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First Test E + Dbol cycle.

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Alriiight, 

 

As the title suggests, this would be my first test e/dbol cycle, pretty basic stuff I know but I want to make sure I've got all my ducks in a row before I order or use any of this junk. Any and all feedback is welcome (except dick pics, no dick pics plz).

 

Male - 6'3 - 105kg - 17%bf - 26yo - several years in the house of iron.

 

Nutrition = just fine thanks.

 

Goal of the cycle is strength, I understand it's coming with some mass but that's just an added extra to me.

 

Dbol: (week 1 - 4) 40mg a day (20mgx2 a day)

 

Test E: (week 1 -8) 500mg per week (250mg Monday + Thursday)

 

I have read quite a bit about using aromasin (12.5gm) ranging anything from everyday to once every 3 days whilst on. So I still have some reading to do there to firm up what I want to do. Really interested in hearing feedback on that.

 

PCT:

Nolvadex: 

Week 1: 30mg every day

Week 2: 20mg everyday

Week3/4:10mg everyday.

 

I feel PCT may be lacking an AI but I don't know whether continuing to run Aromasin is necessary or beneficial... especially for a relatively short cycle! 

 

I'll also be picking up some milk thistle to help my poor liver.

 

Anything I should look at reviewing here? Thanks in advance.

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Daz69 Senior member

Daz69

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At 17% BF is too high, the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen is present in adipose (fat) tissue..

10-12% would be better.. Adding dbol would compound potential for estrogen issues..

 

Don't bother with PCT, most research shows you either recover or you don't once PCT drugs are out of your system, (basically they only work whilst you are using them)..

 

Employ an AI last few weeks as you taper off test end of cycle, to lower E2 as testosterone lowers also..

 

Milk thistle doesn't do shite..

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2 hours ago, Daz69 said:

At 17% BF is too high, the aromatase enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen is present in adipose (fat) tissue..

12% would be better.. Adding dbol would compound potential for estrogen issues..

 

Don't bother with PCT, most research shows you either recover or you don't once PCT drugs are out of your system, (basically they only work whilst you are using them)..

 

Employ an AI last few weeks as you taper off test end of cycle, to lower E2 as testosterone lowers also..

 

Milk thistle doesn't do shite..

17% is too high for what? Anything? 

 

Edit: can't find anything other than bro science on American forums to substantiate your claim , whilst obviously aramatase enzyme is a bit more prominent in higher %s the effects are be easily controlled between AI and the Nolva... 

 But thanks for the feedback all the same.

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Unverified Junior member

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Not ignoring the advice at all, in fact I appreciate it.

 

I took it onboard and went and tried to find some more information about it but there really wasn't much except on some US forums were guys were just yelling about <12%... I'm not disputing that there would be an increased conversion of test to estrogen at higher bf% but I don't think the risk outweighs the benefit here...

 

I then got to thinking of every strongman or heavy/super heavy powerlifter ever... 

 

But like I said, I appreciated the feedback, it gave me more to think about.

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Daz69 Senior member

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4 hours ago, Unverified said:

17% is too high for what? Anything? 

 

Edit: can't find anything other than bro science on American forums to substantiate your claim , whilst obviously aromatase enzyme is a bit more prominent in higher %s the effects are be easily controlled between AI and the Nolva... 

 But thanks for the feedback all the same.

 

Too high to be commencing a steroid cycle, IMO..

 

I'm currently reading up on sources of estrogen in males,  localised estrogen biosynthesis, plus pharmacokinetics of  aromatase, I can assure I have quoted no broscience.. 

 

The full paper is worth a read if you can gain access:

 

Journal of Steroid Biochemistry & Molecular Biology 86 (2003) 225–230 Sources of estrogen and their importance E.R. Simpson..

 

 

 

 

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Unverified Junior member

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The paper was a little above me but what I got (from the stuff I could apply to myself, I'm not a menopausal woman with titty cancer, despite what anyone says)  was supportive of what you were saying so I will bear that in mind, I've got some weeks before I start anything, anyway, so I'll cut down a bit... so thanks for that.

 

Any other insights? With respect I'm still going to PCT, I've read one to many personal accounts of horror stories from not doing it to pass it up.

 

How about the use of aromasin throughout? Is there any value in this in your opinion?

 

Thanks for the continued feedback.

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Daz69 Senior member

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22 hours ago, Unverified said:

With respect I'm still going to PCT, I've read one to many personal accounts of horror stories from not doing it to pass it up.

 

How about the use of aromasin throughout? Is there any value in this in your opinion?

 

Thanks for the continued feedback.

 

Here's a fairly recent study discusses recovery amongst AAS users:

 

i) Most PCTs are a complete waste of time and money in the long-run, even if they may temporarily boost test levels

ii) Taking as many precautions as possible to protect the HPTA (and especially testes) from free-radical damage should be prioritised on cycle (eg. controlling aromatase/oestrogen levels, using supplements like curcumin and taurine).

 

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0161208

 

Regarding aromasin on cycle, there is growing evidence aromatase action in testes causes oxidative damage to sertoli cell function, and that use of low dose AI may stop or limit cell death, promoting better chance of recovery..

 

Regarding use of AI to lower estrogen on cycle: There are plenty study's out there show estrogen is essential for growth via GH, and IGF-1, therefore I might be inclined to use very low dose (for reasons given above) or just use end of cycle as you taper off...

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Daz69 Senior member

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Using Dbol from the start of a first cycle might not be ideal, it's likely supraphysiological spikes of both hormones could initiate elevated estrogen levels..

By adding 2 compounds (test + dbol) you have no idea which compound is responsible for any potential side effects..

 

It's preferred to start with one compound only, as any side effects can quickly be dealt with by lowering the dose, therefore giving you an idea of what dose your body is comfortable with for any future cycle..

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Unverified Junior member

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9 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

Here's a fairly recent study discusses recovery amongst AAS users:

 

i) Most PCTs are a complete waste of time and money in the long-run, even if they may temporarily boost test levels

ii) Taking as many precautions as possible to protect the HPTA (and especially testes) from free-radical damage should be prioritised on cycle (eg. controlling aromatase/oestrogen levels, using supplements like curcumin and taurine).

 

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0161208

 

Regarding aromasin on cycle, there is growing evidence aromatase action in testes causes oxidative damage to sertoli cell function, and that use of low dose AI may stop or limit cell death, promoting better chance of recovery..

 

Regarding use of AI to lower estrogen on cycle: There are plenty study's out there show estrogen is essential for growth via GH, and IGF-1, therefore I might be inclined to use very low dose (for reasons given above) or just use end of cycle as you taper off...

Thanks for this daz, I really appreciate the input, big help and has clarified quite a bit for me.

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Brynn Junior member

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This could've been a placebo but I drank diluted apple cider vinegar for the bloating/water retention and it worked to some extent for dbol. Not as bad as anadrol tho, makes most look like the michelin man.

 

Its also a decent plunger if you have a high meat low fiber diet :-)

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