Event entry and registration prices

[Paul]

Plus I also want to continue competing for several years, and as things currently stand I am not allowed to compete for anyone outside the NZFBB while I am on the Exec.

im sorry MT, but i have never heard of such bullshit. u should be able to do wat u want with regard to that, wat rubbish.

who made tht 'new rule' anyway? marc stewart or moe mossawi?

What would Moe have to do with it?

[michaelk]

im sorry MT, but i have never heard of such bullshit. u should be able to do wat u want with regard to that, wat rubbish.

who made tht 'new rule' anyway? marc stewart or moe mossawi?

It's not that new a rule, wasn't long ago that you were suspended for competing in NABBA shows by the NZFBB.

Doesn't seem that ridiculous to me....by competing in a NABBA show MT effectively for that day at least becomes a product of the NABBA business and is seen to support their sponsors and more importantly their policies.

The drug testing issue often raises it's head in this forum, and so by being seen to be participating in and supporting the NABBA federation, MT would then be seen to be endorsing that they don't drug test. Wether you agree with testing or not is one thing, but to be seen to support non testing or providing competition to those that do not wish to be tested, and may be drug users, whist holding an official capacity in a tested organization should not be acceptable in a business sense.

How can he be seen to have one hand out for sponsorship for the shows he runs, and yet on the other hand be potentially used as a product and supporter of other businesses that may be in competition with the very businesses that he requests sponsorship from.

Further to that, I would see it as a sign of disatissfaction with the organization that he is an Exec member of, if there is something in the NABBA federation he wishes to partake in, he should implement it in the federation he is an executive of. And to be fair to MT he has done just that with the introduction of the Classic class and weight divisions in the masters class.

Lets not forget this is a business as well as a sport, in business I don't get to turn up for one employer one day and then their competition the next day, the Blues players don't get to have a run around for the Warriors, and so MT should plant his feet firmly in one camp and fight for change from within.

Just my opinion.

[Big_J]

well i think its a bullshit rule.. it really shows that some people (whoever made this 'rule') are not in the sport for the pure love of it, because if they were then they wouldnt have a problem with some one wanting to do more shows.

MT is certainly passionate about this sport and wants to do as many shows as he can, possibly ones around his area.. which mean both federations or it fits in with his calendar?

[2guns]

It's not that new a rule, wasn't long ago that you were suspended for competing in NABBA shows by the NZFBB.

well michaelk it must be relatively new seeing that MT did a nabba show not all that long ago.

How can he be seen to have one hand out for sponsorship for the shows he runs, and yet on the other hand be potentially used as a product and supporter of other businesses that may be in competition with the very businesses that he requests sponsorship from.

the sponsors are sponsoring that particular show, not MT personally. so wats the problem with that?

[2guns]

But, being an event organiser myself, I can't see how anyone could fit the description of the 2nd part of your statement. Can you elaborate, 2guns?

still need an elaboration???

[MasterTel]

Thanks for those comments, Mike. You are partially correct that the "rule" is not new - the NZFBB constitution states:

5.6 c) A member shall cease to be a member of the Federation if the member enters, performs or officiates in any manner (whether as judge, competitor, compere, guest poser, promoter or otherwise) in any contest other than one sanctioned and approved by the Executive Directors.

This is very clear, so I knew full well that I lost my financial membership by competing in a NABBA event, which is fair enough. After each NABBA event I participated in, my membership was reinstated at a cost of $45 each time.

Also, until about 2 years ago, if you competed in a non-IFBB sanctioned event (e.g. NABBA, INBA), you also lost any qualification that you may hold for Nationals and have to requalify if you wanted to do the NZFBB Nationals. This restriction has since been removed, so only the loss of financial membership remains.

This latest "edict" (i.e. loss of Exective position) is an extension to the rule 5.6 section c. So this part, in my opinion, is new. To answer 2guns, it came directly from Mark Stewart at the AGM, and one of the strongest supporters of it was indeed Moe, who has now been re-elected to the Executive. To be fair to both gentleman, Mark had received a number of complaints late last year (which I did not know about until recently) from long-time members about my actions, and he had handled it himself to take the heat off me. And Moe is an IFBB-Pro, who understandably is very staunch in his support of the IFBB and its rules which is fair enough.

Mike, it is true that there is now a Classic class in NZFBB events, but I proposed the introduction of this last year and I was the only Exec supporting it and it wasn't accepted. The Nationals Over 40 weight division in Masters was not my idea, and has now been removed after just one year. My decision to compete in NABBA events had nothing to do with my Classic class proposal being turned down. Like you, I love to compete, but I am 47 years old and never have been and never will be more than an average competitor at best. If I was an elite competitor like you, then my "supporting" another organisation would be much more significant. I have been trained for many years by a top NZFBB judge, who has been on the judging panel at several shows I have competed at. Many of my fellow Exec members are also judges, so I felt that competing for another organisation removed any potential "conflict of interest". It is also a class (Masters Athletic) that suited my physique better, and the dual side posing in the judging (i.e. left and right side poses) suited me as I feel that one of my strengths is balance between my left and right sides.

Also, my position on the Exec is voluntary - the only money I receive is reimbursement of flights. It is true that event organisers get paid a fee, but I do that job because I love doing it and I quite often don't accept the fee to ensure the event makes a decent profit. That is despite the fact that I lose a lot of work time (and I'm self-employed so that means lost earnings) so each event actually costs me money. Also, as I have paid most of the event expenses myself for the 5 shows I have organised, I am now owed nearly $25,000 by the NZFBB. This has helped the NZFBB pay off old debt and I know I will get my money back one day (and it's a damn good incentive to make a profit on my events! )

The bottom line is, I would never let my efforts for the NZFBB or the money owed to me make me in any way expect any special favours. As I said before, I do it because I enjoy it and love bodybuilding. The majority of the Exec support this removal from office rule, and I'm not going to make it an issue. Therefore, if I decide I want to continue competing in non-NZFBB events, I will resign from the Executive, but still be available to do everything else I am doing for the NZFBB, if they want me to do so.

[Dumbelldog]

Plus I also want to continue competing for several years, and as things currently stand I am not allowed to compete for anyone outside the NZFBB while I am on the Exec.

im sorry MT, but i have never heard of such bullshit. u should be able to do wat u want with regard to that, wat rubbish.

who made tht 'new rule' anyway? marc stewart or moe mossawi?

What would Moe have to do with it?

Moe appears to be on the committee from what I've heard.

Sorry just read all of mastertel's post above, but I must ask at what meeting was he re-elected and by whom?

[MasterTel]

Moe appears to be on the committee from what I've heard.

Sorry just read all of mastertel's post above, but I must ask at what meeting was he re-elected and by whom?

Moe put his name forward for the vacant Auckland Exec position at the Exec meeting directly after the AGM on July 1st which was unanimously accepted by the Executive.

[2guns]

This is very clear, so I knew full well that I lost my financial membership by competing in a NABBA event, which is fair enough. After each NABBA event I participated in, my membership was reinstated at a cost of $45 each time.

well this rule aint enforced on everyone so if it happened to me id sure have something to say

[2guns]

I am now owed nearly $25,000 by the NZFBB. This has helped the NZFBB pay off old debt and I know I will get my money back one day (and it's a damn good incentive to make a profit on my events!

jesus! hope u get yr money mate, and the nzfbb are paying somekind of interest/or your interest if its in debt to u with another party i.e finance comp, credit card

[Pseudonym]

First of all, I just want to thank everyone for this discussion. There's some excellent debating going on - I read one post and agree with it, then read the opposing argument and think, "Yeah, that's also true!"

You're all staying so polite too - give yourselves a pat on the back, guys. :grin:

Also, as I have paid most of the event expenses myself for the 5 shows I have organised, I am now owed nearly $25,000 by the NZFBB.

This concerns me a little. Don't get me wrong, I understand the need to pay off old debtors, and I have absolute admiration for your generosity. I'm trying to pinpoint why this makes me feel uneasy, and I'm having difficulty. Can you tell me if other event organisers do the same as you? When we hear of the improved financial position of the NZFBB, and its decreased level of debt, does that take into account the new voluntary debtors such as yourself?

Regardless of the rights or wrongs of the "Thou-shalt-not-compete-for-a-rival-organisation" rule, I think the NZFBB had better start praying that you never want to enter a non-NZFBB comp, MasterTel. To lose you from the Executive would be a huge loss to the NZFBB.

[waldo]

I'll make a prediction: In a couple of years time you'll see happening here exactly what the Wieders did in the States. Xtreme Nutrition will be the major and probably only sponsor and Moe will be President. There will be no drug testing either.

That's my reckoning, and I invite anyone to place wagers with me. The odds however will be short, so there's not much money to be made here!

Far cry from two years ago when the Special General Meeting was called to over throw Mark Stewart!

[MasterTel]

Thank you all very much for your encouraging comments.

Can you tell me if other event organisers do the same as you? When we hear of the improved financial position of the NZFBB, and its decreased level of debt, does that take into account the new voluntary debtors such as yourself?

At the moment the NZFBB is about $22K in debt (down from about $55 a year ago). I'm owed about $25K and Mark Stewart just under $10K, which pretty much covers the debt. This is balanced by about $13K of sponsorship and misc income due from recent events which is coming in slowly. So, no - other event organisers aren't doing this - it was merely a personal decision by me and Mark to ensure no other debtor was going to try and wind up the NZFBB. I'm pretty confident the NZFBB debt will be cleared by the end of the year, so Mark and I should have all our money back. Then I can pay off my credit cards, which is where most of this debt is sitting at the mo!

In a couple of years time you'll see happening here exactly what the Wieders did in the States. Xtreme Nutrition will be the major and probably only sponsor and Moe will be President. There will be no drug testing either.

Not bad, Waldo! You may well be right - perhaps we should get the TAB to set up odds on this? :pfft:

[samoan_muscle]

I'll make a prediction: In a couple of years time you'll see happening here exactly what the Wieders did in the States. Xtreme Nutrition will be the major and probably only sponsor and Moe will be President. There will be no drug testing either.

That's my reckoning, and I invite anyone to place wagers with me. The odds however will be short, so there's not much money to be made here!

Far cry from two years ago when the Special General Meeting was called to over throw Mark Stewart!

From what I've heard, the ownership of Xtreme Nutrition is about to change hands...ie no Moe

[waldo]

I think it's the ownership of his retail stores in question.

He'll still be the sole supplier of all products into the Xtreme Stores as well as the non-xtreme stores that buy products he imports. There is still a vested interest for him to be involved.

[Dumbelldog]

I'll make a prediction: In a couple of years time you'll see happening here exactly what the Wieders did in the States. Xtreme Nutrition will be the major and probably only sponsor and Moe will be President. There will be no drug testing either.

That's my reckoning, and I invite anyone to place wagers with me. The odds however will be short, so there's not much money to be made here!

Far cry from two years ago when the Special General Meeting was called to over throw Mark Stewart!

I think you are right on the money Waldo.

Mastertel you are truly a saint, and I say say this with the upmost respect you are maybe a little mad but for the good of bodybuilding good on ya mate. I for one don't agree with how they treated you over the NABBA drama considering what we have now learnt, I do see their point and it is a valid one but hell give respect where respect is due and all that.

[Outlaw53]

im sorry MT, but i have never heard of such bullshit. u should be able to do wat u want with regard to that, wat rubbish.

who made tht 'new rule' anyway? marc stewart or moe mossawi?

It's not that new a rule, wasn't long ago that you were suspended for competing in NABBA shows by the NZFBB.

Doesn't seem that ridiculous to me....by competing in a NABBA show MT effectively for that day at least becomes a product of the NABBA business and is seen to support their sponsors and more importantly their policies.

The drug testing issue often raises it's head in this forum, and so by being seen to be participating in and supporting the NABBA federation, MT would then be seen to be endorsing that they don't drug test. Wether you agree with testing or not is one thing, but to be seen to support non testing or providing competition to those that do not wish to be tested, and may be drug users, whist holding an official capacity in a tested organization should not be acceptable in a business sense.

How can he be seen to have one hand out for sponsorship for the shows he runs, and yet on the other hand be potentially used as a product and supporter of other businesses that may be in competition with the very businesses that he requests sponsorship from.

Further to that, I would see it as a sign of disatissfaction with the organization that he is an Exec member of, if there is something in the NABBA federation he wishes to partake in, he should implement it in the federation he is an executive of. And to be fair to MT he has done just that with the introduction of the Classic class and weight divisions in the masters class.

Lets not forget this is a business as well as a sport, in business I don't get to turn up for one employer one day and then their competition the next day, the Blues players don't get to have a run around for the Warriors, and so MT should plant his feet firmly in one camp and fight for change from within.

Just my opinion.

MichaelK.

Great post mate.

I 100% disagree with it, but you put your argument forward beautifully.

You got me thinking, well done.

It sounds like NZ is pretty much like Aust when it comes to federation in-fighting.

We face the same petty banning from the IFBB over here too. The problem is, they just pick & choose who they want to ban.

Usually the high profile BBers. The also-rans can pretty well compete with whoever they want.

If you are going to implement these draconian rules, you have to ban everyone, you can't discriminate & ban certain competitors, but not others.

Obviously this would be almost impossible to police, so the simple thing to do is to get rid of it. No one likes it, except a few power hungry officials.

This is just a dumb-arsed Weider rule that they implemented so as they could control BBing around the world.

It's pathetic really. Those old fuckers have got no idea about modern day BBing. The sport needs fresh blood.

I've got a real problem with natural BBers not being allowed to compete in non-tested shows. Why can't they?

I encourage it all the time over here. The best part is, the natural guys are so bloody good that they are actual winning & placing in non-tested shows!

This can only strengthen natural BBing IMO.

Most old school BBers think of natural shows as a Mr Ethiopian contest, and in the old days it probably was.

But over time and with advance training, nutrition & supplement knowledge, the standard has certainly risen.

I don't know what it's like in NZ, but over here in Aust, the IFBB & NABBA are pretty much getting walloped by the natural federations as far as competitors & bums-on-seats go.

This is the only reason IFBB bought in 'Classic Physique' & NABBA bought in 'WFF', in an effort to win back the smaller or mediocre competitor.

Newbies are where the money is for promoters.

They bring in a truckload of friends, where as your established champion usually brings his girlfriend & training partner and that's it.

Rather than support different federations, my advice is to support different promoters, the good ones that is.

The ones that are genuinely trying to look after the sport & the competitors. The are some really good promoters over here & some real shit ones.

I refuse to support the shit ones, regardless of the federation, but I will be there with bells-on to support a well run show, no matter what federation it is.

BBing is too small to be bickering with politics. We should all be free to compete & support who we want to.

Props to Mater-Tel. Your passion rocks mate! You are doing what your heart tells you & for that you have my respect.

Great debate guys.

Cheers.

Craig. (Outlaw)

[Dumbelldog]

If you are going to implement these draconian rules, you have to ban everyone, you can't discriminate & ban certain competitors, but not others.

Obviously this would be almost impossible to police, so the simple thing to do is to get rid of it. No one likes it, except a few power hungry officials.

This is just a dumb-arsed Weider rule that they implemented so as they could control BBing around the world.

It's pathetic really. Those old fuckers have got no idea about modern day BBing. The sport needs fresh blood.

This is so true!!! Sorry Andrew I'm going to single you out, you swing both ways so to speak and bloody good on ya mate, but are you being asked to stop supporting NABBA shows? I dought it, I also suspect you would tell them where to go if you where?

[Andrew]

Hmm don’t know about swinging both ways but yes I’m competing for both NABBA and NZFBB (and INBA)but as pointed out I will have to pay the $45 registration fee at the next NZFBB comp that I do..but no big deal there that’s the rules and I’m happy to go with the flow on that one… as far as either organisation having a problem with me competing for both I haven’t had any yet and don’t expect any, as stated the NZ body building scene is to small for crap like that to go on.

It’s a real shame that MT isn’t allowed to compete for NABBA while been on the NZFBB committee but again that’s the rule’s and I’m sure he understands that (correct me if I’m wrong there MT)

[Dumbelldog]

The swing both ways comment was purely related to the two federations nothing else. 8)

[2guns]

haha wat did u think it meant andrew (swinging both ways) :pfft: :pfft:

[MasterTel]

It's now $25 for the entry (or registration) fee - what you refer to as the registration fee is the annual membership fee. This membership fee also has gone up - from $45 to $60.

I've just received the minutes from our meeting when the increases were decided, and my information above is not quite correct:

The regional event/registration fee is indeed now $25, but the annual membership fee is unchanged i.e. it is still $45. However, the Nationals entry fee has increased from $30 to $40. I knew there were two increases, but I got one of them wrong.

[Big_J]

Does entering on the day of the competition cost any more? and can i join the federation on that morning?

[MasterTel]

No, Big_J - it won't cost you any more to register on the day of the event.

And, yes, you can join as an NZFBB member at the same time - in fact, all competitors who are not current NZFBB members are required to pay their membership fee of $45 when they register for an event.