days.. But its apparently painfull, but great in the short term.... (if kicking the shite out of someone is your thing)... :grin:

I've not seen him in about 4 years but he's on Facebook so I'll send him a message & see if he responds..............

But, Hey..!!! Wouldn't that be cheating...???

[Chemo]

Ha, I gotta admit I am fascinated with the effects of PEDs on my training but I wouldn't go as far as pinning up on fight day! I think the gear would have made the prior training sufficient to be called cheating ha.

The question arose out of a bit of a worry with WADAs disapproval of the OTC novedex and DMAA, then just general curiosity.

I totally agree with Nates post;

"Got to admit I'd love to study more biochem, our mate in Akld is the man though"

Just the academic side of it is interesting.

[Daz69]

Ha, I gotta admit I am fascinated with the effects of PEDs on my training but I wouldn't go as far as pinning up on fight day!

I'd love to see your opponants face if you pinned between rounds....

"Errr excuse me Ref, were a little short on Testosterone here, would you mind".. :pfft: :pfft: :pfft:

I wonder if its in the rule book...???? :grin:

[Riccardo]

Two words... Cheque-Drops

:pfft:

[goku_kakarot77]

Two words... Cheque-Drops

:pfft:

^^^ yup lol mibolerone :clap:

[musclenz]

Two words... Cheque-Drops

:pfft:

Plus 200mg Oxymetholone (Anapolon)

[nate225]

Two words... Cheque-Drops

:pfft:

Plus 200mg Oxymetholone (Anapolon)

Agression would be on point, however if tested a two year ban would be most hard to swallow on that does of androgen!!

With regards to anti-doping test dodgers, I'd suspect T-Propianate & T-Suspension would be favourites due to clearance times & no metabolites. Interesting to see commentary from the NZL WADA rep on the practise of 'micro-dosing'.

I wonder if any big time athletes have funded a Testosterone compound with identical carbon isotopes to endogenous T yet?

Would be pretty much untouchable - although the T:E ratio would be out (unless exogenous epitestosterone was also used, note there is an upper limit for this as well) the confirmatory would show the (exogenous) T to be of endogenous origin...........

Shit if you can dream it, its probably already being done.

WADA have certainly got a job trying to keep up with things, will be interesting to see how the Commonwealths pan out. Hopefully our boys and girls are clean after Adam Stewarts pre-Games shocker.

[Chemo]

Never heard of these steroids before until now, had a quick read up from steroid.com

"Cheque Drops are extremely potent, certainly one of the most potent androgens known to man. According to the manufacturer, "When compared to testosterone, it is 5.9 times more potent as an anabolic agent and 2.5 times more potent as an androgen." The most probable usage for Cheque Drops is for administration to athletes 30 to 40 minutes prior to an event that requires extreme aggression and adrenaline"

Damn these would be fun to try, seems like a once in a blue moon type of thing, it stops LH ..

and Anapolon = anadrol?

"WADA have certainly got a job trying to keep up with things, will be interesting to see how the Commonwealths pan out"

yeah youd think it would be a lost cause with all the new substances made for athletes,good on em for trying though

[Daz69]

Two words... Cheque-Drops

:pfft:

Plus 200mg Oxymetholone (Anapolon)

Liver Transplant...................!!!!

:pfft: :pfft: :pfft: