DRUG TEST ALL CLASSES AT NZFBB NATIONAL

[Big_J]

Since when?

since they test for substances that make you not natural as they chemically enhance you... retard

[blairandkelly]

careful big J , no insults :pfft: :pfft: :pfft:

[Growing Concern]

Well as we know this could be a topic that could be disscussed and agrued for a life time but, wow, what a great topic.

I like what you have said Diamond, fantastic and couldn't agree more, as long as members give their address or where they train when they register with the NZFBB instead of a P.O box. (Which is a loophole a lot of competitors on the gear use.) Waldo, also fantastic comments from yourself as well.

What does grate me is that the rules are the rules, it says on the declaration that you should be free from performance enchancing drugs yet competitors who are on the gear knowingly sign this and compete. Where are their morals and lets face it, cheating is cheating, weather there is testing or not is irrelevant. Steriods are a illegal drug in NZ therefore it is cheating.

Would be interested to know what others think. What do you think Melbot or Badell50s?.

The lie detector test is a good one as well, may save cost. Another question, What consitutes Natural?(never used ever, been clean for 10 years or never used long enough to get any gains? etc) I have no idea as what people do in their own time, it is their business but to compete against natural competitors when using is just unfair. But one thing that I do agree on is to train as long and as hard as you can naturally to reach your full potential before having a go. But again when does someone know when they have reached their full potential?

For many of us we all want results passionately and we all want them yesterday(natural or not) but the temptation is always there. But so many bodybuilders start using so early. they think here and now, not about the big picture which is health and future as well. Some close friends of ours have nearly died from their steroid use and it's enough to make you think when you see their quality of life now. They can't even have a good quality workout.

This is an interesting article by Lee Priest Muscle mag issue 61 Aug 07 page 32 natural training.

"Should I use roids?"

"I will give you my opinion on steroid use. Unless you either make your living from competitive bodybuilding or have serious potential to do so, I think you would be a fool to go on the gear. Steroids are illegal, and they can cause many different health problems. That's a risk that professional athletes in many sports are willing to take, but the average guy in the gym should not. You can build a very impressive physique without drugs if you train hard and eat right consistently. Will it be as freaky as the pros' you see in the magazines? No. But unless you were born with the right genetics, no amount of juice is going to make you look like that.

Take your body as far as you can naturally. If you are comtemplating steroids because you think you can be a pro bodybuilder, compete at a local show without them. If you seriously have the type of potential, you will beat out even the guys on gear."

What I do think is this does show, as a hotly debated topic, that there is a market for natural comps, where every competitor is tested and maybe a natural federation where the member fees are at an appropriate level to subsidise these tests. As a natural competitor, it does bum you out when you get beaten and the difference between winning and losing is how much gear you have used or could afford?

cheers

[2guns]

"I will give you my opinion on steroid use. Unless you either make your living from competitive bodybuilding or have serious potential to do so, I think you would be a fool to go on the gear. Steroids are illegal, and they can cause many different health problems. That's a risk that professional athletes in many sports are willing to take, but the average guy in the gym should not. You can build a very impressive physique without drugs if you train hard and eat right consistently. Will it be as freaky as the pros' you see in the magazines? No. But unless you were born with the right genetics, no amount of juice is going to make you look like that.

Take your body as far as you can naturally. If you are comtemplating steroids because you think you can be a pro bodybuilder, compete at a local show without them. If you seriously have the type of potential, you will beat out even the guys on gear."

well for one, hes hardley going to promote it in a fucken muscle magazine is he???

also half these ppl in nz who say they are natural are full of shit anyhow, id love to do sum name dropping and story telling on this site, maybe that would open a few peoples eyes... the nzfbb will never be a natural federation, even the inba wont be... GET REAL PEOPLE!

[2guns]

Thats one way that i think would certainly work as it does not give anyone a chance to get anything out of their system because the tests are conducted in such a way that no one would know when the testing guys might be coming knocking.

yeah diamond your right there, they definitly wouldnt know when the testers come knocking when they give a friends address and a gym that they dont even train at :pfft:

[The Legend Killer]

Thats one way that i think would certainly work as it does not give anyone a chance to get anything out of their system because the tests are conducted in such a way that no one would know when the testing guys might be coming knocking.

yeah diamond your right there, they definitly wouldnt know when the testers come knocking when they give a friends address and a gym that they dont even train at :pfft:

I just had a mental image of a few bodybuilders doing a speedy Gonzales as they see the testing guys entering theit gym lol.

[Growing Concern]

yeah 2 guns you are right, NZFBB and INBA will probably never be natural as to many people take the easy way, so be it who really cares aye. But it only takes a few health issues in the future to say hey told you so but thats your business. You have a good physique and alot of potential as only young. Lets hope it doesn't come and bite you on the arse in 10 years. It just makes me laugh how defensive people on the gear get when topics like this get raised. they started getting on there high horse and swearing etc, instead of having a decent discussion. but opinions are light assholes aye. we all have one.

Instead of commenting on the musclemag quote. you might best to first read the whole article and gather your facts. Lee priests is up front about his own steriod use.

And you are also correct about alot of guys on the gear saying they are natural. I appreciate your honesty about this. It takes a bigger person to admit they are using but those competitors saying they are natural when they are not can only lie for so long and they will get caught out eventually. (egg on there face)

[Nobody]

Since when?

since they test for substances that make you not natural as they chemically enhance you... retard

Sticks and stones...ha ha

Excess creatine chemically enhances you, fake tan chemically enhances your skin colour. Boris wrote an article claiming test was more natural than stuff like creatine it was a good read.

IMO INBA is a natural fed, I don't know anyone in that fed who is on stuff, might be wrong.

As Mack said we need a definition of natural B J b4 gettin 2 hot under the collar

[Big_J]

fair enough.. But really without going into to much detail its quite simple to know what the definition of natural is.. im no scientist i still go to school but really we all know the difference between natural and unnatural, Don't we??

i have contemplated using diuretics for the nationals but have now decided not to because i dont want to get banned if i possibly got tested, having said that if the guy next to me wins how would i have known if he used them or not? thats why i think that testing all class winners is a great idea and since the nzfbb seems to be making great profits as MT said there debt is coming clean then possibly in the future that can go to more testing instead of someones pocket?

[waldo]

Good points nobody.

Back in the early days of the new Olympic Movement (1900-1920) even training was discussed as being banned, to make the competition purely a genetics based arrangement (very aryan). This did not go ahead obviously...but gives you some idea of what 'natural' could be considered.

However, the rules of the NZFBB state that it is aligned with the NZSDA, and anything on their list of no-nos is not considered natural. Therefore, I would say we have a definition of what natural is and isn't.

While the drug policy stands as it is, anyone using banned substances is contravening the rules. It's pretty simple.

[Nobody]

As mack pointed out....how long off is natural?

I think the natuarls in US have to be off for 2 years. might be wrong though on the number. I think that number is a bit short and it should be more like 5 years.

Do we call someone who passes a urine test as natural even if they stopped clenbuteral 2 weeks before.

Check out the Body of Work dvd by Bill Phillips, 2 guys failed the lie detector: FOR THEIR OWN NAME.

[diamond]

Good points nobody.

However, the rules of the NZFBB state that it is aligned with the NZSDA, and anything on their list of no-nos is not considered natural. Therefore, I would say we have a definition of what natural is and isn't.

.

that's how is see it as well.

[Dumbelldog]

A coule of things guys.

Do lie detector tests stand up in a court of law?

The thing with being tested is that it is only illegal to fail, it isn't illegal to juice to the max and clean up for the test if it is going to be at the show that is.

Muscle mania had an article on their website about pro hormones a year or two ago and they made that statement in writing. Prohormones aren't banned from muscle mania but testing positive is! I know some of the guys there weren't natural but it is meant to a natural federation!

The cost of the drug tests is the most prohibitive part of the whole process and therefore I don't see there ever really being enough testing done to insure, or to the most part insure that all of the athletes are clean.

Mt stated in one thread I read how many athletes the NZFBB has on its books there were well over 500 from what I recall (please correct me MT).

You would have to test everyone of those athletes at least twice or more a year to be for the most part certain that they are all clean. Shit it isn't going to happen!! :shrug:

So at best all the testing will ever be is a sticking plaster on a hydro dam leak.

It comes down to 3 choices people

You either compete as a natural along side juiced athletes and be prepared to loose knowing that you should have won (but no one will care)(and you may still win).

You simply don't compete!

Or you juice yourself?

That's my humble opinion for what it is worth.

[Big_J]

Just get rid of all testing that solve it :pfft: :pfft:

[Outlaw53]

We have the same problems & arguments over here in Aust.

Firstly, forget about Polygraph testing, (Lie detector). These are crap. Every test is inconclusive.

It takes an hour or so to do just one competitor and regardless of the result, no bastard believes it anyway.

A Polygraph test is only as good as the tester. In other words, it's open to interpretation. A Polygraph test is not a drug test.

INBA do ASADA, (WADA) testing over here, but due to the ridiculous expense, (almost $1,000 per test), they don't do a lot of them.

Competitors are not going to foot the bill to get tested every show.

The best you can do is test a few winners, or at least the Overall winner.

As far as what is "natural" goes.........simply pass the test, that's it.

Regardless of whether you are geared up or not, if you pass a WADA urine test, you are natural, there is not much more you can do.

Nothing shits me more than geared up guys going in Natty shows, but it's hard to stop.

The problem is, there are some really bloody good naturals out there these days, who aren't on the gear, but people still accuse them of being on.

No one trusts anyone.

Natural shows are honesty contest, you're really relying on another person's integrity.

[2guns]

Lets hope it doesn't come and bite you on the arse in 10 years.

it wont im fine, was told this by a doctor about 4 weeks ago.

only thing to watch is my cholestrol and thats sweet as.

everythings in very good health

blood pressure is fine.

its very safe if u do it properly and dont go stupid, i dnt try to encourage nor discourage i just tell it how it is from my perspective.

u say u ahve had a close friend damaged his life from his gear use

how much was he taking?

wat was he taking?

wat was he eating?

did he have any previous medical conditions?

did he use any other drugs at all?

u have to take lots of things into account, not just say gear will kill u kinda thing (or sumthing along the lines of that)

end of the day if u abuse something, chances are itll bite u in the arse.

there is a difference between use and abuse

[Pseudonym]

Firstly, forget about Polygraph testing, (Lie detector). These are crap. Every test is inconclusive.

And people use ADHD medication to mask signs of nervousness anyway, don't they?

Back in the early days of the new Olympic Movement (1900-1920) even training was discussed as being banned

That's fascinating! I'm not sure about banning training, but I'd be right behind banning cardio.

[keats]

I'd be right behind banning cardio.

LMFAO :grin:

[Growing Concern]

it wont im fine, was told this by a doctor about 4 weeks ago.

Hi 2 Guns, I hope I did this quote thing right as it was the first time.

[MOD EDIT: You were pretty close. You just needed to put a

[ED_AISH]

2 Guns... Just out of interest did the doctor you visited check your natural testosterone production? Gear - even low doses can have long term inhibiting effects on ones natural production of testosterone and other important hormones. Not something that would show up on a general health check, I am sure you are fitter than an ox.

[blairandkelly]

2 Guns... Just out of interest did the doctor you visited check your natural testosterone production? Gear - even low doses can have long term inhibiting effects on ones natural production of testosterone and other important hormones. Not

generally only advanced prolonged users from what i understand. 2 guns is a fit young man , had he of been 15 or 16 theres a different story. when used in healthy adult males at sensible doses, and not abused there seems to be no evidence of ill effects , i think that allot of people with negative opinions on gear speak from the heart and not with the top 2 inches , do a little research from a broad range of sources and you might just be surprised at what comes up on your monitor .. heres a youtube clip to think about.

[Melbot]

This discussion has gone so far off track its not even funny. I think the point that was made previously 2 guns about clean federation is not whether they are clean but whether they should be.

We all know all the federations have gear users, the qeustion worth asking is whether this should be allowed as much as it is. My personal opinion is that lately a blind eye has been turned in a bid to try and get athletes in NZ up to world class standard. There are other possible reasons which for pc sake I wont mention.

I dont have a problem with people using gear and I cant say I havent considered it, the debate comes from the fact that people who decide to battle it out naturally dont have a chance when competing against people who use. The federations claim to be drug free but yet no recognition is given to natural athletes.

The problem to this is that the bigger boys who arent natural draw a better crowd. Lets face it the bigger the better. People wanna see freakish size.It would be good to have a natural and "not" natural section at each show to accomodate both groups of athletes but of course NZ law prohibits this.

[diamond]

i'm starting to think that the steroid question is not the real issue here.

Maybe we could ask this guy.

[2guns]

My mate that I was talking about was well into the drug circles competed throughout the 90's , won the junior Mr Australasia, infact never lost, just got pro card before his health stuffed him. I would say used to much but unsure exactly what. His last show I remember he was 115kg at night show at about 5'7". Just look after yourself as starting the gear to early is a concern.

im guessing your mate is now behind bars? thats besides the point however.

if it is the person im thinking of i am 99% sure that it was not the anabolic steroids that has wrecked his health.

thanks for the advice but i have good people looking after me and making sure i am all good

[2guns]

2 Guns... Just out of interest did the doctor you visited check your natural testosterone production?

well no because i wen to see him after i started the gear so natural test production was not able to be tested.

i trained for 4 years before i started the gear. i have pics of me when i was natural if u would liek to see..