Hypertrophic and strenght gains at the same time.

[Varven]

From what I understand lower reps train for strenght and higher reps seem to promote size.

Therefore how likely am i to experience results in both departments from mixing rep ranges in one work out.

Ill illustrate this through an example of one workout, say for instance Chest . Lets say I train each part once in 7 days on a relatively high volume basis. My mode of attack would be; first excercise focus on a primary compound movement for strenght, followed with other excercises promoting higher reps.

EG:

Flat BB bench press: 4 sets 4 - 6 reps.

that would be my primary strenght gaining excercise.

Followed by:

Incline DB chest presses: 3 sets: 8 - 12 reps

Flat D B flyes: 3 sets: 8 - 12 reps

Does that make sense ?

Will combining the 2 give me bits of both results ?

Problems I see with this; If I go balls to the walls on the first excercise for strenght, doubt how much energy Ill have left to train on the other 2 exs.

This thread is stemmed at the ideas that popped into my head after the other post by Ash.

[Growth]

Sounds good in principal, but i think if your going to base your workouts around gaining both strength and achiving hypertrophy, then it would be best to do say 6-8 weeks of one style and then 6-8 of the other.

Im not sure if combining them into the same workout will give the same results as if you were to try the above method. I would say it would be a lot more taxing on your body to constantly incorperate both methods into the same workout.

Thats just my opinion though, someone out there probabley knows more about it.

[jono]

i put on size using low reps. its different for everyone

[Pseudonym]

I tried doing it that way. I'm not sure that it was any better than doing a routine for hypertrophy followed by a routine for strength. But I certainly don't think it was any worse.

Give it a go, and tell us what you think. Trying new things to find what works keeps the game interesting!

[deegee]

I am another low reps 6-8 for size person. Higher reps build my strength not size.

[ExpensiveUrine]

Here's an example of a leg workout. Basically I modified Lyle's routine to suit my lower back. It's somewhat low volume simply because I can't tolerate high volume right now (I'm getting back into it). If I feel like my back is improving after a while I'll probably Squat/SLDL on both days and add more volume.

Monday - Lower Body (Quadriceps emphasis)

Squat 2-3 x 6-8

Lying leg curl 1-2 x 10-12

Leg press 2-3 x 6-8

Standing leg curl 1-2 x 10-12

Standing calf raise 2-3 x 6-8

Seated calf raise 1-2 x 10-12

Thursday - Lower Body (Hamstrings emphasis)

SLDL 2-3 x 6-8

Leg press 1-2 x 10-12

Lying leg curl 2-3 x 6-8

Leg extension 1-2 x 10-12

Standing calf raise 2-3 x 6-8

Seated calf raise 1-2 x 10-12

[Ash]

While the science behind the concept of lower rep training improving strength and higher reps improving size is sound from what I can tell, it's probably a bit oversimplified. When last did you see a small powerlifter?

Given the differences in individual experiences, you may not progress exactly as you expect to on either a low rep or high rep routine. There's only one way to find out what's going to work for you and that's to try it.

Personally - I don't like low rep work. IMO the closer you get to a 1RM lift, the higher your chance of injury. I get hurt easily in the 4-6 range but I am reasonably OK at 8-12.

Anyway, assuming I didn't have such fragile tendons and I could do low rep work, I wouldn't try to do both low reps and high reps for the same bodypart in one session.

I would either separate them totally into an 8-12 week cycle for each type of training or alternate low rep sessions with high rep - one of each in every 7-10 day period (assuming my overall volume was low enough to allow me to train the bodypart that frequently).

Also - why even bother with DB flies? If you really hammer your chest with the 7 sets of pressing movements, I can't see what flies are going to do for you in terms of growth. Sounds like a waste of energy to me but then again, that's just my ever so humble opinion. :wink:

[jono]

While the science behind the concept of lower rep training improving strength and higher reps improving size is sound from what I can tell, it's probably a bit oversimplified. When last did you see a small powerlifter?

Given the differences in individual experiences, you may not progress exactly as you expect to on either a low rep or high rep routine. There's only one way to find out what's going to work for you and that's to try it.

Personally - I don't like low rep work. IMO the closer you get to a 1RM lift, the higher your chance of injury. I get hurt easily in the 4-6 range but I am reasonably OK at 8-12.

Anyway, assuming I didn't have such fragile tendons and I could do low rep work, I wouldn't try to do both low reps and high reps for the same bodypart in one session.

I would either separate them totally into an 8-12 week cycle for each type of training or alternate low rep sessions with high rep - one of each in every 7-10 day period (assuming my overall volume was low enough to allow me to train the bodypart that frequently).

Also - why even bother with DB flies? If you really hammer your chest with the 7 sets of pressing movements, I can't see what flies are going to do for you in terms of growth. Sounds like a waste of energy to me but then again, that's just my ever so humble opinion. :wink:

i agree on the flys - if you doing your pressing movements with good form, (all the way down to a stretch, then controlled press) i dont see how flys would add anything

[Marcus]

I wouldn't worry too much about the science of training. Just train hard & heavy, mainly compund movements. Eat heaps & you will get bigger & stronger. That's all there is too it really.

[kenzie chic]

At the moment I am incorporating extreme rep ranges into each workout and have seen significant strength gains from it and have lost about 3 kg of fat whilst putting on 1kg of muscle (quite a lot for a girl over the last 6 weeks)

For each exercise that I do I do 4 sets of the following reps 5, 10, 20 & 30 with decreasing rest between each set as the weight gets lighter. This works through all the phases of strength, hypertrophy, toning and endurance in one session. A different form of training and not something I would do all the time, but it is good to do something different every once in a while.

Give it a go sometime, I am absolutely dead by the end of it!

[sponge]

While the science behind the concept of lower rep training improving strength and higher reps improving size is sound from what I can tell, it's probably a bit oversimplified. When last did you see a small powerlifter?

Given the differences in individual experiences, you may not progress exactly as you expect to on either a low rep or high rep routine. There's only one way to find out what's going to work for you and that's to try it.

Personally - I don't like low rep work. IMO the closer you get to a 1RM lift, the higher your chance of injury. I get hurt easily in the 4-6 range but I am reasonably OK at 8-12.

Anyway, assuming I didn't have such fragile tendons and I could do low rep work, I wouldn't try to do both low reps and high reps for the same bodypart in one session.

I would either separate them totally into an 8-12 week cycle for each type of training or alternate low rep sessions with high rep - one of each in every 7-10 day period (assuming my overall volume was low enough to allow me to train the bodypart that frequently).

Also - why even bother with DB flies? If you really hammer your chest with the 7 sets of pressing movements, I can't see what flies are going to do for you in terms of growth. Sounds like a waste of energy to me but then again, that's just my ever so humble opinion. :wink:

i agree on the flys - if you doing your pressing movements with good form, (all the way down to a stretch, then controlled press) i dont see how flys would add anything

Of course heavy pressing movements will promote more growth than something like flies, but I believe that they have their place.. most exercises have their place. Of course you wouldn't base a whole chest workout session (unless you were perhaps going for a shock or something) on them.

I personally do DB flies a lot of the time (after my pressing sets) because I think they work wonders.

Back to the original topic of this thread regarding # of reps - look up periodisation. The basic point of it is that you switch everything up (rest time, # of reps, etc). At least this way you try to keep your body guessing

[Cornfed]

I remember reading a book by Fred "Dr. Squat" Hatfield where this issue was addressed. He thought that maximum growth of the structure of muscle happens when you do sets of 8-12 reps. However, the more weight you do those sets at, the greater the gains, so you should also do sets at a higher weight and lower reps to increase your strength. There was also the issue of increasing the amount of mitochondria and other cytoplasmic contents of cells, which he though would occur at sets of about 20 reps.

So the recommendation was to do six sets per exercise - two of 3-4 reps followed by two of 8-12, followed by two sets of ~20 reps. I tried this and it actually worked very well for a while, but like everything you eventually plateau.

[ExpensiveUrine]

I should have posted links to these earlier. They're periodization articles written by Lyle McDonald.

Part 1.

Part 2.

Part 3.