Christchurch Spoilt

[Jigga]

"Never forget where you came from"

[deeepsouth_nz]

The WHOLE point of this thread has gone wayyyy off topic - I believe it was about show numbers BUT in the same breath.... not to say the certain few that were present and competed weren't in great shape, as they will always present themselves regardless.

Lots of ignorance and stupid comments by those that dont...and those that should know better re exactly what criteria is involved on a competitive bodybuilding stage :roll: :roll:

[Dr Squat]

The WHOLE point of this thread has gone wayyyy off topic - I believe it was about show numbers BUT in the same breath.... not to say the certain few that were present and competed weren't in great shape, as they will always present themselves regardless.

Lots of ignorance and stupid comments by those that dont...and those that should know better re exactly what criteria is involved on a competitive bodybuilding stage :roll: :roll:

Good healthy debate I would have thought and broadly related to the topic. It is a forum after all and the whole idea is to provide an opportunity for opinions to be expressed.

Just because you believe something, this doesn't mean you're right and others are wrong. This would be ignorant and stupid. Open up your mind and appreciate that others hold an alternate view. I still maintain it must be difficult to judge something that disappears when it turns side on. But just because I think this, it doesn't mean I am right.

[tomsammce]

Lol @ dissapears when turn side ways! Wish that was true I'd turn my missus sideways lol

[musclenz]

The WHOLE point of this thread has gone wayyyy off topic - I believe it was about show numbers BUT in the same breath.... not to say the certain few that were present and competed weren't in great shape, as they will always present themselves regardless.

Lots of ignorance and stupid comments by those that dont...and those that should know better re exactly what criteria is involved on a competitive bodybuilding stage :roll: :roll:

Good healthy debate I would have thought and broadly related to the topic. It is a forum after all and the whole idea is to provide an opportunity for opinions to be expressed.

Just because you believe something, this doesn't mean you're right and others are wrong. This would be ignorant and stupid. Open up your mind and appreciate that others hold an alternate view. I still maintain it must be difficult to judge something that disappears when it turns side on. But just because I think this, it doesn't mean I am right.

Werehave I heard that before :pfft:

[nate225]

The WHOLE point of this thread has gone wayyyy off topic - I believe it was about show numbers BUT in the same breath.... not to say the certain few that were present and competed weren't in great shape, as they will always present themselves regardless.

Lots of ignorance and stupid comments by those that dont...and those that should know better re exactly what criteria is involved on a competitive bodybuilding stage :roll: :roll:

Good healthy debate I would have thought and broadly related to the topic. It is a forum after all and the whole idea is to provide an opportunity for opinions to be expressed.

Just because you believe something, this doesn't mean you're right and others are wrong. This would be ignorant and stupid. Open up your mind and appreciate that others hold an alternate view. I still maintain it must be difficult to judge something that disappears when it turns side on. But just because I think this, it doesn't mean I am right.

Werehave I heard that before :pfft:

We have gone a bit off topic but as Doc says its all valid in terms of debating views on show winners / quality.

With regards to the above comments I have to say (and I'm sure I've stated it before on here in another thread) I think Daniel Hibbs has a fantastic physique. However it is not one that should win a National title in a non-testing BBing organisation if a) the judging was spot on, or b) the quality of HW's/Light HW's was any good.

I can't remember who was on stage that year, but looking at past competitive BBers from NZFBB (just some names from memory - Rhys, Smith, Debenham, Woods, MacIntyre, Pieterse, Kingsnorth, Johns, Alsop-Smith, O'Grady, Moussawi, Stewart, and lots more, not to mention NABBA guys like Anderson etc) you wouldn't think it would be possible for a guy of Daniel's size to win an Overall title, despite his conditioning.

Just my thoughts.

Nate

[Dr Squat]

Good healthy debate I would have thought and broadly related to the topic. It is a forum after all and the whole idea is to provide an opportunity for opinions to be expressed.

Just because you believe something, this doesn't mean you're right and others are wrong. This would be ignorant and stupid. Open up your mind and appreciate that others hold an alternate view. I still maintain it must be difficult to judge something that disappears when it turns side on. But just because I think this, it doesn't mean I am right.

Werehave I heard that before :pfft:

We have gone a bit off topic but as Doc says its all valid in terms of debating views on show winners / quality.

With regards to the above comments I have to say (and I'm sure I've stated it before on here in another thread) I think Daniel Hibbs has a fantastic physique. However it is not one that should win a National title in a non-testing BBing organisation if a) the judging was spot on, or b) the quality of HW's/Light HW's was any good.

I can't remember who was on stage that year, but looking at past competitive BBers from NZFBB (just some names from memory - Rhys, Smith, Debenham, Woods, MacIntyre, Pieterse, Kingsnorth, Johns, Alsop-Smith, O'Grady, Moussawi, Stewart, and lots more, not to mention NABBA guys like Anderson etc) you wouldn't think it would be possible for a guy of Daniel's size to win an Overall title, despite his conditioning.

Just my thoughts.

Nate

I don't know the answer mate but I respect your opionion. Agreed, we are probably a little off topic. The original post was about Christchurch being spolit with two very fine shows with lots of competitors. I think we should be careful and remember it's not necessarily about "bums on seats" (or "ribs on stage") when assessing quality.

[tomsammce]

if you paid $35 to get into the show it probably is lol

[nate225]

Werehave I heard that before :pfft:

We have gone a bit off topic but as Doc says its all valid in terms of debating views on show winners / quality.

With regards to the above comments I have to say (and I'm sure I've stated it before on here in another thread) I think Daniel Hibbs has a fantastic physique. However it is not one that should win a National title in a non-testing BBing organisation if a) the judging was spot on, or b) the quality of HW's/Light HW's was any good.

I can't remember who was on stage that year, but looking at past competitive BBers from NZFBB (just some names from memory - Rhys, Smith, Debenham, Woods, MacIntyre, Pieterse, Kingsnorth, Johns, Alsop-Smith, O'Grady, Moussawi, Stewart, and lots more, not to mention NABBA guys like Anderson etc) you wouldn't think it would be possible for a guy of Daniel's size to win an Overall title, despite his conditioning.

Just my thoughts.

Nate

I don't know the answer mate but I respect your opionion. Agreed, we are probably a little off topic. The original post was about Christchurch being spolit with two very fine shows with lots of competitors. I think we should be careful and remember it's not necessarily about "bums on seats" (or "ribs on stage") when assessing quality.

Until they use a dexa scanner to determine muscle mass / fat % & some mathmatical formula to determine symmetry BBing will always be subjective. Thats why you & I stick with SM & PLing respectively huh Doc?! You either lift more than the next man or you don't.... black n white; objectivity at its finest! :grin:

What I will say is that Chch remains a stronghold of NZL BBing, and is perhaps the heart of NZ BBing in terms of competitor numbers & quality IMHO. (although I may just think that after my prior experience in 97, when I was convinced I'd clean up at the SI Champs having only attended NI shows.....reality check when I placed 6th! :pfft: :grin: ).

[tomsammce]

What I will say is that Chch remains a stronghold of NZL BBing, and is perhaps the heart of NZ BBing in terms of competitor numbers & quality IMHO.

inbreds mate, theyre DNA is freakish. lol

[oldfella]

inbreds mate

Be nice. :pfft:

I've been to the little island off the Blenheim coast. Few more "Deliverance" people up there. :pfft:

[Mike Zero]

Thats why you & I stick with SM & PLing respectively huh Doc?!

Good idea for a Tui billboard :wink:

[PeterDolan]

Thats why you & I stick with SM & PLing respectively huh Doc?!

Good idea for a Tui billboard :wink:

UH OH haha

[Dr Squat]

Thats why you & I stick with SM & PLing respectively huh Doc?!

Good idea for a Tui billboard :wink:

I'm a powerbuilder mate! :oops:

Just not sure what that actually means? Possible definition- non competitive at both, lacking talent and in need of a hug.

[PeterDolan]

Thats why you & I stick with SM & PLing respectively huh Doc?!

Good idea for a Tui billboard :wink:

I'm a powerbuilder mate! :oops:

Just not sure what that actually means? Possible definition- non competitive at both, lacking talent and in need of a hug.

Sounds more like a mid life crisis and in need of a massage with happy endings

[Dr Squat]

Good idea for a Tui billboard :wink:

I'm a powerbuilder mate! :oops:

Just not sure what that actually means? Possible definition- non competitive at both, lacking talent and in need of a hug.

Sounds more like a mid life crisis and in need of a massage with happy endings

Too young for a midlife crisis mate. However your other suggestion has merit.

[PeterDolan]

I'm a powerbuilder mate! :oops:

Just not sure what that actually means? Possible definition- non competitive at both, lacking talent and in need of a hug.

Sounds more like a mid life crisis and in need of a massage with happy endings

Too young for a midlife crisis mate. However your other suggestion has merit.

I heard "thai massage" is the happiest :grin:

[genetic freek]

We have gone a bit off topic but as Doc says its all valid in terms of debating views on show winners / quality.

With regards to the above comments I have to say (and I'm sure I've stated it before on here in another thread) I think Daniel Hibbs has a fantastic physique. However it is not one that should win a National title in a non-testing BBing organisation if a) the judging was spot on, or b) the quality of HW's/Light HW's was any good.

I can't remember who was on stage that year, but looking at past competitive BBers from NZFBB (just some names from memory - Rhys, Smith, Debenham, Woods, MacIntyre, Pieterse, Kingsnorth, Johns, Alsop-Smith, O'Grady, Moussawi, Stewart, and lots more, not to mention NABBA guys like Anderson etc) you wouldn't think it would be possible for a guy of Daniel's size to win an Overall title, despite his conditioning.

Just my thoughts.

Nate

I don't know the answer mate but I respect your opionion. Agreed, we are probably a little off topic. The original post was about Christchurch being spolit with two very fine shows with lots of competitors. I think we should be careful and remember it's not necessarily about "bums on seats" (or "ribs on stage") when assessing quality.

Until they use a dexa scanner to determine muscle mass / fat % & some mathmatical formula to determine symmetry BBing will always be subjective. Thats why you & I stick with SM & PLing respectively huh Doc?! You either lift more than the next man or you don't.... black n white; objectivity at its finest! :grin:

What I will say is that Chch remains a stronghold of NZL BBing, and is perhaps the heart of NZ BBing in terms of competitor numbers & quality IMHO. (although I may just think that after my prior experience in 97, when [/b]I was convinced I'd clean up at the SI Champs having only attended NI shows.....reality check when I placed 6th![ :pfft: :grin: ).

Oh ya poor thing, did Darren Follow ya down here?

[bigmd]

Good healthy debate I would have thought and broadly related to the topic. It is a forum after all and the whole idea is to provide an opportunity for opinions to be expressed.

Just because you believe something, this doesn't mean you're right and others are wrong. This would be ignorant and stupid. Open up your mind and appreciate that others hold an alternate view. I still maintain it must be difficult to judge something that disappears when it turns side on. But just because I think this, it doesn't mean I am right.

Werehave I heard that before :pfft:

We have gone a bit off topic but as Doc says its all valid in terms of debating views on show winners / quality.

With regards to the above comments I have to say (and I'm sure I've stated it before on here in another thread) I think Daniel Hibbs has a fantastic physique. However it is not one that should win a National title in a non-testing BBing organisation if a) the judging was spot on, or b) the quality of HW's/Light HW's was any good.

I can't remember who was on stage that year, but looking at past competitive BBers from NZFBB (just some names from memory - Rhys, Smith, Debenham, Woods, MacIntyre, Pieterse, Kingsnorth, Johns, Alsop-Smith, O'Grady, Moussawi, Stewart, and lots more, not to mention NABBA guys like Anderson etc) you wouldn't think it would be possible for a guy of Daniel's size to win an Overall title, despite his conditioning.

Just my thoughts.

Nate

One of the names you have listed above was on stage when DH won the nationals.

And as someone who has competed against DH a number of times for the Overall Tiltle (infact every time i have been going for it) DH has always been the competitor right on my tail.

Granted if he was the only sub 70kg competitor in a line up of O 90kg competitors he MAY not stand out for the right reasons, but when you have only one from each weight category, the lack of size does not play such a big part when judging.

[jimjim83]

Werehave I heard that before :pfft:

We have gone a bit off topic but as Doc says its all valid in terms of debating views on show winners / quality.

With regards to the above comments I have to say (and I'm sure I've stated it before on here in another thread) I think Daniel Hibbs has a fantastic physique. However it is not one that should win a National title in a non-testing BBing organisation if a) the judging was spot on, or b) the quality of HW's/Light HW's was any good.

I can't remember who was on stage that year, but looking at past competitive BBers from NZFBB (just some names from memory - Rhys, Smith, Debenham, Woods, MacIntyre, Pieterse, Kingsnorth, Johns, Alsop-Smith, O'Grady, Moussawi, Stewart, and lots more, not to mention NABBA guys like Anderson etc) you wouldn't think it would be possible for a guy of Daniel's size to win an Overall title, despite his conditioning.

Just my thoughts.

Nate

One of the names you have listed above was on stage when DH won the nationals.

And as someone who has competed against DH a number of times for the Overall Tiltle (infact every time i have been going for it) DH has always been the competitor right on my tail.

Granted if he was the only sub 70kg competitor in a line up of O 90kg competitors he MAY not stand out for the right reasons, but when you have only one from each weight category, the lack of size does not play such a big part when judging.

If the guys who weigh 90+ kgs are being out muscled by somebody who is sub 70kgs thy are doing something wrong!

[rigger]

You will find that a lot of overall Mr NZ's over the years may not weigh quite as much as you think. I believe last time Mike D won he was around 85k, Mike Kingsnorth around 85k and myself 84.5k. Mark Rainbow wasn't a giant nor multi winner Joe Ulberg. I also think many of the Pro's ( Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler excluded) stetch the truth somewhat when stating what they weigh. Look at Ronnie Rockel as an example. He is not a big guy yet on stage looks amazing. Any champion bodybuilder will look fantastic on stage but does not necessarily weigh real heavy. I think most non competitive bodybuilders over emphisize weight and maybe thats why they never get into the shape they want. With most big guys if you strip all the fat off and got them down under 4% bodyfat they may be suprised how little they weigh on the scales. Its all about how big and classy you look on stage not on the scales. Just an opinion. Phil K

[tomsammce]

You will find that a lot of overall Mr NZ's over the years may not weigh quite as much as you think. I believe last time Mike D won he was around 85k, Mike Kingsnorth around 85k and myself 84.5k. Mark Rainbow wasn't a giant nor multi winner Joe Ulberg. I also think many of the Pro's ( Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler excluded) stetch the truth somewhat when stating what they weigh. Look at Ronnie Rockel as an example. He is not a big guy yet on stage looks amazing. Any champion bodybuilder will look fantastic on stage but does not necessarily weigh real heavy. I think most non competitive bodybuilders over emphisize weight and maybe thats why they never get into the shape they want. With most big guys if you strip all the fat off and got them down under 4% bodyfat they may be suprised how little they weigh on the scales. Its all about how big and classy you look on stage not on the scales. Just an opinion. Phil K

agree fully.

[thatwaslight]

(or "ribs on stage")

LMAO!!

[musclenz]

You will find that a lot of overall Mr NZ's over the years may not weigh quite as much as you think. I believe last time Mike D won he was around 85k, Mike Kingsnorth around 85k and myself 84.5k. Mark Rainbow wasn't a giant nor multi winner Joe Ulberg. I also think many of the Pro's ( Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler excluded) stetch the truth somewhat when stating what they weigh. Look at Ronnie Rockel as an example. He is not a big guy yet on stage looks amazing. Any champion bodybuilder will look fantastic on stage but does not necessarily weigh real heavy. I think most non competitive bodybuilders over emphisize weight and maybe thats why they never get into the shape they want. With most big guys if you strip all the fat off and got them down under 4% bodyfat they may be suprised how little they weigh on the scales. Its all about how big and classy you look on stage not on the scales. Just an opinion. Phil K

Yes great post Phil. Its been said that "Its not what you weigh on stage, Its what people think you weigh" . Bodybuilding is an illusion after all. Now go & knock them dead at the Universe - Over 50's :grin:

[nate225]

You will find that a lot of overall Mr NZ's over the years may not weigh quite as much as you think. I believe last time Mike D won he was around 85k, Mike Kingsnorth around 85k and myself 84.5k. Mark Rainbow wasn't a giant nor multi winner Joe Ulberg. I also think many of the Pro's ( Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler excluded) stetch the truth somewhat when stating what they weigh. Look at Ronnie Rockel as an example. He is not a big guy yet on stage looks amazing. Any champion bodybuilder will look fantastic on stage but does not necessarily weigh real heavy. I think most non competitive bodybuilders over emphisize weight and maybe thats why they never get into the shape they want. With most big guys if you strip all the fat off and got them down under 4% bodyfat they may be suprised how little they weigh on the scales. Its all about how big and classy you look on stage not on the scales. Just an opinion. Phil K

Yes great post Phil. Its been said that "Its not what you weigh on stage, Its what people think you weigh" . Bodybuilding is an illusion after all. Now go & knock them dead at the Universe - Over 50's :grin:

Good points Phil, similar to a quote here on one members signature from Philly N - something like "its not how heavy you are, its how heavy you look".

That said there is a big difference between mid eighties on stage & sub seventy. And whether I agree or not, one of the members commented about a 'lack of back'. I guess at such a small bodyweight you can't have it all huh? I've seen some very very good lightweight bodybuilders, but very few of them can match up thickness wise to a good HW or LHW. Same as in most sports I guess - a good big man should always beat a good little man. Being the latter I know that lesson very well when the 130 - 200kg Strongmen guys kick my ass! :grin:

Best of luck at the Universe Phil - let's see some silverware in the trophy cupboard eh?! :nod: