My diet

[Peachy]

Lol personally I think Pman doesn't need to get frustrated because he knows without a doubt that what he is saying is based on science and research. People get shitty when they talk out there arse and someone proves them wrong. They get all defensive...

[rimma]

Interesting discussion, if somewhat pointless, but still civil which is pleasant.

Its well known that Pman's diet consists of eating three Bros for breakfast each morning (timing is unimportant though because each Bro forms a slow-digesting bolus in the gut).

...must be mellowing out in his old age :pfft:

[Phedder]

Its well known that Pman's diet consists of eating three Bros for breakfast each morning (timing is unimportant though because each Bro forms a slow-digesting bolus in the gut).

:pfft: :pfft: :notworthy: :clap:

[startinfromscratch]

i just started IF, but shit i better stop! 3 hours and 1 minute into my fast, te bicepts will be catabolic

[ThePman]

...must be mellowing out in his old age :pfft:

It's this more than anything. I used to get all worked up over this stuff. These days it just doesn't matter that much to me. Getting worked up over an internet discussion doesn't help anybody out.

I've got no hard feelings against Daz. He's probably a nice guy that I could sit down and have a beer with. We just disagree on the matter. No big deal.

[cycomiko]

Laymans group (Layne is one stdent) also does work with data on breakdown, because it is only of minor importance(mainly cos there aint much we can do to change the responses). Combine that with the difficulty, and greater expense at gaining quality data (not the simplistic three-compartment modelling often utilized by Bob Wolfes students, or worse, the typical modelling used by Daniel Tomes group or the whole body stuff put out by Boiries group).

Its a big who=cares.

Plus, if you have been in this for 31 years, you could perhaps use the correct scientific meaning for theory, not the lay public garbage.

Get *****d..!!!

Ah, the retort of somebody who has nothing of value to add.

[Chemo]

lovin the aggression >:3

Both methods of frequency work, but what one offers better/optimal results.

The studies promoting the smaller and more frequent meals noted that after a certain amount of protein is digested, the body begins to break down AA's for fuel, luecine being one of the first and a bcaa. My thoughts would be that as soon as a bcaa is not being used for its primary role (muscle building) then I need to be spacing out my meals more to use those AA's more efficiently. If I were being picky about absorption, I do generally soak myself in protein just to make sure I'm not missing out on any growth, that and I love dropping an epic protein fart in the work elevator. I consider that protein well used

Do you think perhaps that the IF diet is so successful less because of the protein absorption and efficiency but the hormonal compensation your body uses in response to the fast and low blood sugar (optimal GH release)

This reminds me about the protein deficiency method.

In short eat sweet piss all protein (less than 30g)and train and as again as a hormonal response to the shock the body produces more testosterone to protect you from catabolism. A few brave people have reported results from it, and this totally fks up anyones theories about the use of protien absorption for growth. It doesnt necessarily answer the issue of how proteins behave once absorbed into the body. Just that the body compensates for the need to grow.

Just to back daz up a little bit,however I don't think that protein frequency is the only way to get results. In the end the body adapts, and thank god for that sort of variety and its ability to spark debates like this >:3

vegan bodybuilding....discuss

[Daz69]

...must be mellowing out in his old age :pfft:

It's this more than anything. I used to get all worked up over this stuff. These days it just doesn't matter that much to me. Getting worked up over an internet discussion doesn't help anybody out.

I've got no hard feelings against Daz. He's probably a nice guy that I could sit down and have a beer with. We just disagree on the matter. No big deal.

Hi Fella

I think at this point its fairly obvious I dont come from the same educated background as yourself....

My training partner does.. I have tried over the years to take his advice on training/diet & nutrition....

He at times talks like you do, I get baffled... Maybe I should have listned more....

I think we have both mis interprated what the other was trying to say... Probably my fault for not explaining correctly....

I did think at 60g of whey protein Bob was consuming too much & that some would get pissed out & wasted..

I think Human Performance agreed...

I do understand protein does NOT all get used for only building muscle & nothing else.... I fully understand there are many uses for protein within the body, & that only a small percentage actually creates muscle growth...

My problem was with the surplus..??? What happens to that..???

I didnt get that point across clearly, my fault..

I'm wanting HELP here.. because I'm unsure.......!!!

I at times eat so much I feel physically sick... They are not big meals, I am trying to get the right amount of everything I need in one day.... I have 6-8 meals dependant on training days or rest days....

I would like to only have 4-6 meals or less if I could... But I am 90kgs so at the top end I'd consume about 220g protein in a day... Or 30g per meal..

4 meals at 55g each would give me my requirements... I would be happy (& less sick) to do this.....

May I quote you:

What I'm saying is that once the daily protein amount is set, the distribution doesn't matter. If the 100kg fella is getting 330g of protein a day, it doesn't matter if he eats smaller meals spaced out every 2-3 hours, or three big meals spaced out over the day, or even if he concentrates them into eight hours. As long as he gets that 330g of protein, the timing doesn't matter.

May I quote Human performance:

But..... you are also right when you say that there are times that the amount of protein that Bob takes in could be over and above his particular protien needs at that point in time. There will be times during the day in which protien in Bobs system is either converted into energy or or excreted entirely. At these particular points in time the excess protien he has ingested is indeed surplus to requirements and therefore "a waste".

Have I misinterpreted what I have read or do both sets of quotes give conflicting advice.....

After reading Layne Norton, I believed this problem of conflicting advice occured..........

I is my fault for not explaing correctly my thoughts.....

Could someone offer advice here......................

:? :? :?

[bob26]

one of my goals was to do 80 tyre flips down hill, i acheived that last sunday.

Today i started at the bottom of the drive and flipped it up hill. Got 40 flips.

8 sets of 5 flips.

Going for 8 sets of 6 flips next sunday. :twisted:

I hate that f**king tyre :pfft:

[Daz69]

one of my goals was to do 80 tyre flips down hill, i acheived that last sunday.

Today i started at the bottom of the drive and flipped it up hill. Got 40 flips.

8 sets of 5 flips.

Going for 8 sets of 6 flips next sunday. :twisted:

I hate that f**king tyre :pfft:

Good work Bob...

Your doing great fella..

Hey I'm sorry if my stupid arguement seems to have taken over your recent post.....

:?

[tomsammce]

personally i thought it was a good arguement/debate. Most would have learnt something

good work bob

[thatwaslight]

Great debate keep it going!

[ThePman]

Daz I'm going to be a poor example myself, as I'm only around a 90kger myself and not an exceptionally shredded example at that But that's mostly because I don't really eat for any particular goal, as long as my performance isn't impacted, and also because I love pies and ice cream.

In any case, I was hovering around 98kg this time last year and needed to drop some of that. Intermittent fasting has been mentioned in this thread, and that's basically how I ate: skip breakfast, first meal around noon or 1pm, and then meals up until 8-9pm, so that I only had an eight-hour eating window each day. I usually wound up eating three, at most four meals.

I dropped 10kg in about two and a half, maybe three months doing that, down to right at 88kg by my scale. Each meal was just a big serving of protein and veggies, mainly beef, whole eggs, a little chicken, cottage cheese with a scoop or two of whey before bed, and just a big whey shake before/during/after workout. The reason I bring this up is because I make it a point to get at least 80-100g of protein at each meal, and some of them wound up more like 120-150g.

I dropped weight. Body composition improved (i.e., it was mostly fat/water being dropped). This was almost a year ago, and I'm still sitting at 90-91 while eating pies and McDonald's on the regular, so I haven't really added any of it back. Obviously whatever that kind of protein intake is doing, it isn't hurting results. I can point to others that eat similarly and don't have any problems with it. A quick look at Martin Berkhan's Leangains site will show you plenty of lean, ripped guys that eat similarly.

Here's the thing though: I don't think this worked better than if I'd spread the meals out. I think it worked because it focused me on eating lots of protein, because eating like that is compatible with me (I don't tend to like grazing all day), and because it limited how much I could eat each day. There wasn't any physiological reason that it worked; it worked because it got me to eat right and be consistent.

Here's how I look at it: if protein is when you eat too much in a meal, but you can show people that are getting results whether they follow that rule or not, then odds are it's not a very good rule

Ironically, I'm saying that the "science" is probably worth ignoring; 99% of discussions about nutrient metabolism and hormonal effects are junk and best ignored. I've personally never seen a difference from meal timing or nutrient combining voodoo, and neither have people I've trained or others I've known who have gotten spectacular success with physique competitors.

I don't see any reason to sweat the details like that; we don't understand them enough to sweat them.

[thatwaslight]

P man for mod! :protest:

[TonganTerror]

great read you guys some great discussion Im particularly interested as my 10am meal contains a 500gm boerworse or 300+grm of chicken and my 12pm meal suffers greatly as I just cant fill up again yet but with some of this theory making me feel better that my overall protein intake is still good therefore mass still being held/obtained.

n.b different to bob as bob is cutting im not yet.....

as you were oh great debatists(new word) lol.....

[bob26]

great read you guys some great discussion Im particularly interested as my 10am meal contains a 500gm boerworse or 300+grm of chicken and my 12pm meal suffers greatly as I just cant fill up again yet but with some of this theory making me feel better that my overall protein intake is still good therefore mass still being held/obtained.

n.b different to bob as bob is cutting im not yet.....

as you were oh great debatists(new word) lol.....

:rockout: bob can't wait to be bulking :pfft:

damn you tt.

[TonganTerror]

great read you guys some great discussion Im particularly interested as my 10am meal contains a 500gm boerworse or 300+grm of chicken and my 12pm meal suffers greatly as I just cant fill up again yet but with some of this theory making me feel better that my overall protein intake is still good therefore mass still being held/obtained.

n.b different to bob as bob is cutting im not yet.....

as you were oh great debatists(new word) lol.....

:rockout: bob can't wait to be bulking :pfft:

damn you tt.

lmao bob ill be in your same category on the 1st of sept my turn to cardio and diet ewwwwww hate the thought lol

[Darkmanx]

May i recommend maybe still have the steak but maybe an hour or so earlier and then just have a top up with Casein protein. Theres nothing wrong with steak but my personal experience and prefrance had tought me that steak late at night make your body work realy hard and in some cases sometimes dont fully digest. I think chicken or the Casein protein has a better effect to how your body digests it.

And plus you will still stay in that positive balance till the morning without having made your system go in hyper drive cause lets face it steak takes hard work to digest. Like i said you can still have steak but maybe just a little earlier.

Anyway just my little advice but i think you have a good diet going and that already takes alot to stick to.

All the best

[bob26]

May i recommend maybe still have the steak but maybe an hour or so earlier and then just have a top up with Casein protein. Theres nothing wrong with steak but my personal experience and prefrance had tought me that steak late at night make your body work realy hard and in some cases sometimes dont fully digest. I think chicken or the Casein protein has a better effect to how your body digests it.

And plus you will still stay in that positive balance till the morning without having made your system go in hyper drive cause lets face it steak takes hard work to digest. Like i said you can still have steak but maybe just a little earlier.

Anyway just my little advice but i think you have a good diet going and that already takes alot to stick to.

All the best

Hey man cheers for your advice on the steak but that boat has sailed a long time ago. Eating steak has become a distant memory. Can't wait to refresh my memory

Was 83.1kg @ 15% a couple of weeks ago.

Jumped on the scales tonight & down to 81kg total body weight.

Not booked in to see my trainer to get my body fat remeasured till the 16th of september.

NOT TO SURE IF THERE IS GOING TO BE ANYTHING LEFT BY THEN :shock:

still going hard eating shit loads of protein. 360g a day approx (about 2g per lb of bodyweight) & my only Carbs as such is my one lot of 70g oats in the morning.

Protein is from the following sources for a days food.

750g Plain Hoki Fillets

9 size 7 egg whites

1 size 7 egg whole

120g Plain Unflavoured Whey Protein Isolate

30g Plain Unflavoured Casein Protein

185g Plain Tuna in Spring Water

350ml of skim Milk (with my oats)

So as you can imagine i am not very enthausiastic about eating at the moment. But loving the results of it. Just can't wait to be out the otherside of this so i can concentrate on building muscle instead of losing fat. \:D/

I am thinking that another 7 weeks realistically will get me down to a true 10% bodyfat. \:D/

I would love for it to be quicker than that but i think it is quite important to be realistic rather than ending up disapointed with results.

[PeterDolan]

What's your protein at now? I'd be wary in increasing from say 250g to 360 just like that, I'd build up over a couple of weeks because of the stress it can place on your kidneys or liver (forget which)

[bob26]

What's your protein at now? I'd be wary in increasing from say 250g to 360 just like that, I'd build up over a couple of weeks because of the stress it can place on your kidneys or liver (forget which)

dude my protein intake has been this high for approx 4 months or there abouts.. and i can tell you for sure that my kidneys & liver feel a hell of a lot better than the shit diet i had a couple of years back washed down with a 40 oz & 5 dozen beer. I guess i never do anything in halves.

:doh:

[PeterDolan]

Cool cool, nothing wrong with it being that high, just some info I'm putting out there. Conversely, I've been told, be just as wary of dropping it from something high like 360g to say 250g.

I think protein digestion dramas pail in comparison to your former lifestyle haha

[bob26]

oh for sure, with out a doubt. :wink:

[nate225]

What's your protein at now? I'd be wary in increasing from say 250g to 360 just like that, I'd build up over a couple of weeks because of the stress it can place on your kidneys or liver (forget which)

Just for the record PD you'd be referring to the kidneys, however this is a myth. The only issue with high protein diets that has been proven is that they are bad news for those with pre-existing kidney conditions.

If your kidneys are functioning normally no problem.

[PeterDolan]

I'm not saying high protein diets do it, that increasing from low to high overnight is stressful on the kidneys. Just going by what Kath Fouhy (leading NZ nutritionist told me). She works with general public and top sports teams, not bodybuilders so gave me that bodybuilders consume too much protein, guessing powerlifters would be in the same boat? It makes sense to me that it stress the renal system but it'd eventually adapt to it.

Like I said, just what I was told