New to this

[Paganz]

Hey everybody, I have been reading the forums for a couple of weeks now and thought I ought to say hi and give you a chance to critique my program.

I started excercising about a year to eighteen months ago due to a back injury I suffered which I then compounded over a number of years by industrial abseiling. Leaving my upper and lower body feeling detatched from each other. :?

I was sooo bad that at one period there I could not turn my head or body to the right at all and I would suffer periodic locks where my whole back would go into spasm sometimes for hours/days. :cry:

This lead me to be very inactive believing that I would be active again when my back improved. Of course this wasnt the case and the less excercise I did the worse it became.

A dr I came across pushed me off to pilates which although not my cup of tea for long term enjoyment, gave me an instant if only brief and minor feeling of relief in my back. That showed me what Im sure you all know, you have to "Use it or Lose it" to coin a cliche and that to get better I had to do some excercise. :naughty:

I found that if I looked at pictures and videos of healthy people excercising and exactly mimicked the way they held their heads and shoulders how they stood and did the excercises with extremely light weight and massive control that my body occasionally would "click" into place and I would feel the warmth of blood flowing down an arm or into my glutes, a hand all sorts of places where tightly held muscles were restricting blood flow.

I also found that I had some huge muscular imbalances that were causing me postural problems also contributing to my back pain, and if I didnt excercise at least every second day I regressed quickly back into back spasm.

When I say I started light I mean with two spinlock dumbells and a total of 8.5 kgs to go between them. I was only able to do body weight squats for a total of about 4 a set(I could squat up and down more than that but only 4 times maintaining the correct back alignment etc, and I mean just my weight no bar or anything) and my program was a light all over body prog.

Initially I dieted and excercised my way down from 98kgs at 176cms (I dont think any of it muscle) to 77kgs at 176cms (now maybe a little muscle). During this time I progressed to walking then jogging on a treadmill and doing bodyweight excercises like push-ups as well as my "Weights"

I have now gotten to a point where I am lifting actual if not heavy weights and have progressed my program to a split. I have trained my body weight back to 83kgs and would now like you guys to give me some educated pointers as up till now I have been doing this out of neccessity, now I enjoy it and have even got in behind the diet thing which you guys can also have a look at.

Ok I do weights one day and cardio the next and when the body says stop I have a day off, usually weights,cardio,weights,cardio day off

or weights, weights,cardio,day off you get the idea and I try and have no more than one day off if poss certainly no more than two.

Weights 1

DB Bench 6-8 reps 5 sets

incline db press 6-8 reps 4 sets

incline flys 10 reps 3 sets

decline db press 6-8 reps 4 sets

decline flys 10 reps 3 sets

Weights 2

db curl 6-8 reps 4 sets

Hammer curl 8-10 reps 4 sets

preacher curl 10 reps 3 sets

dbell extension 10 reps 3 sets

skull crushers 8-10 reps 4 sets

dbell kickbacks 10 reps 2 sets

dips 10-12 4 sets

Weights 3

Shoulder press db 10 reps 3 sets

lat raises db 8-10 reps 3 sets

rear lat raises bent w db 10 reps 3 sets

upright row bb 8-10 reps 4 sets

shrugs db 10-12 reps 4 sets

db rows 10-12 reps 3 sets

Bent rows 8-10 reps 3 sets

deadlifts 6-8 reps 3 sets

Weights 4

Squats 10-12 reps 5 sets

legext 12 reps 5 sets

Ham curl 8-10 4 sets

calf raise 10-12 3 sets

stiff legged dead 6-8 reps 3 sets

Cardio

cardio 1

30 minutes running on treadmill 20 minutes steepest hill incline 10 minutes on flat followed by 3 sets crunches to failure

cardio 2

5min hill on treadmill

3x20 squat thrusts 15 second rest break

5min stationary bike

5min hill on treadmill

3x20 squat thrusts 15 seconds rest break

5 min bike

30 floorwipers with 40kgs on bb

cardio 3

12 pull-ups

25 deadlifts with 60kgs

30 push-ups

25 boxjumps

30 floorwipers with 40kgs on bb

25 single arm clean and press with 17kgs

12 pull-ups

15 minute hill run

(yes yes this IS half that 300 fitness test thing with a run tacked on and I know that it was'nt meant to be done all the time thats why I modified it)

Now to my diet (todays although largely always the same just times vary do to when I get up etc)

M1

100grams oats cup milk(Skim)

1 protein shake w water

M2

protein shake w water

dry vogels bread (12 grams carbs .8 of which sugar so good complex carbs??? the non-sugar bit I mean)

m3

350grams steak dry fry no oil

m4 pre workout

4egg whites scrambled dash milk

2x vogels brad

2xslice hi protein cheese 10g protein 2.0 grams carb 2.8g fat

m5 post workout

1 protein shake imediately

within half hour to hour after workout 185gram tin tuna

baked potato with cottage cheese

m6

185 tin tuna

fruit

m7

protein shake of cottage cheese

just to reiterate I am 176 cm and 83kg's I want to post photos but am too embarressed to ask anyone I know and with what I have tried to take myself I might as well draw you a picture......with my left hand.......in crayon!! Maybe one day Ill get the confidence to ask for some advice and help with this.

My goals were just to try and be pain free but now the more I do and the more I read of what can and has been achieved by people I am more inspired and now my goal is to come up with a realistic goal which sounds funny but I think that any goals I have set myself in the past have been more of a limiting factor rather than somthing to work towards.

Any comments or advice would be appreciated and if you have read this far you deserve a medal!!!!

[teamfatboy]

Hey everybody, I have been reading the forums for a couple of weeks now and thought I ought to say hi and give you a chance to critique my program.

I started excercising about a year to eighteen months ago due to a back injury I suffered which I then compounded over a number of years by industrial abseiling. Leaving my upper and lower body feeling detatched from each other. :?

Any comments or advice would be appreciated and if you have read this far you deserve a medal!!!!

Welcome, and well done on making the progress you've done thus far There are a lot of sources of great advice on here, along with people in a similar predicament to you - so keep it up!

[SamWelly]

Really good first post bud!

Diet isn't really up to standard to be honest.Protein shakes are great PWO, and Early morning - Meat and eggs should make up the most of your protein requirements. 1kg of chicken breast has 300grams of protein, so you get an idea of its importance in a high protein weight lifting regime.

Don't bother splitting out the egg whites, just eat them whole. I have been eating 15-20 eggs a day cooked whole for the last 8 months and have a colesterol level of 3.5

Your training has a lot of volume. Volume is essential for growth, but the huge amount you are doing may (or will) be hindering your strength gains, which will lead to less muscle stimulation. Personaly I find 2-3 excercises per muscle group is more than enough.

Nice cardio workout! I take it a trainer set you up with this? Interval training is awesome IMO and reduces muscle burn off when compared to longer flat line cardio sessions.

Don't worry about photos, measurements are more important in my opinion.

[poos_n_wees]

Wow, you've definitely come a long way with progress.. very admirable to say the least!

IMO your diet's actually not that bad, maybe just a few tweaks here and there. But it depends largely on what your goals are. So now that you're relatively pain-free when lifting, are you looking at more aesthetic goals? Like wanting to put on a bit more muscle mass... or are you still wanting to diet a little longer?

Welcome to the board though.. just looking at what you do for cardio has definitely motivated me to get off my lazy butt !!

[INSPECTOR64]

Welcome to tha forums Pagan.Great intro to,I hope all your hard work pays off for ya.

[morala]

Nice intro mate. Glad to see you did something about your predicament. You seem much better off for it.

I agree that there is a bit too much volume. Especially for chest day. 19 sets is a bit too much. 10-12 sets for large muscle groups like chest and back is sufficient.

I think your nutrition is good but in saying that, Sam Welly knows his stuff. I do agree about eating eggs whole as well.

Great first post and I look forward to reading this journal.

[Paganz]

Teamfatboy I had already read your journal and really admired the way you dedicated yourself to the cause, especially coming from a place where you considered yourself unfit and out of shape but you really ground it out. Theres six pages of dedication and sweat there.

Diet isn't really up to standard to be honest.Protein shakes are great PWO, and Early morning - Meat and eggs should make up the most of your protein requirements. 1kg of chicken breast has 300grams of protein, so you get an idea of its importance in a high protein weight lifting regime.

Hey Samwelly I have read a lot of your posts and bearing that in mind I have dropped the protein shakes to one mid-morning, one post w/o and one more somewhere in the day (if extra hungry or as a convenience) Breakfast is now a four egg omelete with a can of tuna or chicken on a slice of vogels bread and other meals are based around chicken tuna steak and or eggs. I am also having five real meals a day now and the shakes are purely supplemental.

Your training has a lot of volume. Volume is essential for growth, but the huge amount you are doing may (or will) be hindering your strength gains, which will lead to less muscle stimulation. Personaly I find 2-3 excercises per muscle group is more than enough.

Nice cardio workout! I take it a trainer set you up with this? Interval training is awesome IMO and reduces muscle burn off when compared to longer flat line cardio sessions.

Don't worry about photos, measurements are more important in my opinion.

As far as the volume goes I was doing a much shorter w/o while I was on shift work(4 days on,2 days 2 nights then 4 days off) but currently I am on holiday then company is sending me to massey fro 3 months so I figured that I would try and be serious over this time since I had the oppurtunity for far greater recovery times unbroken sleep patterns that I would be able to handle the higher volume? (so far I think I have but I AM on holiday)How would I gauge this?

The cardio I came up with myself after reading a bit and I did a lot more running when I was trying to loose fat. Now that I have switched to trying to build muscle I have switched to interval training as I also think it is better for maintaining muscle while burning fat as long as you dont use too high a rep range and go for too long I think?

Wow, you've definitely come a long way with progress.. very admirable to say the least!

Thanks heaps.

IMO your diet's actually not that bad, maybe just a few tweaks here and there. But it depends largely on what your goals are. So now that you're relatively pain-free when lifting, are you looking at more aesthetic goals? Like wanting to put on a bit more muscle mass... or are you still wanting to diet a little longer?

I am definately looking to improve size and strength now that I feel it is achievable. To that end I have increased the volume of my training, food intake and sleep/rest. The food intake being a big one I am trying hard to increase this and keep it clean.

I think the biggest thing for me now is patience I have played with a number of aspects of my training now I have to give it time to see whether it is working or not as I am so new to this.

Thanks again everyone.

[SamWelly]

Your right about the interval training. It has less of a an effect on muscle loss as during the recovery phase (the rests between your interval periods) the heart and lungs work together to break down the lactic acid - and use oxygen to convert stored carbohydrates into energy. It has also been showen to burn more calories than a typical long distance low intensity regime.

Sounds like you are getting the diet sorted. I personally stay away from dairy as much as possible tho. Milk is for babys, and cheese is for fat people (In America yogurt is in the desert section from what I hear...)

If you eat well (food that has touched less hands in the production line is generally better for you) and keep your training consistant then you will grow well. If you nail out the diet and training to begin with then you will save yourself a lot of wasted time and grow a lot faster. I messed around for a year when I first started training - ripped my pec with dumbell presses (part of it has visably torn off where my sternum is), and ruined my posture by not training my lower back.

[Paganz]

Sounds like you are getting the diet sorted. I personally stay away from dairy as much as possible tho. Milk is for babys, and cheese is for fat people :lol: (In America yogurt is in the desert section from what I hear...)

Yeah I used to like quite a bit of yohgurt, now I know how much sugar you are getting with pretty much all em now I just stay away mostly. I used to eat tonnes of cheese too until I found out it is all fat sigh one more off the list. The cheese I eat now it a super lite protein fortified cheese not quite the same but healthy and its getting so I cant tell the difference these days.

If you eat well (food that has touched less hands in the production line is generally better for you) and keep your training consistant then you will grow well. If you nail out the diet and training to begin with then you will save yourself a lot of wasted time and grow a lot faster. I messed around for a year when I first started training - ripped my pec with dumbell presses (part of it has visably torn off where my sternum is), and ruined my posture by not training my lower back.

Ouch sounds like a tough start.....what excercises did you do to bring your lower back in-line?.

I note from your journal that military presses really challenge your core (when over 80kgs currently I am doing standing db press for the same reason) I wonder if I would be better to change to a military bb press seems as there is a little less isolation in the military press compared to the db press so I might see better core strength improvement.

[teamfatboy]

Hi Pagan,

thanks for the kind words - there's no doubt that the support you get from the folks on here will help you as it's helped me. I know I've learned a lot from many of the people here - and they also keep me honest!

I think your goals are definitely achievable - and I completely understand where you're coming from with the self-limiting thing..if someone had told me a few years ago the sorts of things I do now, I'd have been the first to laugh...

Keep talking to us - and we look forward to hearing your improvements

TFB

[Pseudonym]

Welcome, Pagan. Like the others have said, great intro!

I don't really have much to add that hasn't already been said, but here are just a few things that comes to mind.

Photos - if you don't have a tripod, or a photographer, you could try taking them in the bathroom mirror?

Eggs - I don't necessarily disagree with what SamWelly has said, but I wouldn't recommend 15-20 eggs a day. Regardless of the cholesterol, each egg has 6g of fat, so 20 eggs = 120g. That's quite a lot of fat, especially from just one source.

Cheese - The trick here is to use cheese as part of the fat content in a meal, and any protein that comes with it is a bonus. For instance, tuna (canned in brine) and pasta sauce is a good meal, but has virtually no fat. Melting some cheese over it improves the taste and the nutritional specs. Edam is good as a relatively high-protein, low-fat option.

Yoghurt - Same as above, really. You can get unsweetened yoghurt, and Easy-Yo's Greek yoghurt is excellent.

[Paganz]

Thanks for the advice everyone its great to have so many knowledgeable people around and so many good forums to read I have learnt so much from the posts etc.

I have been eating probably over twice what I was and have been seeing huge differences in the gym. I cant believe I was eating so little really it has made such an incredible difference.

I havnt put on any fat either in fact I believe I am visibly leaner for eating more. I understand the science behind it now but the whole idea is whack!

I am still working on how many carbs to have and when, I am trying to confine them largely to breakfast and pre workout, the rest of the time is mostly protein(chicken tuna eggs protein powder) and fruit. I am trying not to have any carbs at night though. The carbs are largely rolled oats, baked potato, vogels bread. How do others spread there carbs is there a theory??

[SamWelly]

I am not concerned to much personally about getting fat from eating eggs.... only 1.5 grams of it is saturated.

120grams of fat in a 3500-4000 calorie diet is not much...

You should aim for no more than 25% of your calories from fats, and 7% from saturated fats. So for me, 120grams (based on a 3500 calorie diet) is less than half of my recomended saturated fat intake.

Colesterol sits around 350mg per 10 eggs, which is about the max daily recomended intake. Excersize seems to offset this for me tho...

I carb up in the morning (you need to wake your body from starvation mode), a little at lunch, a little bit more at 330pm to wake myself up and keep focused at work (Probably fruit is best here for me - need a little sugar high), an hour before workout I have a fair bit of carbs (train at night - and need the energy), then a nice good meal after with a small amount of brown rice. No carbs an hour before bed.

Works for me. Not sure if it is ideal.

You don't NEED fats to have protein synthesis, but it is ideal to have a complete meal. A few fat free meals will do you some good...

[SamWelly]

There is also very little if any scientific evidence that shows a corelation between nutritional cholesterol levels and blood colesterol levels - I have this debate every day with flatmates/friends/family who can't get past the egg trays stacking up. :roll: :pfft:

[Dale]

Sam, get your bloods done regularly and keep an eye on your cholesterol over the next few years, it is cumulative in its effect/detriments to your arteries...try eating McDonalds 6 nights a week for 2-3 months and see what happens to your cholesterol...i guarantee it will go up significantly. I wouldn't recommend you eat as many egg yolks as you do but if you do then just keep an eye on your levels is all i'm saying

[SamWelly]

Yeah bud, probably a good idea. I get my blood checked every 3 months anyway. Aside from eggs, whey and meat (fish included) I am running out of protein sources

Mcdonalds is awefull man! Half the calories in a burger are from the fats. I can only imagine what else it does to your insides :shifty:

[Mike Zero]

So who are you, Sam?

[Paganz]

Yeah bud, probably a good idea. I get my blood checked every 3 months anyway. Aside from eggs, whey and meat (fish included) I am running out of protein sources

Mcdonalds is awefull man! Half the calories in a burger are from the fats. I can only imagine what else it does to your insides :shifty:

Have you seen that documentary by Morgan Spurlock supersize me or that other one fastfood nation by Micheal Moore I think.

In the first one he goes from a largely organic vegetarian diet(His girlfriend is an organic vegetarian chef which sounds bloody awful if you ask me) that he includes meat in for himself I think but largely healthy anyway. To eating Maccas 3 times a day everyday for a month I think. Dr's test him before during and after the experiment with amazing results.

His liver starts to resemble that of a long-term alcoholic and the drs all independantly advise him to quit the diet. I never eat the stuff if I want fast food Ill have a kebab instead.

[Paganz]

There is also very little if any scientific evidence that shows a corelation between nutritional cholesterol levels and blood colesterol levels - I have this debate every day with flatmates/friends/family who can't get past the egg trays stacking up. :roll: :pfft:

and surely genetics would play a part here my fathers side of the family and seemingly I have really low cholesterol levels.

[Paganz]

I have now gone to Massey and have had to join a gym there(at the uni its pretty good) I am finding that going to a gym with lots of people that my workout (despite having to wait a little bit for equipment) is actually a bit quicker as I have less rest time and is a little more intense.

I think my conversions from the pounds I usually use to the kgs at the gym have been a bit off and I am probably lifting a bit more I think.

As far as food goes I am eating more and more and more I must be eating 4 times more than before including 2 mass building shakes. The more I eat the better I am feeling but there must be a limit to this. I put all my food on the table for a day and go like holy Sh%$T I cant surely be eating that much but I am.

I guess if I am not putting on fat then I cant be eating too much.

[poos_n_wees]

As far as food goes I am eating more and more and more I must be eating 4 times more than before including 2 mass building shakes. The more I eat the better I am feeling but there must be a limit to this. I put all my food on the table for a day and go like holy Sh%$T I cant surely be eating that much but I am.

I guess if I am not putting on fat then I cant be eating too much.

Haha! I'm the opposite. Have all my food out and am like "WTF?! Is that it??!" I would keep an eye on your measurements.. if you're gaining too fast, then scale back a bit on the foodz.

All the extra cals must be doing wonders with your strength though!

[SamWelly]

Just take in slightly less calories on your days off and you should be able to stay fairly lean while still being strong. Carbing up an hour before you train helps a lot with strength.

If you want a good Post Workout mass gaining shake then buy some cheap Whey Isolate/concentrate blend and add to it 30-40 grams of Dextrose for PWO insulin spike (available at New World) 1 Tablespoon of Olive Oil (Essential fats, and 119 calories) and Creatine/Kre Alkaline powder - For a cut then reduce the dextrose and add in 5g Glutamine PWO.

[samoan_muscle]

Just take in slightly less calories on your days off and you should be able to stay fairly lean while still being strong. Carbing up an hour before you train helps a lot with strength.

If you want a good Post Workout mass gaining shake then buy some cheap Whey Isolate/concentrate blend and add to it 30-40 grams of Dextrose for PWO insulin spike (available at New World) 1 Tablespoon of Olive Oil (Essential fats, and 119 calories) and Creatine/Kre Alkaline powder - For a cut then reduce the dextrose and add in 5g Glutamine PWO.

Shucks no-no on the fats PWO buddy..you should never do this.

You should minimize fat intake to zero if possible 2 hours or so post-workout.

[SamWelly]

Really?? Had never heard that. Should probably stop hitting back whole eggs after training then as well... :evil: :-s

Was suggested the above shake by a mate of mine who is pretty massive.

Guessing he meant Dextrose Post Work Out, Olive Oil Pre Work Out?

[Dale]

agree with samo_muscle, fat at that time will delay resynthesis rates for your protein and carbs