Vegetarian rant.

[Loochi]

Honestly, who's a vegetarian here??? Like seriously what the f*ck's the point!!!

Why are people so mad at all this 'animal cruelty'... Isn't vegetables a life form just like animals? And don't all living organisms respond to stimuli??? If they don't then how are they living organisms?

This might be stupid but I'm curious that's all... Like why would you uproot a vegetable from its soil or pull a fruit from a tree and expect it to be ok but not kill an animal? Don't the animals get stunned before they are killed??? I hear the muslims do one blow to the neck, some sorta samurai shit!! That's quick and painless I'm guessing :pfft:

If they don't get stunned or takes more than 5 mins to kill an animal.. I am going to be a vegetarian..........

NAAAAAAAAWWWTT!!

Discuss.

[Maximus]

I have nothing against people that eat meat and would not impose my views on anyone else. I train hard like most people on this forum and have a healthy balanced diet, however, when I read things like that it makes me utterly embarrassed for you.

If you want to learn more about Vegetarian or Vegan diets and the reasons why people choose this, then the internet is a big place. Far better than making a stupid statement about Vegetables have feeling too. At the last evoultion, Vegetables and fruits did not have central nervous systems, have conscious thoughts or experience pain and misery like animals do.

Sorry for the caustic reply mate, but people simply don't have a clue and it is amazing. Watch a docomentary called 'Earthlings" and see if your opinion changes. It's on Google Videos or Youtube I'm sure.

[Loochi]

Lol Maximus,

Save your pity for me bro. I say what's on my mind unlike some others who are afraid of looking 'stupid'. Atleast this way I will learn whether it being the easy way or hard way.

You say vegetables don't experience pain, what if an animal was sound asleep and got its head chopped off..? Would it still feel pain? I am stupid bro lol, so I need this to be answered. I think being killed at the butcher is alot better than being killed by another animal in the wild.. I wouldn't know though lol.

I will watch your documentary you speak of when I get the time bro. I don't think my mind will ever change. I'd rather keep on eating meat and include my vege's n fruits too :grin:

[Maximus]

I'm not having a go, It's all good, but there are many sides to the arguement. Environmental, egological, health, compassionate etc.

My rule of thumb is that I don't anything that has blood or sh*t in it and it works for me. Simple.

However, I will be the first one to admit that I do miss having the occasional cheeseburger or a medium rare steak, but it is a small price to pay.

[Loochi]

Maximus,

All good bro. See, the way you said "I don't eat stuff that has blood or shit in it" ... If people say that to me, it would make more sense than what I previously stated in my first post.

So... Do you eat insects? They have a different type of blood, hemolymph.. it's green.. Lol jkz mate jkz. :grin:

See with me, I eat meat for the benefits. Don't crave meat too much except for bacon lol.

[Pee]

We where meant to eat meat, its a quick & fast source of energy, The only reason that vegetarians exist is because the meat eaters brains grew after getting out of the tree's and built this great civilisation where farming and agriculture is so advanced you can get your required nutrients from veggies.

Put any one of them in a survival situation where they simply required the meat to live and you would have them ordering up steaks blue.

and up until the last 200 years food wasn't in abundance so you had no option of getting your purple cabbage and imported shitarki mushrooms from the supermarket. This is the same reason that people are getting fat, 200 years ago a good fatty piece of steak was the best thing you could get, and we have evolved to crave food high in fat, so we can store it for the colder months (mainly Europeans) again fat is now in high abundance, look at 99% of fast food.

I don't personally care if someone doesn't eat meat, who does, but when I hear statement like "Does this have animal products in it?, Cause if it does it will make me sick"

f*ck OFF MATE, it wont make you sick, and if it does its called natural selection and you should have died out by now.

You can easily convert vegans and vegetarians, just get them stoned and goto macca's.

[Ronin]

Personally I think vegetarians were a great invention, the more of them there are...the more meat there is for me

Seriously though, I can respect someone's decision to not eat meat, based on taste. I understand because I don't like to eat most veges because to me they taste awful. I'm less inclined to respect the decision made based on the whole "it's cruel to eat other animals" philosophy (but will still respect anyone who has the strength of personality to hold to their beliefs, regardless). No, it's not cruel to eat them, it's the natural order of things. Some animals exist to eat, some to be eaten. Yes, I'm sure that in some cases the animals do suffer some anxiety prior to being killed, and in some cases things may go wrong and the killing isn't as humane as it could be, and that's a shame...but i'm still going to eat it.

Max, in answer to your rule of thumb, mine is "I will turn vegetarian when you can convince all the lions, tigers and sharks to do the same". :wink:

[weener lad]

Nothing against vegos BUT I was on a flight the other day and sitting across from us was a family with a 2 year old. The flightys came around and offered here nappies and baby food. The mum sparked up and said NO my daughter is a vegetarian! Who the hell knows they are a vego at 2???? This is my problem with some vegos and vegans (some not all :pfft: ) they are worse than door knockers always pushing their beliefs.

Rant over :grin:

[Maximus]

Good responses.

If I was in the wilderness and had to kill animals to survive, then of course I would. No question. People's ethical values go out the window when the survival instict kicks in.

The only thing that really gets me is the idea that you can't get big and strong on a Vegan diet. Not all Vegan's wear hemp and look like a strung out hippy. Check out Mike Mahler if you disagree. http://www.mikemahler.com. That guy is Vegan and is built like a tank.

[Phedder]

Two of my flat mates are vegetarian, one was raised as a vegetarian and the other became vegetarian because of a bet with his dad he couldn't do it for 6 months, it's almost been a year now and he says he just prefers fruit and veges, but still eats seafood. From what I understand it has a much lesser environmental impact, eg if you had two fields of the same size, you could produce more food with less impact growing grains or corn or fruit etc compared to a field of cattle. Personally I love meat, I've grown up on a small farm and whilst at my parents all the beef, pork and lamb we eat is home grown and home killed. Those animals have a good life, and their death is quick and humane. Nothing tastes better than a good home kill steak or leg of lamb :nod:

[Maximus]

It is true that it is more environmentally less destructive to have a field of crops or grains than to raise a field of cattle. It has been proven that within the next 300 years that it will be unlikely there will be meat production as the planet will not be able to sustain this on its current population growth. Maybe on a small farm, but certainly not the massive food lots that operate now. They are an ecological disaster.

Blame Fitz Haber, he was the German chemist that invented nitrogen fertilizer. This is the reason that there are so many people on the planet now. His version of ammonia synthesis is the reason that crops can be rotated so fast, he also was a madman that liked to be first hand to release deadly chlorine gas on enemy troops during the first world war and his wife shot herself through shame. Top bloke all round really. History Lesson over. Haha.

[Draft]

I have no problem with vegetarians. I buy free range eggs and that sorta hippy shit. I have more of a problem with the people who eat meat but refuse to kill it themselves and finding hunting for food (as opposed to sport hunting) barbaric. I guess these guys don't have a real picture of what goes on in a slaughterhouse and expect the animal is killed painlessly.

I liked the article TFB posted a while back. I think it may have been some dick who took out some advertising space to oppose hunting. The punchline was basically "instead buy your meat from a supermarket where no animals where harmed."

I understand man vegans a little less. Many of the foods they avoid can be obtained without harm to animals. But hey, each to their own. As long as they don't get all preachy and shit.

[AlBundy]

I guess to me the idea of having to force down a whole lot of plants to get my nutritive needs is off putting although the awesome dumps it would produce would be a definite plus.

[D-Rock]

I had a conversation with an Indian man who was predominantly a vegetarian, and only ate meat on special occasions. He was telling me the reason for this is that the part of India he lives in doesn't produce great amounts of veges due to climate, resources etc, and that if they were to raise a goat for food purposes, the amount of grains and veges that would be used to feed the goat until it was large enough to eat, was a hell of a lot more meals than what the goat meat would provide. So for them, meat was very special because there was a lot of sacrifice that went with it. He was only in NZ for about a week, and while he was here he didn't eat meat because even though there was plenty, he didn't feel that it held the same personal importance to him.

[becbec]

The only reason to avoid eating meat is if it's not cooked or rotten :nod:

[Mike Zero]

I'd be a vego if I didn't lift (srs)

[Beef]

bro i'd be vegetarian if i wasn't into bodybuilding. there are so many benefits

a)it's a hell of a lot healthier

b)it's more sustainable in the long run- you think about it. there's already a hunger shortage in the world. if we stopped eating meat, there'd be more food around as the animals have to be fed

c)it's so much cheaper. being a poor student it would be ideal to not have to pa for meat, as it's usually by far the most expensive part of the meal

d)less cruel to animals. the argument that plants have "feelings" cracks me up . they don't have a brain to process pain, unlike animals.

-i'm not pro-vego or anything, but i can definitely see why people choose to go down that root for practical, ethical, and health related reasons.

[AlBundy]

The only reason to avoid eating meat is if it's not cooked or rotten :nod:

And even then that only applies if your a woman :pfft:

Health related reasons eh I'm sure there must be some, but I've never bothered to look into it. Surely it must be difficult getting a complete range of nutrients from primarily plants. That said what the hell is a complete range of nutrients, how do you define it and it certainly must differ from individual to individual. After all those guidelines about how much iron you need how much zinc and macronutrients you need all that stuff, how were the studies done that came to those conclusions? I spose I have to look up some journals.

[Luigi]

[Gym rat]

I rather have a nice steak or any type meat and much better in the way of protein and iron

[AgentOrange]

im not a vego but i invite everyone to watch this ha ha :pfft:

Might be a few converts, or maybe it will fuel debate

I have skipped part 1 as its introduction bullshit

[holdenman]

The way I see it is that all animals are here to reproduce, and in the process make themselves dominant. Humans are the dominant race on this planet so we have earned the right to kill and eat whatever the f*ck we want! To all you veges, lifes cruel. Lifes unfair. Get over it.

[Maximus]

There is a difference between killing an animal in the wild for food and having a corrupt industry set up for you to buy some steak at the local Woolworths. The knock on effect of this is terrible. These animals are not the victims of "survival of the fittest". They are bred especially for food, pumped full of dangerous antibiotics to keep them alive in disgusting terrible conditions and when the end of their miserable lives is near they are slaughtered in a far from humane way.

Regarding nutrition, there is a doctor in the USA Dr Dean Ornich that is treating heart attack patients with a Meat and Dairy free diet (Vegan) instead of endless medication. Amazingly the patient responds to this very well and the heart is heals itself and arteries unblock over a period of time. This research has been published. Due to the lack of saturated fat in a meat and dairy free diet, it is almost impossible to be fat or have heart disease.

As I have said before, I have nothing against people that eat meat, however, you have to know where you food comes from and the system that exists around it. Most people don't even know that bacon comes from a pig they are so stupid. If you don't believe me, look at the drive through lines at KFC/MacDonald's/Wendy's and see how many athletic people are there. Not one.

[teamfatboy]

Um.... I think there's probably some middle-ground here, between:

• spiritual objections to eating fellow creatures,
  compassion and respect for living things, ensuring no unnecessary pain,
  the body's need for fuel including animal tissue, and
  the fact that "industry", more notably in other parts of the world but New Zealand, will cut corners in the most appalling ways.
  

As I understand it, humans were always omnivores, so we had evolved to require a proportion of meat in our diet. Therefore, I don't particularly feel a guilt about including meat, fish and poultry in a balanced diet.

However, I do have concerns about ensuring that we don't cause unnecessary suffering. In New Zealand, compared to the US, we probably treat our sheep and cattle much better, by and large. Pigs and poultry are different, but we're improving that thanks to the work of animal welfare groups highlighting piggeries or chicken farms that breach government or industry guidelines.

Confusing "bred for food" - not necessarily a bad thing - with "pumped full of antibiotics" - definitely a bad thing - and "kept in terrible conditions" - which is not always the case in NZ, but is bad where it happens - doesn't necessarily help matters.

My 2c worth -

[Beef]

The way I see it is that all animals are here to reproduce, and in the process make themselves dominant. Humans are the dominant race on this planet so we have earned the right to kill and eat whatever the f*ck we want! To all you veges, lifes cruel. Lifes unfair. Get over it.

you really think this? so since men have traditionally dominated over women they have earned the right to do anything they want to them? i don't think so.

sorry, but don't agree.