DRUG TEST ALL CLASSES AT NZFBB NATIONAL

[Growing Concern]

2 guns. Good on ya for doing 4 years natural first. Some can't even do a week.

No The guy isn't behind bars, different person. However he is a sick puppy.

Melbot you made some good points about a natural section and not so natural but we all know some guys on the gear will still attempt to compete in a natural section in order to get that desired win.

Who knows now what will ever happen with regards to testing. I guess as long as we come in bigger harder and leaner than our previous comp then we have all learnt something, win lose gear or not aye.

[ED_AISH]

well no because i wen to see him after i started the gear so natural test production was not able to be tested.

i trained for 4 years before i started the gear. i have pics of me when i was natural if u would liek to see..

Na its all good 2guns - I am just hassling more than anything.

My choice is to stay natural and it would be cool to know for sure the other guys up on stage next to me were also playing by the rules but each to their own... (and I don't disrespect those that choose otherwise) Hopefully I can be somewhat completive but if I cant I will bow out b4 juicing up.

And hay it would be cool to be up against some one on gear and whip their ass.

:pfft:

Maybe they should start a new class and test for gear and you can't compete in it unless you test positive.

:pfft:

[IronGame]

I also know people that are very sick from drug abuse, none of whom used responsibly and they attribute many of there health issues to drugs other than steroids, I know a guy on full time dialasis who was a top NZ competitor ( won Mr NZ multiple times ) got a pro card, competed against Coleman and the boys at different times, and did all this without ever using an injectable!!!! ( ONLY ORALS ) hence the dialasis + diuretics, pain killers and Coke!

Steroids ( especially in injectable form ) are in my opinion one of the least harmfull substances in a BB'rs arsenal.

[IronGame]

I trained for 5 years before I started using, did a few cycles and then made the decision to go "on" full time, I also get bloods done regularly and have shown no ill effects apart from slightly raised cholesterol which can be controlled.

[Pseudonym]

i trained for 4 years before i started the gear. i have pics of me when i was natural if u would liek to see..

I'd be keen to see these, 2guns. Throw them into your journal though, rather than here... We should at least try to keep this topic on track! Besides, your journal will be growing moss if you neglect it much longer. :grin:

But back to the topic at hand...

I don't think the current confused state of affairs is good for the Federation at all. If they are turning a blind eye to the drug situation, they are at best unconcerned and at worst corrupt. If they haven't seen the situation, then they must be out of touch with their members. Either way, it's a very bad look for the Federation.

The question is how to clarify the confusion. Removing the drug ban completely would certainly do that, but it would upset a large number of members. It would also likely further damage the public perception of bodybuilding as a sport.

The only possible alternative I see is to create the non-tested class/competition. I'm sure you'll still get some "enhanced" bodybuilders opting for the guaranteed medal in the "natural" class. But how many? It would have to be few enough to make setting up the "enhanced" class worthwhile.

What do you guys think? Would enough juiced bodybuilders make the switch if they could? Or would too many stay behind and pretend to be natural?

[michaelk]

If they are turning a blind eye to the drug situation, they are at best unconcerned and at worst corrupt. If they haven't seen the situation, then they must be out of touch with their members. Either way, it's a very bad look for the Federation.

It seems to me that you can't please all the people all the time.

Some of you want athletes who pass the test, some want athletes who've never even had a parking ticket and are lifetime naturals, others want the monsters and others want the monsters to pass the test and then they can tell everyone they're part of a natural organization.

Let me assure you all, the heads of the federation (exec committee) live and breathe bodybuilidng as much if not more than you, they also give generously of their time, and many, especially Moe, Mark and Terry, pour huge amounts of money into the federation. Even take a look at who is sponsoring the prize watches for the Taranaki....the Promotor, Phil K!

So, be aware that while you might think they don't have a grasp of what people want because they aren't doing exactly what YOU want, they are trying to do what most want, what the public want, what the sponsors want, what the athletes want, what the volunteers want, what the spectators want,

They have the choice of testing everyone....and running the organization into liquidation: then we have no organization, or testing the major winners and other competitors randomly; acting fiscally responsible, so that when the federation is finacially viable again, sending more athletes overseas representing their country again, and increasing the quality of the shows in nz through prize money, Elite shows, guest posers, Pro Shows.

You can't always have your rice cake and eat it to.....so step up to the plate and volunteer yourselves if your not happy.

PS I volunteer my time coaching kids soccer every year, not the same sport but it gives me fair grounds to comment.

Mr New Zealand

[MasterTel]

Awesome post, Mike, and your kind comments and recognition of the current Executive's intentions and commitment to bodybuilding and our members is much appreciated!

The drug testing issue has, and will always be, a very contentious and tricky topic. Due to the excessive cost of effective testing, we can never catch all those people who are "using". Drug Free NZ do our testing, and they control who gets tested and how many get tested (as they pay for it). And what about people that have used some years in the past and will pass a test now. And how do you define "natural" anyway?

We (NZFBB) have worked extremely hard to pull back the $60K deficit from 2 years ago - we will be in the "black" very soon if not already. Our events are making decent profits, and getting good competitor numbers (averaging over 60 per show so far this year). We will have money next year to once again send competitors overseas, run seminars and workshops, fund athletes to Nationals etc. The introduction of the new NZEPBB organisation with the Elite class and Pro show is another very positive step forward for bodybuilding (IMO) in this country.

So, we are moving forward positively, and hopefully we can make improvements with the drug testing policy to keep more people happy. We won't please everyone, but we do listen to our members so it you don't like how we do things - roll your sleeves up and get more involved yourselves!

[MUSCLEROIDS]

I see that HOG got this going and he was asking if the NZFBB would look at having all competitors getting blood test done 4 weeks out from a comp. This way the NZFBB don’t have to pay for it and they will know that they have natural BB doing there shows.

Yet know ones taking this up. So it looks like you guys still like to have gear boys and girls standing by you.

I for my self would like to do NZFBB but I am a gear user and if they do change I will be up there competing and not having to go to AUS or the USA

michaelk now that you are a IFBB pro can you say that you are still natural and before you got your pro card at any time in your BB time did you think about taking any gear. Why I ask is that the ones doing the novice classes will be thinking that when they get to the open class they will be looking at using gear.

[bigmd]

A very intersesting topic that goes around and around. I belive that with the development of the ammiture elite class as a step in the right direction. I for one when I was using would hve been more than happy to enter in to a class such as the elite class to progress forward for my dream of a pro card. Unfortunatly at the time this was not an option so i decided to do what every other overall MR NZ before me did.

Unfortunatly 2000 was the 1st year of the random testing. i spent the next 5 years involved with NABBA so i could do as i pleased.

For some of you if you who get to go to the worlds or the universe will very quickly be made awear that if you want to be a world champion you will have to seriously put your health on the line. You cannot be a "user" (not an abuser) and think that you will take out the big prize internationally. most of the universe and world champs i have seen are definatly abusers. Condition not size alone will win the big one. and to get that condition these euro boys have some serious habits and and often illegal ones to come in that shreaded.

I realised this and personally made some decisions regarding my supplementation and feel much healthier and forfulled for it. HOWEVER, the post 2000 additions to our sport are more conditiond to the fact that we make an effort to keep Drugs out of BB so the current situation with the testing would seem confusing. All i can say is that I do not wish to see anyones dreams of becoming a Pro squashed, and for my part want to see a federation which has a clear path for all. Natural and those that wish to go to the next level.

We cant stop people drinking, we cant stop people smoking, but over the years we have spent billions ensuring others habits dont effect the health and well being of others. i think with a little patience we can do the same in NZ for Bodybuilding and then we can manage and police the rules well and fairly. with very black and white definations of what is acceptable in each area of your sport.

[Outlaw53]

Firstly, forget about Polygraph testing, (Lie detector). These are crap. Every test is inconclusive.

And people use ADHD medication to mask signs of nervousness anyway, don't they?

I'm told that if you rub Deep Heat on your balls that it will f*ck the test up too!

I've yet to hear of anyone that has actually done it surprisingly! :grin:

That's the problem with the Polygaph, they're are so many ways, or supposed ways, to fool the machine, that no one trusts it.

I have no doubt that most of the time it's probably correct, but I could probably give the same assesment by just looking at someone and asking them a few questions.

What's the differnce?

[Outlaw53]

The only possible alternative I see is to create the non-tested class/competition. I'm sure you'll still get some "enhanced" bodybuilders opting for the guaranteed medal in the "natural" class. But how many? It would have to be few enough to make setting up the "enhanced" class worthwhile.

Be careful here, we discussed doing this in Aust, but were quick to dismiss it.

You can't have tested Classes & non-tested Classes on the same show.

It virtually means that all the competitors who are not in the tested Classes are admiting to drug use.

When we had a think about it, there were many reasons to knock it on the head.

First & foremost for me is for newbies that come along to a show for the first time.

"What's this Class?" "Oh, they're the BBers that use drugs"

Thats gonna encourage new people to come back in a hurry...........not!

It's a very awkward situation.

Spend a fortune & go arse-up, or test one or two per show.

I reckon if you test the Overall winner, then that's better than nothing.

If he passes & someone behind him is on the gear, then who cares?

The Natural guy won & the cheat didn't....................everyone's happy?

Good luck with a solution.

[michaelk]

I see that HOG got this going and he was asking if the NZFBB would look at having all competitors getting blood test done 4 weeks out from a comp. This way the NZFBB don’t have to pay for it and they will know that they have natural BB doing there shows.

michaelk now that you are a IFBB pro can you say that you are still natural and before you got your pro card at any time in your BB time did you think about taking any gear. Why I ask is that the ones doing the novice classes will be thinking that when they get to the open class they will be looking at using gear.

My definition of Natural is someone who has never had anything performance enhancing that is banned, I have had a severe sinus condition since my teens before I began bodybuilding, (including having a MRI on my sinus's) and taken numerous Sinutab's containing ephidrene, precontest I had to drop that form of treatment because of testing, and often had to sleep sitting upright to drain the area and relieve the pain.

I've never used Ephidrene as a fat burner, fat burning is not a problem for me...putting on muscle has always been my challenge.

That is why I've never claimed to be "natural" but do state clearly that I have passed numerous drug tests.

Still competing in the Opens now is Tony Ligaliga and Supri Sos, two examples that you need genetics and hard work first and foremost.

And I'm sure they've beaten more than a few guys on gear (I know Supri beat a guy who failed the test once in the same show!)

I'm curous though about these blood tests, do they pick up metabolites of AAs like deca and stanozolol, or clenbuteral etc? Or just Testosterone?

[waldo]

Can't claim Tony Ligaliga is natural, as much as I would like to say he is, as he failed a drug test and was handed a two year ban.

However, I would say he has never intentionally taken performance enhancing drugs.

[michaelk]

I thought he got 3 or 6 months for BZP in a party pill- not what I'd call Performance Enhancing.

[waldo]

Two years more like, but still a failed test. To quote you "My definition of Natural is someone who has never had anything performance enhancing that is banned".

Judging by my experiences with party pills (dirty things they are too) they act as a wicked diruretic, and that is the exact reason why BZP is banned n the horse-racing industry.

Not to say I am casting aspertions on Tony here, nor is this thread a witch hunt. I happen to think Mr Ligaliga is a fantastic individual who along with the likes of Terry Hills does more than 99.9% of the population for the sport.

[MasterTel]

I thought he got 3 or 6 months for BZP in a party pill- not what I'd call Performance Enhancing.

Unfortunately Tony got a 2 year ban for taking something that is surely only likely to enhance his performance on the dance floor!

Regardless of the performance enhancement argument, surely 2 years is excessive when a 3 month ban or some sort of warning or "suspended sentence" would have been more appropriate?

[michaelk]

To quote you "My definition of Natural is someone who has never had anything performance enhancing that is banned".

Judging by my experiences with party pills (dirty things they are too) they act as a wicked diruretic, and that is the exact reason why BZP is banned n the horse-racing industry.

Not to say I am casting aspertions on Tony here.

Fair call Waldo, I stand correctd-that just shows how little I know about bzp, diuretics or horse racing.

Didn't think you were casting aspertions....just stating facts and clarifying my own misunderstanding about a subject.

[waldo]

Apparently a certain dose of BZP can make a race horse piss 10kg of water in a very short time, making it a perfect diuretic for after weigh in. Got told that little gem by a horse trainer who used to buy heaps of BZP from the store I used to run.

Back to the topic at hand!

[michaelk]

Apparently a certain dose of BZP can make a race horse piss 10kg of water in a very short time, making it a perfect diuretic for after weigh in.

Reminds me of a quote from the book "Confessions of an unlikely bodybuilder"- I would drink donkey urine from the source itself if it made me bigger!

[2guns]

Unfortunately Tony got a 2 year ban for taking something that is surely only likely to enhance his performance on the dance floor!

it supresses appetitie also

[2guns]

and give u energy, maybe one would opt for bzp over ephedrine if they were ignorant of the banned substances and thought bzp would be a legal alternative in their sport.

[rigger]

Just to clarify in case anyone didn't know. Tony was taking an over the counter supplement that contained BZP. It was in a popular fat burner.

At the time of the drug test BZP was legal according to the NZSDA.

By the time the test was processed in Australia months later. Yes months later, BZP was on the WADA and therefore the New Zealand SD Agency banned list. Hows that for unlucky. He was gutted but hey this year he has come back and won the overall again at the South Pacific's.

[2guns]

i find that hard to believe, not saying its untrue.

but if u take something which is legal when they test u surley that would count u out if it became illegal even the day after your drug test :?

[waldo]

Just to clarify in case anyone didn't know. Tony was taking an over the counter supplement that contained BZP. It was in a popular fat burner.

Bloody Slimfast by NFS has a lot to answer for.

[rigger]

It's true. Tony spent a lot of money on a lawyer trying to argue that fact, only for the Tribunal to turn his argument down. I believe it was a Leppin fat burner.