Jump to content

Sorry!

This site is in read-only mode right now. You can browse all our old topics (and there's a lot of them) but you won't be able to add to them.

My Raw Quest

Dr Squat

By Dr Squat
in Workout journals

 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 459
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Dr Squat Senior member

Dr Squat

Posted
  • Author
Posted
mr fry's looking like he's having to many fry up's, zits aplenty :wink:

I thought this forum had moved on from meaningless comments like this? I only wish i was 19 again and brimming with natural test. The young guy is incredibly talented and also very intelligent. That said, I don't think he needs to hear this sort of rubbish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
HumanPerformance Senior member

HumanPerformance

Posted
Posted
You're on the money Dr Squat regarding Daniil's question. Its all about leverages and technique, There is a tendancy for novice lifters to have a stronger deadlift initially and I attribute this to brute strength (ripping the bar off the floor) over squat technique - however once the technical aspect of the squat (as well as muscle mechanics) improves, then the two lifts balance out.

Most powerlifters lifters have a bigger squat than they do a deadlift. Another pattern that occassionally stands out is big badass deadlifters predominantly have a weaker bench because they have longer arms (longer bench stroke) and the same can be said about good bench pressers. They normally have a weak deadlift because of shorter arms and then there are the gifted ones that are just strong across the three disciplines - these lifters are special!

Dr Squat is one of those special lifters, good to have him back in the game and keeping Mike Zero honest. The Dr has tried to convince me that he has long arms, doesn't matter when you have a big arse barrel chest!

I have only read this recently by an author on T nation and have never heard it before. I dont know if its 100% accurate or not. So feel free to correct me on this Tonka, or what you think of its plausibility (as I value your opinion on such matters alot).

Apparently the reason the squat world record (even raw) will always be higher than the deadlift world record is that in the squat you are performing a negative before the positive. Apparently this "loads the muscle" and therefore are able to lift a heavier weight on the positive. This is said to work even better if you are particularly inflexable through te hips glutes and quads as you are using the resistance from the streched muscles to force you back up (kind of like a squat suit I guess). We all know that a muscle will contract more strongly and create more force imidiately after being forcefully stretched. With deadlifts on the other hand you are lifting a "dead" weight so there is no pre loading with energy beforehand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mr natural Senior member

mr natural

Posted
Posted
mr fry's looking like he's having to many fry up's, zits aplenty :wink:

I thought this forum had moved on from meaningless comments like this? I only wish i was 19 again and brimming with natural test. The young guy is incredibly talented and also very intelligent. That said, I don't think he needs to hear this sort of rubbish.

hahaha,so serious 8)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dr Squat Senior member

Dr Squat

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I have only read this recently by an author on T nation and have never heard it before. I dont know if its 100% accurate or not. So feel free to correct me on this Tonka, or what you think of its plausibility (as I value your opinion on such matters alot).

Apparently the reason the squat world record (even raw) will always be higher than the deadlift world record is that in the squat you are performing a negative before the positive. Apparently this "loads the muscle" and therefore are able to lift a heavier weight on the positive. This is said to work even better if you are particularly inflexable through te hips glutes and quads as you are using the resistance from the streched muscles to force you back up (kind of like a squat suit I guess). We all know that a muscle will contract more strongly and create more force imidiately after being forcefully stretched. With deadlifts on the other hand you are lifting a "dead" weight so there is no pre loading with energy beforehand.

I think this is a bit too complicated myself. The main reason the deadlift record will never be as high as the squat record is because it's hard to hold on to the weight past a certain point. Simply put, it's about grip strength.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SoaringSwine Senior member

SoaringSwine

Posted
Posted

The WRs for raw lifts are a bit iffy, mainly due to rule variations. But under IPF conditions the highest raw deadlift is definetely higher than the raw squat record. A negative does assist the squat, and some lifters may squat more than they dead. But on average people have more biomechanical advantage in the deadlift.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dr Squat Senior member

Dr Squat

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Squat suits and knee wraps (and briefs, in the multi-ply feds) will also help the squat far more than any equipment will help the deadlift, too.

Good point. But there are some guys and girls who get quite alot out of a deadlift suit. I have heard of 50 kg and I suspect some get more. But you are right in saying that squat equipment is worth more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Simbo New member

Simbo

Posted
Posted

The IPF record holder Tibor Mizarous did around a 408 kg in a suit and over 400 kg in a soft (no supportive) suit. Most of the best naturally built deadlifters, do it near stiff legged and get little out of a suit. Nick Hansen who will soon be NZ's best ever deadlifter has increased his deadlift from 330 to 360 in the last 2 years, and has gone suited to suit less (powerlifting to strongman dictating that).

I suspect those with a stockier build doing sumo can get more from a suit.

Would like to know how many ipf squatters are doing over 400 kg raw squat to compare to the top deadlift. Or with Andy boltons 457 kg he must do at least 430 - 440 raw, . Would not think any oft the multi-ply lifters would be squatting that raw.

Notwithstanding the above which relates largely to deadlift specialists, peoples leverage typically gets better for squat /bench as they process in bodyweight and gets worse for deadlift, hence the squat goes up (raw or otherwise) more than the deadlift. And as some former Westside Barbell lifter said, if your not squatting more than you deadlift you need to put on weight. I think another one said if your deadlift starts going backwards you need to loose weight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike Zero Veteran member

Mike Zero

Posted
Posted
Squat suits and knee wraps (and briefs, in the multi-ply feds) will also help the squat far more than any equipment will help the deadlift, too.

Good point. But there are some guys and girls who get quite alot out of a deadlift suit. I have heard of 50 kg and I suspect some get more. But you are right in saying that squat equipment is worth more.

Where you heard that :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dr Squat Senior member

Dr Squat

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Squat suits and knee wraps (and briefs, in the multi-ply feds) will also help the squat far more than any equipment will help the deadlift, too.

Good point. But there are some guys and girls who get quite alot out of a deadlift suit. I have heard of 50 kg and I suspect some get more. But you are right in saying that squat equipment is worth more.

Where you heard that :P

In your case it's probably closer to 60 kg. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tonka Member

Tonka

Posted
Posted

RAW vs Equipped are two totally different movements and require different technique for both the squat and deadlift. Simbo makes a good point regarding the strongest RAW squatter in the world (currently Donny Thompson IMHO @ 400-420kg) vs the strongest RAW deadlifter (could be a number of guys at 410-430kg). The difference would be marginal to say the least but if I had to make a call it would put my money on the top deadlifters to out lift the top squatters RAW.

Totally different story when the Equipment comes into play and like Pman said, factoring in wraps, briefs, suit, the monolift as well as the RAW strength component, the deadlift lags by an easy 80-100kg.

On side note it sickens me to see the all time best bench press record (477.5kg/1050lbs by Mr R Kenelly) is higher than the all time best deadlift (458kg/1008lbs by Mr A Bolten). That is just a result of technological advancement with the shirts compared to the top deadlift suits on the market, the carryover between the two just doesnt even compare!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tonka Member

Tonka

Posted
Posted

My apoligies Dr Squat, I can see my last posting has the ability to hijack your training log. If it does head that way, we should move it to the BB/PL forum. Thanks again for an awesome weekend Doc!. Was awesome to catch up with everyone once again and by all accounts we could be down those ways two more times next year (Oceania bench/nationals)!! Fingers crossed.

Stay strong bro!

R

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Tonka Member

Tonka

Posted
Posted
Don't worry, he loves the extra views ;)

Missed you at the bandquet MZ! I needed a mate to keep going up to the buffet tables....good to see you bro and catchup again! Keep up with the progress your making and having the doc push you along will ensure many more PR's to come!!

Its great to be home now BUT Im gutted I didnt get to have a train at ESB!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dr Squat Senior member

Dr Squat

Posted
  • Author
Posted
My apoligies Dr Squat, I can see my last posting has the ability to hijack your training log. If it does head that way, we should move it to the BB/PL forum.

Don't worry, he loves the extra views ;)

Haha. Both Fryup and I are pretty competitive. It has gone way beyond squats, bench and deadlifts. We even try to beat each other in terms on views on this forum. :D

Tonka, you can hijack my log as much as you like. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Dr Squat Senior member

Dr Squat

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Monday 19 October 2009- Posterior Chain

Giant Camber Bar 15" Box Squats +40kg chains 60x5, 100x5, 140x5, 180x3, 220x3, 260X3

Pleased with 260 plus the chains for reps. 300 raw squat feels like a reality in the not too distant future. That is exciting. :)

Deadlifts 2x70x5 120x5 170x3 220x3 250x3

I was a bit jaded after my squats. Pleased to get 250 for 3. My deadlift is also on the improve. I feel like my technique is getting closer.

Glute ham raise 4 sets

Lying leg curl 5 sets

Reverse hyper 20x10 40x10x3

Standing abs 3 sets

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Popular Contributors

    Nobody has received reputation this week.

×
×
  • Create New...