Pump

[tried]

Can someone please explain to me the idea of pump? People say it gave me good pump (what ever supplement etc). What does having a good pump achieve? Aside from making your arms look bigger for a period of time.

Cheers

[runveerun]

Ummm it feels cool! lol

There's prolly some extra smart answer to this, but I think it's when there is blood flowing through the muscle? The muscle blows up and it's feels great!

[tinytraps]

Ummm it feels cool! lol

There's prolly some extra smart answer to this, but I think it's when there is blood flowing through the muscle? The muscle blows up and it's feels great!

Quite like a boner

[TonganTerror]

as Arnie once said "the pump is like sex only bettah"

[BarBrother]

correct me if i am wrong but i beleive the 'pump' is actually fluid called edeama rushing to the muscle which causes the sensation not actually blood

[BarBrother]

correct me if i am wrong but i beleive the 'pump' is actually fluid called edeama rushing to the muscle which causes the sensation not actually blood

[Beef]

"The greatest feeling you can get in the gym or the most satisfying in the gym is the pump. Let's say you train your biceps - blood is rushing into your muscles and that is what we call the pump. Your muscles get a really tight feeling like your skin is going to explode any minute and it's really tight like someone blowing air into your muscles. It just blows up and it feels different. It feels fantastic. It's as satisfying to me as cumming is, you know, as having sex with a woman and cumming. So can you believe how much I am in heaven? I'm like getting the feeling of cumming in the gym, I'm getting the feeling of cumming at home, I'm getting the feeling of cumming backstage when I pose out in front of 5000 people. I get the same feeling so I'm cumming day and night. I mean it's teriffic right, so you know, I'm in heaven." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

[Jigga]

I'm slow to believe BBers when they talk about the science behind how they got so big. A lot of them say though that pumping their muscles full of blood stretches the fascia which allows more room for their muscles to grow. If you have skinned an animal you will have a better feel for what they are talking about. The fascia is that tough layer, beneath the skin, covering the muscles and holding them in place kinda.

You have to wonder how you get PLers that can be so much lighter and less muscular than some BBers and yet they can push more weight. I know it has a lot to do with the neural-muscular connection they develop practicing and training 3 specific movements. I also think you create better neural pathways by pressing bigger weights over lower rep ranges. However, I think there could be a link between the pump that BBers achieve during a workout being greater than the pump PLers achieve which allows them to build more muscle mass.

I don't know if many people have thought about this and if they have a cast-iron explanation for it but I'm interested if they do.

[nate225]

I'm slow to believe BBers when they talk about the science behind how they got so big. A lot of them say though that pumping their muscles full of blood stretches the fascia which allows more room for their muscles to grow. If you have skinned an animal you will have a better feel for what they are talking about. The fascia is that tough layer, beneath the skin, covering the muscles and holding them in place kinda.

You have to wonder how you get PLers that can be so much lighter and less muscular than some BBers and yet they can push more weight. I know it has a lot to do with the neural-muscular connection they develop practicing and training 3 specific movements. I also think you create better neural pathways by pressing bigger weights over lower rep ranges. However, I think there could be a link between the pump that BBers achieve during a workout being greater than the pump PLers achieve which allows them to build more muscle mass.

I don't know if many people have thought about this and if they have a cast-iron explanation for it but I'm interested if they do.

I think you'll find PMan can dispel this myth for you.

[Jigga]

I'm more interested in a full explanation in to why for instance Kroc is stronger than Cutler and yet their physiques are light-years apart.

Is it that BBers actually have bigger, stronger muscles than PLers and just lack the neural adaption PLers have developed from low rep training? Interested if Pman can give a satisfactory answer...

[nate225]

Probably a few basics to think about Jigga:

1) Genetics (leverages, length of bellys/insertions&origins, fibre type numbers etc)

2) Primary type of training (strength vs hypertrophy)

3) Nutrition / supplement / drug differences (Kroc keeps to weight classes, Jay focuses on size & condition)

[ThePman]

That's getting into a fairly complex discussion, because comparing the results between any two people will always run into a lot of confounds. Training is certainly *a* factor but I'd certainly not call it the only factor.

Genetic responses are certainly likely. Anybody with the ability to compete at the world level in the IFBB is going to have some advantages that others just won't - a lot of it will be due to how they respond to training and to drugs. I recall that supposedly Flex Wheeler was found to have something going on with his myostatin gene, as one example, and I'd almost guarantee that there are a range of other genetic factors that would govern this, where the biggest guys have most or all of them in place.

Training can be part of it. The biggest difference to me, between most PLing and BBing routines, is the volume done and the degree of specialization.

This is entirely anecdotal, but if you look at the guys with "bodybuilder" development, they almost always train with higher volume - whether it's a BBer split routine or just doing a whole ton of work in general (i.e., Siders, most top level strongmen, etc etc), the guys that show off that development are actively training those muscle groups. Since more volume will eventually yield more size (provided you're training to increase your working weights w/ that volume; pumping away doesn't help, but increasing your 8-10RM certainly will), it only makes sense.

The other thing is that by and large PLing routines do focus on the three lifts and the assistance for those lifts. This *can* overlap w/ the above, in that a lot of the old-school PLers from the 70s and 80s were training a lot like what we'd call "bodybuilding routines" now. The more diversity you bring into the routine, in terms of making sure muscle groups are being trained directly vs. indirectly by focusing on the lifts, the bigger you're likely to get.

The other thing I hesitate to bring up, but you really have to: drug use. How long has Cutler been competing at the top levels? At least 10 years that I know of, probably longer. That's a lot of time to chronically expose your body to high levels of androgens, GH, and insulin, and there's a lot of indicators in the research that you can see some really crazy things happen with long-term exposure to that kind of pharmacology - things like hyperplasia and so on that you'd rarely encounter in a natural.

This isn't to say that high-level PLers are natural, or that Kroc is. I'm also not terribly interested in finger-pointing, so don't take this as that; I only bring it up because it is relevant. In any case, I'm under the impression that most PLers tend to use less exotic cocktails (i.e., a gram of test + drol + tren) vs. what's required of a top-level BBer (various AAS, GH, insulin, etc?), and given a span of years that can probably add up too.

Add up all those factors, and you can end up with wildly different end-points just because of the fact that both guys have spent most of their time training towards one goal over another. Could Kroc wind up looking like Cutler? Maybe, maybe not. It's really not easy to say.

[Jigga]

Appreciate the time you take to answer questions Pman. Liked.

[ohjoshua]

it looks like Kroc has better abbs then cutler. lol

[Luigi]

thats a great post Pman

one other thing id like to bring up is just because powerlifters carry a higher level of bodyfat doesnt mean they dont carry a shitload of muscle under that, some of the top pros built a lot of there mass doing basic powerlifting movements.

[dsmi163]

a lot of powerlifters are competing in weight restriction grades therefore it is crucial to attempt to maximise their strength without gaining weight. i think gaining muscle mass means you will have more potential in terms of how strong you can get but it is definitely possible to get stronger without getting bigger.

[tii]

I think the other important factor which Pman kind of brought up is the way in which the training affects the muscle;

the rep range for example has a completely different stimulus depending which end you are training in.

for example

Low rep training factors;

Neurological connection

creatine energy

energy abundance

high intensity on contraction/calcium reaction

repetitive stress is not a factor.

Higher rep factors:

energy is NOT abundant

wear and tear from volume/greater fiber proliferation

multiple contractions

byproduct buildup

low emphasis on neuro

multiple energy sources

and ofcourse the way the body will repond will be different depending on what is being affected within the muscle and more importantly what needs to be made better (As an example there is no need to repond with anything to do with oxygen if you are only using anarobic energy)

I think the belief a bigger muscle = a stronger is not correct because the body responds more to size from factors that aren't strength (all things equal).

bigger myrofibrils within a muscle relating to strength is a different story.

[severe]

Appreciate the time you take to answer questions Pman. Liked.

+1