Low dosage use

[nate225]

Yeah for sure man, Ive already seen bigger faster, it defiantly set my mind in a neutral position and made me open up to the unnatural option. I'm glad I'm tackling all these questions early on, its going to be a while before I actually start to pin up, if i decide thats the way to go. Peer support like this is fkn awesome, high five to all

Chemo - I guess it all comes down to what you want to do & how you perceive the risk vs reward equation.

Personally I believe that most people can compete in NZ Strength sports (as well as team sports) at a reasonably high level without the use of PEDs.

BBing I'm not so sure, I might be going out on a limb here but I think its a little more limited to those with great genetics to foot it as a natural athlete in most National lineups, unless its a drug tested comp (which are few & far between in NZL).

Athletic class is probably a more realistic option for most people that wish to stay natural & still be highly competitive during the early stage of their 'careers'. With age (more specifically training age) will come the muscle mass that will allow a natural athlete to compete with the physique boys, although I'm still to see a natty successfully compete at elite level, (IFBB Pro or NABBA Worlds), although I'd love to be proved wrong.

Just my thoughts.

[musclenz]

Ok, I see that this is another thread relating to what & what dose should AAS be run in a first cycle. I believe this has been covered in many threads on this board & is a common topic on many international boards. What I think is interesting from this discussion is the effect that AAS can have on fertility in the male body. There have been a number of reported cases where a single 12 week cycle of of as low as 250mg but more so at 500mg or higher where the user has been rendered infertile & have no or minimal swimmers left in his reproductive department. In most cases this can be restored with a fairly intensive program to stimulate the production of sperm but in some cases, although rare I believe, the production of sperm is unable to be restarted.

However, as Nate has stated many guys, even at high usage of gear, have no adverse effect on fertility & can even reproduce while on cycle.

[Daz69]

How beneficial is a low-medium low usage of gear?

I feel like I am in a good place with my training despite injuries, and as I begin to train more and more ( i could be on the border of over training but i'm enjoying it and too addicted to stop), I begin to wonder whether a low dosage of Dianabol+Winstrol would be useful for helping with my recovery, and allowing me to progress at a faster rate.

Would using these substances in low dosage allow me to stay on them for longer?

Would the side effects be lessened or just more drawn out? and on that note would the prolonged use of Win+Dbol have any long term effects on my natural test production and liver health?

Cheers

Hiya Fella....

Quite a few questions there....

With regards to your injuries... If you decide on a course of gear, then you will be lifting heavier weights... If you are injured, you will only make em worse.... So get you injuries fixed before you decide anything..!!

I see you are only 23, are you training correctly, do you have a good diet? Are you still improving in the gym? If so why contemplate taking anything..?

Do you fully understand the implications of what you are considering..???

Here is an informative web site that will give you a bit more knowledge before you do anything... http://www.steroid.com/Sustanon-250.php

I suggest looking up sustanon & decca.... They are regarded as reasonably "safe"..????? low toxic favourites by most of the lads I've trained with..

My first course many years ago was 1 sustanon & 1 decca every 5 days.... Over a 3 month cycle...... I had excelent gains in size & strength...

I went from 12st-4lbs to 14st 12lb ..... With a 3 month off cycle on creatine monohydrate.....

Unfortunately over the years the sustanon & decca went up to 7 each per week, the 3 months off went down to 4 weeks if I was lucky... Even though I knew my receptors would still be full & not accept most of the new gear I was injecting...

I played about with testex, enanthate, & cypionate, substituting them for the sus'.. Adding winstrol at the end............. Dbol, Trenbolone, & test... Oxymethelone ... Plus all the others..!!!!

My size eventually stopped increasing, I never seemed to get the quick gains I did when I started.... Even tho' the amounts I was taking was increasing.. Massively

I lost most of what I had put on, when I came off...

Even tho' I was on HCG, clomid, nolvadex, proviron, clenbuterol etc etc..

Chemical on, chemical off...... Not good when you think what sort of a pounding your body is taking inside....

Two assault charges later, three failed relationships, numerous job dismissals.... And a hospital specialist informing me my prostrate & liver were failing... & that my next course could kill me....

Both my eldest daughters ex-boyfriends are on gear & have been for several years, both started off on a low dose course, with 3 months off... Its now 3 months on & 4 weeks off if they are lucky.... Both have failed relationships behind them both have been arrested for violence...

Do you really want to go down that road..??

I suggest you fully understand what you are contemplating before you decide anything...

Its not all gains & good things... Remember that....

Good luck.....

[Chemo]

Wow Daz, heavy....I don't see myself having any of those problems.

I wouldn't be pinning up at 23, by the time I decide, and if I decide to, it would be in 1-2 years time. My injuries are healing well, and my gym work is part of that recovery. I'm just searching for alternative ways for me to get where I want the fastest.

MNZ, sorry this has turned into a first cycle post, my intention initially was to question the use of low dose orals to push my training further. It was a nice idea to begin with but it sounds like it's not worth it.

Nate, yeah I cant claim to be either a PL or BB, in fact my sport is classed by weight brackets, my goal is just buff up a bit more, just for superficial reasons. I'm quite close to my ideal physique, and then after that id be happy to stay natural....I say that now....who knows after that I could be going for the techno viking look >:3

[Daz69]

Wow Daz, heavy....I don't see myself having any of those problems.

I wouldn't be pinning up at 23, by the time I decide, and if I decide to, it would be in 1-2 years time. My injuries are healing well, and my gym work is part of that recovery. I'm just searching for alternative ways for me to get where I want the fastest.

MNZ, sorry this has turned into a first cycle post, my intention initially was to question the use of low dose orals to push my training further. It was a nice idea to begin with but it sounds like it's not worth it.

Nate, yeah I cant claim to be either a PL or BB, in fact my sport is classed by weight brackets, my goal is just buff up a bit more, just for superficial reasons. I'm quite close to my ideal physique, and then after that id be happy to stay natural....I say that now....who knows after that I could be going for the techno viking look >:3

Hi there....

I never saw myself as having those problems either when I started on a simple 6 weeks of oxandrolone in 1983....

Yeh your size & strength will improve for the few weeks you are on, but it will go when you come off & there's nothing you can do about it...

Unless you go back on again... & off you go...!!!

You will end up craving the strength & power & self confidence you had when you were on.... You will always want to be on..!!

The UK has more lads on Steroids than Heroin users.... Our local gyms are filled with fukin monsters.... Its a real social problem, especially with regards that imparct has on violent crime...

I just think you need to know, its not all what your mates tell you...

There is another side...

I see you aren't a Bodybuilder or Powerlifter, neither was I ... Dont know what you do, contact sports was my thing...

Cage fighting is Massive here in the UK, a lot of the lads use gear, but not the sort used by BB's or PL's........... Different types some more faster acting, in & out of your system (known as a cutting stack) .... Some for strength & agression rather than bulking...

I think you'll find reference to the different types, on that site I sent you..

Well Good Luck............ Any questions dont hesitate to ask...

[Chemo]

Hey thanks for the concern Daz, appreciate it.

I am constantly questioning myself as to if its worth it, as at the moment it is a patience issue. I am convinced that I could survive a cycle and have the discipline to transition back to a natural path without loosing too much muscle.

Interesting about the situation in the UK. I can imagine the Heavyweight division would make for some savage fights. I'm into combat sports too, and I can relate to the quest for more power, also another reason for my interest in gear.

I don't understand about the specific drugs used to build specific fibres though, surely the development of muscle type is to do with stimulation through training, in any case I dont think it matters, a good MMAist will use all his/her fibres types to their advantage 8)

Dont wanna see any of that Bobb Sapp shit, fast twitch fury for a minute and slow twitch sloppy for the rest. :3

It's a shame everyone just wants to see monsters just destroy each other, or even worse a monster destroy an under-prepared amateur. Rough deal :\

[Daz69]

How beneficial is a low-medium low usage of gear?

I feel like I am in a good place with my training despite injuries, and as I begin to train more and more ( i could be on the border of over training but i'm enjoying it and too addicted to stop), I begin to wonder whether a low dosage of Dianabol+Winstrol would be useful for helping with my recovery, and allowing me to progress at a faster rate.

Would using these substances in low dosage allow me to stay on them for longer?

Would the side effects be lessened or just more drawn out? and on that note would the prolonged use of Win+Dbol have any long term effects on my natural test production and liver health?

Cheers

Hi Again....

I've read back through your post & no one has really answered your questions in the context of the specific sport you do... IE: contact sports....

First of all your injuries, you've not mentioned what they are.. So I cant comment.. When I was boxing I had problems with my shoulders (rotator cuff) & elbows (lateral epicondylitis)-(or tennis elbow)...

Training will only make it worse, so you need to get it sorted before you can proceed with the next stage in your training...

If it means stopping training for a while then so be it... Because they will keep coming back unless you let em heal properly.....

Thats the last thing you want if you've trained months for a fight & you have to call it off because of a last minute injury...

The last thing you want from a course of steroids is to blow up, impeading movement, slowing you down & increasing your weight...

So any roids which cause water retention are out....

You realistically want limited muscle growth too, again it will up your fighting weight....

You could loose some fat & replace it with limited muscle... To keep you in the same weight bracket.....

Or say what the fuk, I'm gonna get on the testosterone & take my chances with the big boys... That is up to you..!!!!

If you are serious about going further in contact sports, you have to be realistic & understand, the best in your sport will be on gear....

You will end up facing an out of control, deranged, fukin lunatic, intent on ripping your face off..!!!!

So then back to the big question, what might work for you & how...?

Low dosage: You have to be realistic & balance the effects of what you take in relation to the negative impact on your body....

So you can't really go too low.... It has to work, otherwise why bother...

Are you serious or do you just want a quick tester (just to see what they really do).... Like I did.... (but remember once your in, your in for the duration).....

Dianabol is out because you blow up too much with it, increasing your weight & slowing your movement down.... So are most of the big testosterones like Cypionate & Enanthate... Oral Winstol is surprisingly very toxic to your liver.... I would personally use the water based injectable Winstrol Depot.... (but remember to keep your legs separate, water only in one & oil based only in the other, you will end up with abscesses if you mix em).....

A favourite is Winstrol Depot with Propionate (its a testosterone, look it up)

Winstrol every 2 days, Propionate every three...... They are fast acting & quickly out of your system, generally regarded as a cutting Stack... (but remember separate legs).... We did 8 weeks on a 6 weeks off, we didnt get to be monsters but didnt have the big loss in size either......

Although a strong contender for a serious (just a quick tester) is oxandrolone (Anavar).... Its a quite expensive oral, used quite a lot in contact sports, it doesnt bulk you up but increases strength & massively increases agression..... What you want really....!!!!!!!!! It very mild as far as liver toxisity is concerned..... (its on that site have a good look)...

As far as anything aiding your recovery or helping you progress at a faster rate..... I think I've covered that in my previous, but as far as thinking you are getting better both at training & recovering from injuries.... You think you are invincible & can convince yourself of anything, but strength & size will increase... whether you keep it is another matter.... There has been debate as to whether Decca aids joint pain & assists with some injuries?? The jury is still out on this one...!!!!

Staying on for longer...... It was thought your receptors filled up towards the end of a course, but apparently its the increase in catabolic hormones that limits further progress, so you will need to come off & allow everything to return to normal, with PCT...... About 3 months on gear seems to be the norm.... I did 18 weeks on just about everything 4 years ago & towards the end I stagnated.... & noticed no further growth..............

Then you need 3 months off....... Oh dear...!!! (read the coming off steroids section in the web page I sent you)..... It will explain how to minimise the great loss you will encounter...........

As for long term test production or liver toxic problems.... It depends on the individual, & what you take..... With orals you may get liver issues with Oxymetholone YOU WILL..!!!! (the coming off steroids section will answer the test issues).............

Sorry its so long..... I hope you dont get the impression I've changed my earlier oppinions on what i said......

But I didnt think anyone really answered the points in relation to your specific sport........ & its a tuesday night, i've been gym & I'm bored shitless.....

Well good luck with your training......

[Pseudonym]

Fantastic post, Daz. :clap:

[Chemo]

Yeah got the usual rotator cuff issues, due to a weakness in my rhomboids, and tight ant deltoids. Thats more of an imbalance than an injury. Ive been dealing with that over the year and its getting much better. I've been told its quite a common issue with martial artists. The other is some moderate patella tendon damage/inflammation. This has been killing me, its taking forever to heal. I suspect this was caused because of the lack of flexibility in my hams and glute strength. I've been addressing these imbalances with some solid gym work (more than my actual martial arts training)

"Or say what the fuk, I'm gonna get on the testosterone & take my chances with the big boys... That is up to you..!!!!"

Yeah I totally plan to take on Jeff Monson D: lol

In terms of weight id like to pack on a steady 5 kg's and then cut back down to a fight weight of 75-80 kg, I'm currently at a well fed and hydrated 80kg.

I think I'd try overshoot my ideal weight and as the effects of gear faded and the type of training changed I'm sure i would've dropped some muscle.

"Low dosage: You have to be realistic & balance the effects of what you take in relation to the negative impact on your body...."

Yah, this discovery was kinda disappointing. It seems that I cant avoid a standard cycle of gear. 12 weeks of Test P/E. I'll definitely have a look at Decca, if it does aid tendon repair or helps inflammation I'd be keen to check that out. I just hope that its available where I am.

Anavar sounds badass, but I think I get aggressive enough at training :3 don't wanna give of that roid rage vibe ay lol.

"If you are serious about going further in contact sports, you have to be realistic & understand, the best in your sport will be on gear....

You will end up facing an out of control, deranged, fukin lunatic, intent on ripping your face off..!!!! "

Interesting, I would've thought that most MMA athletes would use it as a training aid and by the time they came to compete they would be back to normal.

Cheers for help!

Specific advice is fantastic