Rack Pulls

[steak]

Googling around and found this... bar too high eh?

and this..too high eh?

too high again?

correct?

and how bout this one....correct?

If I had to choose which ones best resembles the bar height I used it would be this last 2. What ya reckon?

[Luigi]

the last vids were i do them from, slightly below knee height or =knee height

[matt.be]

last one for me aswell. I'd almost be standing up straight already if it was above the knee, and there'd be minimal work to do.

[genetic freek]

All depends what you are trying to achieve.

[Dr Squat]

All depends what you are trying to achieve.

Good call. If you want to use them as an assistance exercise to improve your deadlift, then the pins are best set below the knees. This is obviously harder.

I remember reading an article by Cathy Millen a few years back re rack pulls. She made the point that you need to use the same technique as you would for the deadlift. By this I mean you need to have your body position the same as it would be if you were doing a full deadlift (when the bar reaches just below the knee). This way you are working on the weak points that you may have. If you load it up with lots of weight and pull as much as you can from the strongest position then you will not work on this weak point. (Nate, Tonka, OB, Mike Zero may like to agree/disagree with this logic )

As the freak states, it depends on what you are trying to achieve. If your goals are about lifting heavy and getting big, try mixing it up.

[nate225]

All depends what you are trying to achieve.

Good call. If you want to use them as an assistance exercise to improve your deadlift, then the pins are best set below the knees. This is obviously harder.

I remember reading an article by Cathy Millen a few years back re rack pulls. She made the point that you need to use the same technique as you would for the deadlift. By this I mean you need to have your body position the same as it would be if you were doing a full deadlift (when the bar reaches just below the knee). This way you are working on the weak points that you may have. If you load it up with lots of weight and pull as much as you can from the strongest position then you will not work on this weak point. (Nate, Tonka, OB, Mike Zero may like to agree/disagree with this logic )

As the freak states, it depends on what you are trying to achieve. If your goals are about lifting heavy and getting big, try mixing it up.

Agree with both DrSq & GF,

Depends on what you are trying to achieve. E.g. Sydney's Strongest Man comp had a 19.5" Axle DL, so makes sense to do rack pulls from this height.

If you're weak getting hips through on DL, you could rack pull from just over knees. Mostly though I'd go for just under the patella.

One word of caution, IMHO rack pulls are pretty average at helping the DL. Seems to help a small minority, with others just getting better at rack pulls. Unfortunately there are very few rack pull comps ! :grin: Louie Simmons (WSB) warns about going too heavy in rack pulls, from memory he says go no more than 10% of your DL. I believe his reasoning is that DL form (motor patterns) can be impacted on, and / or injury.

Deficit DL however seem to cure most DLing issues regardless of where the weakness occurs (from floor or lockout).

Hope this helps?

Nate

[rose]

use them as an assistance exercise...try mixing it up.

If you're weak getting hips through on DL, you could rack pull from just over knees. Mostly though I'd go for just under the patella.

Being a SL advocate :roll: I always saw the benefits of rack pulls (primarily) as:

"Hip Power. Correctly performed Rack Pulls start from a dead stop with little knee extension. This builds a strong, explosive posterior chain."

One word of caution, IMHO rack pulls are pretty average at helping the DL. Seems to help a small minority, with others just getting better at rack pulls. Unfortunately there are very few rack pull comps !

LOL. Maybe it's because people can generally go heavier on RP than DL etc. And everyone wants to lift something heavier! Then it ceases to be an assistance exercise...

from memory he says go no more than 10% of your DL. I believe his reasoning is that DL form (motor patterns) can be impacted on, and / or injury. Deficit DL however seem to cure most DLing issues regardless of where the weakness occurs (from floor or lockout).

8)

[nate225]

use them as an assistance exercise...try mixing it up.

If you're weak getting hips through on DL, you could rack pull from just over knees. Mostly though I'd go for just under the patella.

Being a SL advocate :roll: I always saw the benefits of rack pulls (primarily) as:

"Hip Power. Correctly performed Rack Pulls start from a dead stop with little knee extension. This builds a strong, explosive posterior chain."

One word of caution, IMHO rack pulls are pretty average at helping the DL. Seems to help a small minority, with others just getting better at rack pulls. Unfortunately there are very few rack pull comps !

LOL. Maybe it's because people can generally go heavier on RP than DL etc. And everyone wants to lift something heavier! Then it ceases to be an assistance exercise...

from memory he says go no more than 10% of your DL. I believe his reasoning is that DL form (motor patterns) can be impacted on, and / or injury. Deficit DL however seem to cure most DLing issues regardless of where the weakness occurs (from floor or lockout).

8)

When alls said and done Rack Pulls are never going to be a staple exercise for BBers. They are an assistance exercise (at best) and generally used (often unsuccessfully) to try and address specific weaknesses.

Often when people cant lockout DL's they dive into lockouts, when in fact some Dynamic Effort DL singles, or deficits DL's would better resolve the issue (often velocity from floor is too slow and hitching on quads occurs, or lifter hasn't got the motor patterns down with hips extending early enough - deficits exaggerate this and work a treat).

All that said, I will be doing specific rackpull work as I have the Apolon's Axle DL coming up at the Oz Strongman Nationals.

[rose]

All that said, I will be doing specific rackpull work as I have the Apolon's Axle DL coming up at the Oz Strongman Nationals.

:pfft: Don't do as I do, do as I say :roll: 8)

[Old Bull]

First 3 were Squats the last 2 were DLs

One word of caution, IMHO rack pulls are pretty average at helping the DL. Seems to help a small minority, with others just getting better at rack pulls.

Agree nate its more ego than anything else 360kg rack pull and and struggle with 220 from the floor.

Louie Simmons (WSB) warns about going too heavy in rack pulls, from memory he says go no more than 10% of your DL. I believe his reasoning is that DL form (motor patterns) can be impacted on, and / or injury.

I never go more than 10% and that is even hard if form is right. 2" 4" and 6" just below the knee are the main weak point areas to work from.

Deficit DL however seem to cure most DLing issues regardless of where the weakness occurs (from floor or lockout).

Nate

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Time not weight is the main issue that most people do not understand especially in PL.

[nate225]

All that said, I will be doing specific rackpull work as I have the Apolon's Axle DL coming up at the Oz Strongman Nationals.

:pfft: Don't do as I do, do as I say :roll: 8)

:pfft: nothing Rose! :grin:

It's more a case of do what you need to do!

I have an event very similar to a rackpull (the Apolons Axle is a 2" bar lifted from 19.5"), therefore I rackpull.

Even when doing a PLing comp (or an event with a full DL) I would be lucky to rack pull more than twice in the 3 months leading up to it.

[rose]

It's more a case of do what you need to do!

:nod:

[genetic freek]

My take on it is:

From what I have seen when ppl dead lift is that when they are going for there big lift its normaly at the very top part of the movement (lockout) that they fail to achive when going all out on a single. Therefore IMO rack deads or pulls are great for getting stronger for this part of the movement. every two weeks I do Rack Pulls going heavy and I can honestly say I have never when doing floor deads failed to lock out (If I go as heavy as poss I can't get that first part of the movement never the end) I do also think that rack pulls are a great movement for a bodybuilder to do. Thickens up the back like nothing else. \:D/

[Laver]

All depends what you are trying to achieve.

Was thinking that as I read the first and subsequence sentences of this post, glad to see it was in the top 5 replys

[Laver]

Stop giving the high rack pullers grief!

You all talk about Dead lifting and so on, what about grip strength and traps?

[steak]

Interesting and informative responses...ta :nod:

I don't know if its cos im tall but the hardest part of the DL for me is getting the bugger up that first 2ft. From there I seem to be right...Im guessing the only way to improve that is to DL more and if so thats just fine

I will add RP to the odd back day here and there just to improve the top half of my DL but like you say for a BB there is little "need" other than the obvious benefits.

[nate225]

My take on it is:

From what I have seen when ppl dead lift is that when they are going for there big lift its normaly at the very top part of the movement (lockout) that they fail to achive when going all out on a single.

Often the hips dont come through quick enough, or it hitches on the thighs.

Deficits sort this better than rack pulls in most cases by accentuating the weakness, making a lifter pull faster off the deck and get the hips through (the Midnight move! :grin: ).

Therefore IMO rack deads or pulls are great for getting stronger for this part of the movement. every two weeks I do Rack Pulls going heavy and I can honestly say I have never when doing floor deads failed to lock out (If I go as heavy as poss I can't get that first part of the movement never the end)

As I said it may be the answer for some lifters, you might be one of them!

I do also think that rack pulls are a great movement for a bodybuilder to do. Thickens up the back like nothing else. \:D/

Ahh, Rows.....Deadlifts.....Shrugs.....weighted chins... :grin:

But seriously GF, if they work for you stick with em!

Although a majority of people respond to the same things BBing is very individual, and the more you know what works for you the better your results will be (logical really!).

All the best for the DL challenge - push Mike hard bro, he's getting crazy strong!

PS - I did rack pulls tonight! :nod:

[rose]

PS - I did rack pulls tonight!

:haha:

[musclenz]

My take on it is:

From what I have seen when ppl dead lift is that when they are going for there big lift its normaly at the very top part of the movement (lockout) that they fail to achive when going all out on a single. Therefore IMO rack deads or pulls are great for getting stronger for this part of the movement. every two weeks I do Rack Pulls going heavy and I can honestly say I have never when doing floor deads failed to lock out (If I go as heavy as poss I can't get that first part of the movement never the end) I do also think that rack pulls are a great movement for a bodybuilder to do. Thickens up the back like nothing else. \:D/

I agree wih you on this one GF. It depends what you want to acheive. What you want to achieve determines the height of the bar & to a certain extent the weight & reps. Since you can move a greater weight than a trad DL you can create some serious overload. Not only on lower back but also on the traps & lats & you use hip flexors, hams and glutes to assist the lower you set the bar. So basically, you are using the strongest muscles in your body to get that weight up in a compound movement so its got to be good for strength training & assisting in a full DL movement.

Its also safer than a DL because your pelvis is never tucked underneath your body as it is during the first part of the DL but proper back position must be maintained & hyperextension avoided at the top of the lift.

Heres a thread from Matt Dickerson at animalpak which I believe says a lot about using RP's. I agree with what he says in the first part but you Hardcore PLers can haggle over the merits of the use of bands & chains to develope the DL.

_

"I think it is important to understand why you are doing the rack pull vs a full range deadlift and understand that there is a superior way to train for both purposes. Bodybuilders and Powerlifters use both for different goals. goals. More and more modern day Powerlifters view the regular conventional deadlift as a way to test strength but don't perform them that often to build the lift itself. A bodybuilder will perfom a conventional deadlift because it develops a lot of the muscle groups in the posterior chain. Powerlifters use rack pulls below the knees to address certain weaknesses at various sticking points while bodybuilders and powerlifters alike will do strong ranges above the knees to create a lot of tension through the whole body.

The problem with doing a rack pull to build the deadlift for powerlifting purposes is that you will never use the same technique and be in the same position when you pull from the higher position from the rack as you would be from the ground. The body will find the most efficient position possible to do the lift and often times your form will look completely different when doing a rack pull than if you pull from the ground. For powerlifting purposes, If you are wanting to train the lock out portion of the deadlift, it is more beneficial to pull from the ground with a lower bar weight but against bands or chains or lightened from bands on top. This way, when the bar is a few inches below the knees, it ways a hundred pounds or so more than from the ground. You get the best of both worlds; increased range of motion for hypertrophy purposes and heavier weight at the lockout portion without altering your deadlift technique.

[Luigi]

since theres so much helpful advice in here, what are some good exercises to do to work on the bottom portion of the deadlift, the off the floor and getting the bar up to the knees

i do rack pulls as same as geneticfreek if i can get it above knees i can lock it out easy its just getting there thats the hard part

last week did rack pulls 220x10 - 2 inches below knees

week before deadlifts only managed 200x1 off the floor :evil:

any tips ? please !!

[Mike Zero]

My take on rack pulls:

Should mostly be done from below the knee with focus on snapping hips through. I don't think they directly help your lockout but the main reason for missing a deadlift at the top is lower back rounding. The hips can't follow through because the back is broken so the torso is left behind. Rack pulls from just below the knee are great for strengthening the lower back, especially when you don't use a belt. This is because you are pulling from a dead stop at the point where your back has the worst leverage.

Rack pulls from above the knee aren't completely useless. They are great for frying the upper back and traps. Although I think you need to do high reps to compensate for the limited range of motion. They are also good if you are the type of person who gets intimidated by new ground and need to get the feel of bigger weights in your hands to build confidence.

Luigi,

For strength off the floor think quads, quads, quads! Focus on using your quads (mind-muscle connection, bodybuilders will be good at this one) to push the ground away from you, just as you do on the leg press. Therefore any exercises for quads will help you here. Look at NZ's first and only 800lb deadlifter (although not for much longer I don't think), Derek Pomana's quads - thick as anything.

But the main thing to remember in building a big deadlift is: Your back can never be too strong!

[big MAC]

All I know is that my comp in December has 400kg for reps from 19.5", which is just at the top of the kneecap for me. Better start training for that event...

[nate225]

MuscleNZ - great post, defined difference between BBer / PLer approach (as GF did). From a PLing perspective I absolutely agree with the last paragraph esp. "For powerlifting purposes, If you are wanting to train the lock out portion of the deadlift, it is more beneficial to pull from the ground".

Mike - great post, agree re: drive with quads, I focus on driving thru the heels (as does Nickoli who is likely be the first Australiasian to DL 370!). If you look at Dereks DL's (particularly in later years, as in the 367.5kg) he almost looks like he's leg pressing. Maddog & Derek both kinda 'pack in' to a very compact starting position, a little lower than most.

Luigi - get Mike to set you up on some 2" deficit DL's, maybe progress to 3" (we found 4" a bit much and less beneficial). Also may pay to try some lighter dynamic effort DL to teach you to pull faster off the floor.

[SamWelly]

Im a big fan of Racklifts for taller guys, I still get a huge ROM when lifting 2 inches bellow kneecap. Has seen my dead lift max rep range rise a lot, but hasnt done too much for my 1RM. Does anyone else find that hamstring strength starts to play a big part when you are pulling over 2x body weight?

[Laver]

MuscleNZ - great post, defined difference between BBer / PLer approach (as GF did). From a PLing perspective I absolutely agree with the last paragraph esp. "For powerlifting purposes, If you are wanting to train the lock out portion of the deadlift, it is more beneficial to pull from the ground".

Mike - great post, agree re: drive with quads, I focus on driving thru the heels (as does Nickoli who is likely be the first Australiasian to DL 370!). If you look at Dereks DL's (particularly in later years, as in the 367.5kg) he almost looks like he's leg pressing. Maddog & Derek both kinda 'pack in' to a very compact starting position, a little lower than most.

Luigi - get Mike to set you up on some 2" deficit DL's, maybe progress to 3" (we found 4" a bit much and less beneficial). Also may pay to try some lighter dynamic effort DL to teach you to pull faster off the floor.

I don't pay much attention to Dead lifting, but I've seen maddog lift once, and thought it was something else, great style, was good to watch.