Fasted Cardio

[ohjoshua]

It is fairly commonly excepted (since body for life?) that a greater proportion of fat is used as a fuel source if glycogen stores are low/depleted.

I was taught other wise that it doesnt work that way... If glycogen stores can not meet energy demands from the body then protein will be used as a fuel source to fill the defeict (not fat).

Im interested in links to research articles that confirm or disaprove this opinion.

Not so interested in what works for certain people.

Thanks,

Josh

[Optimass]

http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/cyclic1.htm intro

http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/cyclic2.htm talks about cardio effects on ketosis and energy stores etc reference made also to the recarbing of body after depletion inducing higher state of anabolism.

http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/cyclic3.htm

Check out bodyopus too ...

http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/week00.htm

[nicksmith3]

Obviously you're wanting to know this for your own benefit. Maybe check out my latest page on my log and see why fasted cardio is useless when it comes to sparing muscle, and not only that. You won't be able to give your cardio your all because your energy levels will be so low from fasting you won't be able to even deplete enough glycogen from your liver so that you get an elevated metabolic rate during the day.

Cheers! :grin:

[Optimass]

You won't be able to give your cardio your all because your energy levels will be so low from fasting you won't be able to even deplete enough glycogen from your liver so that you get an elevated metabolic rate during the day.

Wow wish I knew that 15 years ago :^o

So Nick your say it won't elevate it at all then .... hmmm.

[nicksmith3]

You won't be able to give your cardio your all because your energy levels will be so low from fasting you won't be able to even deplete enough glycogen from your liver so that you get an elevated metabolic rate during the day.

Wow wish I knew that 15 years ago :^o

So Nick your say it won't elevate it at all then .... hmmm.

I'm sure you would get some glycogen depletion. LOL :shock: It is still CARDIO after all.

But really, what benefit are you muscles getting if you're in a fasted state during training? - Zero.

Optimass you have the experience and i respect that.

So im just throwing out my viewpoints, as we all do on these forums.

[ohjoshua]

Not so interested in what works for certain people.

Im interested in links to research articles that confirm or disaprove this opinion.

Thnx heaps Optimas, exactly what I was after. Just wanted to read it myself.

Obviously you're wanting to know this for your own benefit. Maybe check out my latest page on my log and see why fasted cardio is useless when it comes to sparing muscle, and not only that. You won't be able to give your cardio your all because your energy levels will be so low from fasting you won't be able to even deplete enough glycogen from your liver so that you get an elevated metabolic rate during the day.

Cheers! :grin:

Not so interested in what works for certain people.

Thanks for the effort nick. Yes I want to know for my own benefit.

I Loath mis-infomation. I was just looking for some research links (being lazy).

It seems to be very popular at the moment to recomend fasted cardio and I would like people making these recomendations to do more research before making them.

Cheers,

[Android]

I thnk the controversy over fasted cardio comes about because proponenets of it say they are doing cardio with no carbs in their system and that's why they get such rapid fat loss.

And oppononets say to that, well if you have no carbs then you're catbolic and likely to lose muscle.

A more informed person would realise that 'fasted cardio' is a misnomer and that what a waking person is doing when they get out of bed and straight into cardio is not taking advantage of low carbs (because that's a myth) they are actually using the fatty acids the body has released during sleep. Your body uses fat while you sleep and very little carbs, HGH release causes fatty acids to be brought out of storage and ready for energy.

30-40 minutes worth of low intensity cardio is enough to drain away those fatty acids and they're gone, you've just lost the fat.

Sure you'll burn some carbs but it's not quite in the equation as much as people believe it to be. Going to bed low on carbs is fine as long as you have protein, having protein before cardio is also fine, we can all spare our muscles and lose fat at the same time.

It's what I believe anyway, take from it what you will. Research yourself about the release of fatty acids during sleep from HGH releases and how that is the energy source you can tap into right away with light and steady morning cardio. No conversion necessary the body has the fat fuel ready to use.

[nicksmith3]

I think ALL of you would be interested in hearing ALOT of the science behind my approach. From someone who is studying for their PHD in nutritional science, protein synthesis. - Layne Norton.

You willl find this article interesting i'm sure, Android, Optimass esp.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne36.htm

Cheers!

[Android]

Those articles are old he probably has his PhD by now, does he? when BB.com was just getting started he wrote those...what 5 years ago now.

I do love PhD students, they are encouraged to think outside the box and come up with a thesis to explore that hasn't been done before, this leads to new ideas and keeps the industry on it's toes, great reading

[nicksmith3]

Those articles are old he probably has his PhD by now, does he? when BB.com was just getting started he wrote those...what 5 years ago now.

I do love PhD students, they are encouraged to think outside the box and come up with a thesis to explore that hasn't been done before, this leads to new ideas and keeps the industry on it's toes, great reading

They may be old, but from speaking to him on several occasions i know for a fact he still utilises what he has written in that article. All good stuff, as far as i'm concerned.

[Optimass]

You won't be able to give your cardio your all because your energy levels will be so low from fasting you won't be able to even deplete enough glycogen from your liver so that you get an elevated metabolic rate during the day.

Wow wish I knew that 15 years ago :^o

So Nick your say it won't elevate it at all then .... hmmm.

I'm sure you would get some glycogen depletion. LOL :shock: It is still CARDIO after all.

But really, what benefit are you muscles getting if you're in a fasted state during training? - Zero.

Optimass you have the experience and i respect that.

So im just throwing out my viewpoints, as we all do on these forums.

just rippin your chain you are right in the context of what real benefit is it to developing muscle yes ... but fasted cardio for the benefit of burning fat. And isn't that what we were tryin to establish ...

[Optimass]

Another good article ...

http://www.tomvenuto.com/articles/morni ... burn.shtml

[Android]

until I read this forum I didn't know there was a split in the community around this, I just thought everyone knew it worked...apparently not.

Every single BB I know or have heard of does morning cardio, or they're not a BB that's prepared for a show before. I guess cardio after workout doesn't work either for the very same reason .... yeah right

oh and must add, I have NEVER done a post-workout cardio session. I feel 'uncomfortable' about workouts that take up to an hour as it is without going longer and no proper meal after the weights session.

I've seen and heard of Pros doing it, and they look amazing, so this year is the first time I will do this in an effort to get below 5% bf...but if it backfires and I lose size I'll be a sad Android :-|

[Optimass]

I do the post training cardio - but take a WPI shake in water straight after transition from weights to cardio. (Weights 40 - 50 minutes / cardio HIIT 20 minutes - as a standard rule). I only extend the cardio after fat loss starts to slow down - so add 10 minutes coming into cut each time - that way I don't build up a tolerance too fast and plateu .... Not sure how scientific that theory is to be honest - but assuming your body builds tolerance to alcohol/food and exercise in general I figured it was a sound idea.

I don't think you'd lose size either based on the pics you posted I'm assuming you left carbs in right up until the last week and over hydrated before you cut back on fluids before that show???

[Android]

yeah that's right, over-hydrated, maintenance carbs only, then dehydrate and carb/fats up.

Like you I also build cardio up slowly, tolerance in this case means 'fitness'. You get more fit so same amount doesn't get heart rate up like it used to right?

Morning cardio I do outside...first couple of weeks are walking, then power walking, then power walking with jogging inter-mixed, finally a steady jog in the final 2-3 weeks...all flat, no hills....oh and not yet :-)

Will try the post workout cardio then in a few weeks though to kick-start my cardio, cheers O.

[Lamborghinilova]

If you decided to take some BCAA pills inbetween the weights and cardio, would it prevent catabolism, whicle still allowing fat to be burned?

Edit: I have just read that article(posted by optimass), and it is really useful, although i am still confused about the effect of a pre cardio protein shake on fat burning...

[Android]

If you decided to take some BCAA pills inbetween the weights and cardio, would it prevent catabolism, whicle still allowing fat to be burned?

Edit: I have just read that article(posted by optimass), and it is really useful, although i am still confused about the effect of a pre cardio protein shake on fat burning...

I used to drop BCAAs (MHP A-Bombs) before my morning cardio and I lost the fat, can't see a problem.

Perhaps a cardio session lasting an hour requires protein-sparring techniques, mine was on average 30 mins and never went over 40 mins. I would suggest to anyone they just get up and do the cardio and review the results at the end of each week and tweak their plan according ot their needs which may include time limitations (contest date 12 weeks away or 6 weeks away will have different impact on how you make changes)

[Lamborghinilova]

Yea, a lot of the literature that i have read suggests that limiting cardio to 30 mins is a good strategy. But thanks for the advice.