insomnia

[HumanPerformance]

:pfft: at the GHB comments.

Not a winner Daz, although it gives great recovery it is now a class B drug in NZL, making it up there with Cannabis Oil, Hashish, Morphine, Opium, Ecstasy and many Amphetamine types substances. Possession - up to 3 months jail and/or $500 fine, supply - up to 14 years imprisonment (Note BK got 10 years from memory).

It seems to have fucked over quite a few BBers who started out using it to sleep only. Although many have used this successfully without addiction it might be wise to read the book BK's story is in before diving into this one. :nod:

GHB is now legal and is sold as a perscription medicine. It is used by hundreds of thousands of people (includind here in NZ) every day under the advice from thier doctors. I talk about it in this post-

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8250&p=168348&hilit=+GHB#p168348

[jimjim83]

if our governments could get away with making billions on taxes from selling ecstacy then it also would be legal.......

Actually there could be a change in the status of MDMA due to the fact that it has been recognised as an effective treatment of PTS. I remember a news article some months ago acknowledging that it had been used to treat soldiers returning from heavy fighting in the ME.

link:

http://www.military.com/news/article/pa ... tment.html

“I think it’s especially helpful for Soldiers, or someone who comes from a hard or tough background, because this is just the opposite,” the Ranger said. “It’s a soft, compassionate loving drug. You lie down, listen to some relaxing music and can really connect with your emotions.”

I don't condon listening to relaxing music ..... drop some unst on the deck and hit the slant on the crossover I say :jive: :rockout: :dancing: :kiss:

how is this a bad thing .... :grin:

Is it just me or does the dancing guy look like gym rat?!

[nate225]

:pfft: at the GHB comments.

Not a winner Daz, although it gives great recovery it is now a class B drug in NZL, making it up there with Cannabis Oil, Hashish, Morphine, Opium, Ecstasy and many Amphetamine types substances. Possession - up to 3 months jail and/or $500 fine, supply - up to 14 years imprisonment (Note BK got 10 years from memory).

It seems to have fucked over quite a few BBers who started out using it to sleep only. Although many have used this successfully without addiction it might be wise to read the book BK's story is in before diving into this one. :nod:

GHB is now legal and is sold as a perscription medicine. It is used by hundreds of thousands of people (includind here in NZ) every day under the advice from thier doctors. I talk about it in this post-

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8250&p=168348&hilit=+GHB#p168348

In NZL:

Due to the availability of GHB in New Zealand, and as a temporary measure in 2000, sodium oxybate (GHB's sodium salt) was scheduled under the Medicines Act 1981.

GHB is scheduled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 as a Class B drug under part 2. Penalties include up to 14 years imprisonment for importation, manufacture, or supply of GHB, up to 10 years imprisonment for conspiracy to commit an offence and up to three months imprisonment or a $500 fine, or both, for possession of GHB.

[HumanPerformance]

:pfft: at the GHB comments.

Not a winner Daz, although it gives great recovery it is now a class B drug in NZL, making it up there with Cannabis Oil, Hashish, Morphine, Opium, Ecstasy and many Amphetamine types substances. Possession - up to 3 months jail and/or $500 fine, supply - up to 14 years imprisonment (Note BK got 10 years from memory).

It seems to have fucked over quite a few BBers who started out using it to sleep only. Although many have used this successfully without addiction it might be wise to read the book BK's story is in before diving into this one. :nod:

GHB is now legal and is sold as a perscription medicine. It is used by hundreds of thousands of people (includind here in NZ) every day under the advice from thier doctors. I talk about it in this post-

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8250&p=168348&hilit=+GHB#p168348

In NZL:

Due to the availability of GHB in New Zealand, and as a temporary measure in 2000, sodium oxybate (GHB's sodium salt) was scheduled under the Medicines Act 1981.

GHB is scheduled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 as a Class B drug under part 2. Penalties include up to 14 years imprisonment for importation, manufacture, or supply of GHB, up to 10 years imprisonment for conspiracy to commit an offence and up to three months imprisonment or a $500 fine, or both, for possession of GHB.

Yeah thats what it was classed as but no longer is.

As I say in my other post (via the link) GHB is the only substance to have gone from a class B banned substance to being completely re-classified as a prescription medicine. So in the in the time I first new of people taking it (about 17 years ago) it has gone from a over the counter completely leagal supplement to a class B banned substance to now a legal "medicine" availble on prescription .

[nate225]

GHB is now legal and is sold as a perscription medicine. It is used by hundreds of thousands of people (includind here in NZ) every day under the advice from thier doctors. I talk about it in this post-

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8250&p=168348&hilit=+GHB#p168348

In NZL:

Due to the availability of GHB in New Zealand, and as a temporary measure in 2000, sodium oxybate (GHB's sodium salt) was scheduled under the Medicines Act 1981.

GHB is scheduled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 as a Class B drug under part 2. Penalties include up to 14 years imprisonment for importation, manufacture, or supply of GHB, up to 10 years imprisonment for conspiracy to commit an offence and up to three months imprisonment or a $500 fine, or both, for possession of GHB.

Yeah thats what it was classed as but no longer is.

As I say in my other post (via the link) GHB is the only substance to have gone from a class B banned substance to being completely re-classified as a prescription medicine. So in the in the time I first new of people taking it (about 17 years ago) it has gone from a over the counter completely leagal supplement to a class B banned substance to now a legal "medicine" availble on prescription .

I hate to burst your bubble HP, and point out that the above may be the worst advice you've ever given (possibly leading to someone interpreting "legal medicine" to mean they can sell or pass it on = 10 years at Mangaroa!!).

Try reading the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, up to date version found here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... _resel&p=1

Specifically locks in GHB as a class 2 drug....... :naughty:

Exemptions may be found here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... _resel&p=1

[HumanPerformance]

In NZL:

Yeah thats what it was classed as but no longer is.

As I say in my other post (via the link) GHB is the only substance to have gone from a class B banned substance to being completely re-classified as a prescription medicine. So in the in the time I first new of people taking it (about 17 years ago) it has gone from a over the counter completely leagal supplement to a class B banned substance to now a legal "medicine" availble on prescription .

I hate to burst your bubble HP, and point out that the above may be the worst advice you've ever given (possibly leading to someone interpreting "legal medicine" to mean they can sell or pass it on = 10 years at Mangaroa!!).Try reading the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, up to date version found here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... _resel&p=1

Specifically locks in GHB as a class 2 drug....... :naughty:

Exemptions may be found here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... _resel&p=1

LMAO! Of course its not something you can "sell or pass on " :roll:

Any more than testosterone is or HGH or augmentin, viagra, or prednizone.

Its a prescription medicine. Im not sure what your idea of that is but its certainly not something you can " sell or pass on" unless your a pharmaceutical company :pfft:

[nate225]

Yeah thats what it was classed as but no longer is.

As I say in my other post (via the link) GHB is the only substance to have gone from a class B banned substance to being completely re-classified as a prescription medicine. So in the in the time I first new of people taking it (about 17 years ago) it has gone from a over the counter completely leagal supplement to a class B banned substance to now a legal "medicine" availble on prescription .

I hate to burst your bubble HP, and point out that the above may be the worst advice you've ever given (possibly leading to someone interpreting "legal medicine" to mean they can sell or pass it on = 10 years at Mangaroa!!).Try reading the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, up to date version found here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... _resel&p=1

Specifically locks in GHB as a class 2 drug....... :naughty:

Exemptions may be found here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... _resel&p=1

LMAO! Of course its not something you can "sell or pass on " :roll:

Any more than testosterone is or HGH or augmentin, viagra, or prednizone.

Its a prescription medicine. Im not sure what your idea of that is but its certainly not something you can " sell or pass on" unless your a pharmaceutical company :pfft:

Read the link!!

Testosterone, HGH, augmentin, viagra, or prednizone are prescription drugs in NZL.... i.e. restricted medicines.

GHB is clasified as a Class B drug!! Not a prescription medicine!!

The only out you've got is if medsafe (or whatever agency controls this) has an approved medicine in place, as is the case with such things like Dexedrine, which is an amphetamine (therefore class B) but available on script. I am not aware of this being the case for GHB in NZL.

Maybe stick to giving out generic programmes to gym newbies rather than posting shit advice that could lead to some ignorant person getting a lengthy sentence. Selling GHB is in no way comparable to selling Testosterone, HGH, augmentin, viagra, or prednizone. I'm sure they would be a slap on the wrist compared to what people have receive in NZL for GHB/Fantasy derivatives.

Enuff said.

[HumanPerformance]

I hate to burst your bubble HP, and point out that the above may be the worst advice you've ever given (possibly leading to someone interpreting "legal medicine" to mean they can sell or pass it on = 10 years at Mangaroa!!).Try reading the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, up to date version found here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... _resel&p=1

Specifically locks in GHB as a class 2 drug....... :naughty:

Exemptions may be found here:

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/publ ... _resel&p=1

LMAO! Of course its not something you can "sell or pass on " :roll:

Any more than testosterone is or HGH or augmentin, viagra, or prednizone.

Its a prescription medicine. Im not sure what your idea of that is but its certainly not something you can " sell or pass on" unless your a pharmaceutical company :pfft:

Read the link!!

Testosterone, HGH, augmentin, viagra, or prednizone are prescription drugs in NZL.... i.e. restricted medicines.

GHB is clasified as a Class B drug!! Not a prescription medicine!!

The only out you've got is if medsafe (or whatever agency controls this) has an approved medicine in place, as is the case with such things like Dexedrine, which is an amphetamine (therefore class B) but available on script. I am not aware of this being the case for GHB in NZL.

Maybe stick to giving out generic programmes to gym newbies rather than posting shit advice that could lead to some ignorant person getting a lengthy sentence. Selling GHB is in no way comparable to selling Testosterone, HGH, augmentin, viagra, or prednizone. I'm sure they would be a slap on the wrist compared to what people have receive in NZL for GHB/Fantasy derivatives.

Enuff said.

Well thats the whole point isnt it. If you are not aware of the situation how can you possibly comment. I can tell you that GHB (Xyrem ) is avalable on prescription in NZ and is being prescribed to people with narcolepsy. As it is in many countries around the world.

[nate225]

LMAO! Of course its not something you can "sell or pass on " :roll:

Any more than testosterone is or HGH or augmentin, viagra, or prednizone.

Its a prescription medicine. Im not sure what your idea of that is but its certainly not something you can " sell or pass on" unless your a pharmaceutical company :pfft:

Read the link!!

Testosterone, HGH, augmentin, viagra, or prednizone are prescription drugs in NZL.... i.e. restricted medicines.

GHB is clasified as a Class B drug!! Not a prescription medicine!!

The only out you've got is if medsafe (or whatever agency controls this) has an approved medicine in place, as is the case with such things like Dexedrine, which is an amphetamine (therefore class B) but available on script. I am not aware of this being the case for GHB in NZL.

Maybe stick to giving out generic programmes to gym newbies rather than posting shit advice that could lead to some ignorant person getting a lengthy sentence. Selling GHB is in no way comparable to selling Testosterone, HGH, augmentin, viagra, or prednizone. I'm sure they would be a slap on the wrist compared to what people have receive in NZL for GHB/Fantasy derivatives.

Enuff said.

Well thats the whole point isnt it. If you are not aware of the situation how can you possibly comment. I can tell you that GHB (Xyrem ) is avalable on prescription in NZ and is being prescribed to people with narcolepsy. As it is in many countries around the world.

Xyrem is not GHB (Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid) it is Sodium Oxybate! (Not to be too pedantic it does convert to GHB as does GBL & other related compounds).

However possessing GHB (or GBL or any other relative of GHB as covered by NZL's strict laws relating to derivatives: "The isomers of the substances mentioned in clause 1 whenever the existence of such isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation") other than Xyrem will get you charged with possession of a class 2 drug.

HP - be clear with your facts around such issues, the ramifications could be large for those being misinformed by you. :nod:

[BrotherRobb]

isnt GHB the active ingredient in Xyrem? also meaning they are chemically identical?

At least thats what i understood.

Unless Xyrem has changed in some way?

[nate225]

isnt GHB the active ingredient in Xyrem? also meaning they are chemically identical?

At least thats what i understood.

Unless Xyrem has changed in some way?

Sodium Oxybate is the compound in Xyrem from my understanding? (it is the sodium salt of Gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid (Na.GHB) rather than GHB, there is also a Potassium salt (K.GHB). I don't know if the acid form itself is very commonly used for sleep / training / partying purposes - the salts would be easier.

Theres some other compounds metabolise to GHB, e.g. gamma-butyrolactone (GBL), 1,4-butandiol (1,4-B), and gamma-aminobutyric (GABA), but I believe all are cover by the analogue laws.

HP's suggestion of Xtrem would be the best bet for anyone considering this option without fear of legal repercussion (I think it requires a special authority though rather than normal GP script). How many BBers have narcolepsy now?! :pfft:

Personally I'd avoid it! But hey I'm conservative! :grin:

[BrotherRobb]

would probably be a neurologist or respiratory specialist only prescription.

Actually.. its not even on the pharmac schedule from what i can see. Perhaps NZ hasnt allowed its use by strict specialist prescription.

I agree with both of you on points.

I honestly cant see how someone could argue that if they had Xyrem in their posession that it wasnt GHB. Everything i can see says that they are the same, just have a different name.

Id say that it is chemcially the same as GHB, just had a different name for the medical professions use and that it is not available in NZ, and would be illegal and considered to be GHB.

[Optimass]

How many BBers have narcolepsy now?! :pfft:

How many actually have low testosterone? (but the clinics are still operating) - Not sure getting GHB prescribed is a cost effective way of doing it so this option wouldn't be popular in any case.

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb_synthesis.shtml

Because of the shift in laws, other GHB-relatives have been popular as well including 1,4 butanediol and just straight lactone (it is said to convert to GHB in the stomach). Some 'diols' are said to be heavy kidney loads, but there have been no reports yet of serious long term health problems resulting from ingestion of 1,4b.

Consuming any GHB salt should be combined with consuming excess water as it is a very heavy salt load -- normal dosages of Na-GHB or K-GHB are in the 1-3 gram range, sometimes taken multiple times per day. Each gram of GHB contains a large amount of either Potassium (K) or Sodium (Na) salt. A high salt diet can be hard on the kidneys as well as causing other health problems. Making sure to drink plenty of water with GHB might help reduce kidney problems.

Interesting topic :nod: ... I could be wrong but the GHB we used to buy from the supplement stores back in the day, was this not the sodium form? Must have been quite a lot milder as I can't recall it being abused too much back then.

[Optimass]

Nope .... i was mistaken: http://hghpage.com/hgh-supplements/gaba ... brain.html

not the same product

[HumanPerformance]

Read the link!!

Testosterone, HGH, augmentin, viagra, or prednizone are prescription drugs in NZL.... i.e. restricted medicines.

GHB is clasified as a Class B drug!! Not a prescription medicine!!

The only out you've got is if medsafe (or whatever agency controls this) has an approved medicine in place, as is the case with such things like Dexedrine, which is an amphetamine (therefore class B) but available on script. I am not aware of this being the case for GHB in NZL.

Maybe stick to giving out generic programmes to gym newbies rather than posting shit advice that could lead to some ignorant person getting a lengthy sentence. Selling GHB is in no way comparable to selling Testosterone, HGH, augmentin, viagra, or prednizone. I'm sure they would be a slap on the wrist compared to what people have receive in NZL for GHB/Fantasy derivatives.

Enuff said.

Well thats the whole point isnt it. If you are not aware of the situation how can you possibly comment. I can tell you that GHB (Xyrem ) is avalable on prescription in NZ and is being prescribed to people with narcolepsy. As it is in many countries around the world.

Xyrem is not GHB (Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid) it is Sodium Oxybate! (Not to be too pedantic it does convert to GHB as does GBL & other related compounds).

However possessing GHB (or GBL or any other relative of GHB as covered by NZL's strict laws relating to derivatives: "The isomers of the substances mentioned in clause 1 whenever the existence of such isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation") other than Xyrem will get you charged with possession of a class 2 drug.

HP - be clear with your facts around such issues, the ramifications could be large for those being misinformed by you. :nod:

Sorry Nate, but they are one in the same thing . Sodium Oxybate is a just a type of GHB, this is why it is called NaGHB the same with the potassium based compound of it you mentioned K.GHB. If it wasnt GHB it wouldnt have it in the chemical abbreviation :pfft:

If you stop and look at chemical symbols it will tell you what it is. So in this example -

Na- the chemical symbol for salt (or sodium)

K.- the chemical symbol for potassium.

GHB - the chemical symbol for GHB :nod:

So in laymens terms we have salt GHB and potasium GHB.

I think you are confused because GHB is often listed on the internet with its pre cursors like 1,4B and GBL. But these are just pre cursors and not GHB. This is why they do not have the letters GHB in there chemical symbol :nod:

Even on the Xyrem site itself they admit that it is GHB. This extract is copied and pasted from the Q and A section.-

•The active ingredient of XYREM is a form of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB). GHB is a chemical that have been abused and misused.

[nate225]

Well thats the whole point isnt it. If you are not aware of the situation how can you possibly comment. I can tell you that GHB (Xyrem ) is avalable on prescription in NZ and is being prescribed to people with narcolepsy. As it is in many countries around the world.

Xyrem is not GHB (Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid) it is Sodium Oxybate! (Not to be too pedantic it does convert to GHB as does GBL & other related compounds).

However possessing GHB (or GBL or any other relative of GHB as covered by NZL's strict laws relating to derivatives: "The isomers of the substances mentioned in clause 1 whenever the existence of such isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation") other than Xyrem will get you charged with possession of a class 2 drug.

HP - be clear with your facts around such issues, the ramifications could be large for those being misinformed by you. :nod:

Sorry Nate, but they are one in the same thing . Sodium Oxybate is a just a type of GHB, this is why it is called NaGHB the same with the potassium based compound of it you mentioned K.GHB. If it wasnt GHB it wouldnt have it in the chemical abbreviation :pfft:

If you stop and look at chemical symbols it will tell you what it is. So in this example -

Na- the chemical symbol for salt (or sodium)

K.- the chemical symbol for potassium.

GHB - the chemical symbol for GHB :nod:

So in laymens terms we have salt GHB and potasium GHB.

I think you are confused because GHB is often listed on the internet with its pre cursors like 1,4B and GBL. But these are just pre cursors and not GHB. This is why they do not have the letters GHB in there chemical symbol :nod:

Even on the Xyrem site itself they admit that it is GHB. This extract is copied and pasted from the Q and A section.-

•The active ingredient of XYREM is a form of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB). GHB is a chemical that have been abused and misused.

LOL - I have 3 200-Level Biochem Papers HP, I am clear what the compounds are, K.GHB & Na.GHB are not GHB, they are both salts of GHB which is an acid.

It's a moot point really anyway as I'm not sure if GHB (in the acid form!) is actually used by anyone & probably the name GHB is used by lay persons to describe Na.GHB (sodium oxybate by another name!), K.GHB and likely a bunch of other compounds less related that metabolise back to the acid (GHL, 1,4B etc).

It's also moot because the 'analogue laws' passed back in the late 90's / early 2000's cover any of the salts & the lactones and put them all in the same class (Class 2), although as you point out if you have Na.GHB in a pretty Xyrem packet with a script to boot, you're covered by the restricted medicines legislation.

So apart from technical aspects of law & biochemistry HP, I think we're on the same page! :grin:

[tomsammce]

POW!!! wow Nate, you are quite the einstein... I would never have picked since you enjoy moving rocks from A to B :pfft:

I'm impressed! :clap:

where did you do your studies and how long did it take?

[nate225]

POW!!! wow Nate, you are quite the einstein... I would never have picked since you enjoy moving rocks from A to B :pfft:

I'm impressed! :clap:

where did you do your studies and how long did it take?

LOL - I've also been known to be wrong on occassions, in this case though I think HP & myself both kinda had it right, although we both stumbled here & there! :grin:

Studies were:

Bachelor of Science (Massey) Zoology/Physiology mainly - 3 years

Some further anatomy, biochem, microbiology at Otago - 1 year

Post Graduate Diploma of Teaching (Christchurch) - 1 year

Post Graduate Diploma in Business Administration (HR Major, but managed a post grad Strength & Conditioning paper in there somehow as well!) (Massey) - 2 years extramural

Probably of most interest to those in this thread, I did a 300 level Physiology paper in which I reviewed and presented a lecture on AAS, back in the days when there was still debate over whether they actually enhanced performance. I think thats well established now! :grin:

In a behavioural paper I also conducted a study on the relationship between T levels and dominance in rats. Giving propianate injections to a dozen rats on a weekly basis was a challenge in itself!

Enough hijacking gentlemen! EMC wants to get back to sleep vs Test levels. I'm sure there will be a study on one of the science databases if anyone has access to these?

Nate 'not very bright but I can lift heavy stuff' 225

[tomsammce]

What happened to the rats?

[Optimass]

What happened to the rats?

[Pseudonym]

Well, if EMC ever had a problem sleeping, reading the intricacies of law and chemistry over the last few pages should fix it. :pfft:

I'm kidding, of course. It was a good debate, thanks, gentlemen.

[Jigga]

when does being up late change to being up early?

[nate225]

Well, if EMC ever had a problem sleeping, reading the intricacies of law and chemistry over the last few pages should fix it. :pfft:

I'm kidding, of course. It was a good debate, thanks, gentlemen.

LOL - Hopefully HP & I have solved EMC's sleep issues then...just re-read the debate & he'll be snoring in no time! :grin:

[tomsammce]

when does being up late change to being up early?

Good question, good question.

i would say around 3am you are up late, around 4am you are up early

but what if you dont sleep at all? i think you have to have been to sleep to "be up early"

what do use think?

[EMC]

things are improving now that im sleeping warmer. i think its just the weather...its a good thing that i didnt actually have insomnia from the test.