5x5 Program (/way of life)

[Draft]

I'm looking at shifting to a 5x5 workout, mainly to give me time to fit in rugby, kickboxing and weight training.

After looking at a few I've basically decided that the Bill Starr Intermediate one would probably suit me best. This basically has me doing:

Mon: Squat 5x5

Bench 5x5

Row 5x5

With some core work as accessory work.

Wed: Squat 5x5

Incline 5x5

Deadlift 5x5

Again, core work as accessory work.

Fri: Squat 4x5, 1 set at 3 reps (new max) followed by a back-off set

Bench 4x5, 1 set at 3 reps (new max) followed by a back-off set

Row 4x5, 1 set at 3 reps (new max) followed by a back-off set

With some dips, curls and tricep extensions to finish.

Any thoughts on this?

My only thought would be that I would like to look at incorporate Overhead Press at some point. Also thought about replacing rows with wide chins/pull downs but the principle on that one shouldn't be too different?.

[ThePman]

DLs for 5x5 = going to kill you unless you're working up set by set. Even then most folks are going to do better with one solid work-set of 5 reps instead of trying to knock that off. Pulling does not respond well to lots of fatiguing volume.

Otherwise that's a solid setup

Just don't be one of those that thinks it's an "8-week routine" or whatever.

[ThePman]

Also thought about replacing rows with wide chins/pull downs but the principle on that one shouldn't be too different?.

PS aren't you having shoulder issues? "Wide" anything shouldn't even be on the table.

[SoaringSwine]

I imagine since he's doing the Bill Starr's 5x5 he will be ramping, rather than using straight sets across.

Replacing the incline bench with overhead press is perfectly acceptable. The programme is solid. I assume you have the excel for it? I've attached it in case you haven't. Just don't stick to it religiously. If you're making progress, keep upping that weight each week. If you still, either try the weight again the next week or drop the weight and build back up again.

5x5_intermediate_v0.3.xls

[Draft]

Yea it is increasing the weight across sets. But I actually misread, its actually 'only' 4 sets of 5 ramping up to 97.5% of your 5 rep max.

Yea, you're right Pman. Will steer clear of wide-grip. Thanks for that.

And, cheers for that SS!

[ThePman]

Bill Starr's routine doesn't use percentages at all.

That's the spreadsheet MadCow put together based on it, since there's no other way to spit out training weights.

Starr just had you going in and working up, trying to beat records each week and backing off when you couldn't.

[Laver]

Starr just had you going in and working up, trying to beat records each week and backing off when you couldn't.

Simple, but very effective.

[ohjoshua]

Pulling does not respond well to lots of fatiguing volume.

Otherwise that's a solid setup

quote]

I have herd that many times. Why do you think that is the case?

[ThePman]

Pulling does not respond well to lots of fatiguing volume.

Otherwise that's a solid setup

I have herd that many times. Why do you think that is the case?

In general I've always noticed this to be the case with pulling vs. pushing movements. The main answer is the starting position.

With a squat or bench, you lower the bar to initiate the movement, which means you get that eccentric contraction before you stop the bar and reverse it. It's not unlike how a spring stores energy when this happens, and our bodies are actually designed to use that effect.

Pulls start from a dead stop, so there is no elastic energy stored before hand. It's all brute force, and without getting too technical, that does a number on muscles and nerves both.

Combine that with the fact that a deadlift's leverages mean that, with very few exceptions, an unequipped squat with anything like a decent ROM will always be lighter than your best pull.

So you're combining an inherently stressful movement with very heavy weights; that makes it easy to overwork things. I like to pull heavy for One Big Set, or if I want volume, I have to leave it in the 30-70% range.

It's not quite as drastic as that on chinups or barbell rows, but I've noticed the same basic effect - there's much less tolerance for volume.

[Draft]

Bill Starr's routine doesn't use percentages at all.

That's the spreadsheet MadCow put together based on it, since there's no other way to spit out training weights.

Starr just had you going in and working up, trying to beat records each week and backing off when you couldn't.

Any preference for either? I guess since the percentages give weights that don't really work in reality it will sort of pan out that way anyway - mayb a rough guideline?

On the subject of "pulling" a guy asked my in the changing room the other day "so what did you train to day" when I responded "pull" he asked "chest and arms?" :pfft:

[rose]

So you're combining an inherently stressful movement with very heavy weights; that makes it easy to overwork things. It's not quite as drastic as that on chinups or barbell rows, but I've noticed the same basic effect - there's much less tolerance for volume.

I've found the same with heavy George Anderson's, as well as heavy weighted pullups and chinups. Whereas exes like weighted dips aren't as taxing.

[Monarchking]

Hey thnks for the Link. Im going to do this program also. With the Press substitute instead of the Incline bench.

Ive always wanted to do a 5x5 so now its time

[Draft]

Cool, would be interested to see how someone else goes on it.

I started up this week with it but I've subbed in front squats on Wednesday just for a bit of variety.

[severe]

5x5's have never failed me... I am going back to it very soon, now that my hand has almost healed.

can't wait...

[PTinCHCH]

i used to only do hypertrophy style 8-12 reps.

now, all i do is 5x5's. totally addicted and love it. makes the workout less monotonous, more enjoyable this way.

[TGD]

So the idea is you reach your 5 rep max at week 4?

Is that the best way to start if youve already been doing some form of strength training?

Surely it would feel like 4 weeks of light workouts before you catch up to where you were - and by that time with the lighter workouts you may have lost some strength?

Any one had success with jumping in at say, week 3?

[startinfromscratch]

v

[Beef]

i used to only do hypertrophy style 8-12 reps.

now, all i do is 5x5's. totally addicted and love it. makes the workout less monotonous, more enjoyable this way.

reckun you've had better gains on a 5x5 routine than a typical hypertrophy rep range?

[Growth]

If you havent mixed up your routine for a while, like 2-3 months, then id definately go for it, especially if strength is one of your core focuses

[PTinCHCH]

i used to only do hypertrophy style 8-12 reps.

now, all i do is 5x5's. totally addicted and love it. makes the workout less monotonous, more enjoyable this way.

reckun you've had better gains on a 5x5 routine than a typical hypertrophy rep range?

yes id say i would have. but ive really tightened up my training, diet etc lately, so multiple factors could be the reason for getting better gains.

ive increased strength, and with that has come denser leaner muscle and bigger too.