First Cycle

[bang_bang]

^ Pretty sure daz recommends that, ai last 2 weeks then taper. Makes sense. 

 

Also 200mg pw is hardly worth it. Do that every 5 days. Or 350-400 once a week. 

[Realtalk]

Tapering off a complete waste of time. What do you think a drug half life is, it's essentially a taper. Long estered steroids basically taper themselves down. 

 

Yes, you want a pct. anything which kickstarts your natural test production faster than normal you want to be using. The success of the cycle is defined by the position you are in 6 or so weeks after the cycle, not at the day after your last shot. Everyone is going to be strong and big at the end of the cycle. But if you aren't going to run another cycle for 6 months then if you're in the same position then as you were before you did the cycle then what a waste of time and trouble.

 

what are your plans after the cycle? You gonna do another one or just wanna do one to try it out? These things matter to what id suggest you do. But pretty much pct and creatine mono hydrate is what I used to do when I was on and off regularly throughout the year.

 

Hmmm contradicting myself slightly here, but not really. So, All these pct meds in my opinion are the worst thing for your body so if you are going to do 3 or 4 short cycles in a year then I would just think about blasting and cruising. But if it's a one off then most definitely you want to bounce back asap and pct is the proven and logical way to achieve that.

[Gainswood]

20 minutes ago, Realtalk said:

Tapering off a complete waste of time. What do you think a drug half life is, it's essentially a taper. Long estered steroids basically taper themselves down. 

 

Yes, you want a pct. anything which kickstarts your natural test production faster than normal you want to be using. The success of the cycle is defined by the position you are in 6 or so weeks after the cycle, not at the day after your last shot. Everyone is going to be strong and big at the end of the cycle. But if you aren't going to run another cycle for 6 months then if you're in the same position then as you were before you did the cycle then what a waste of time and trouble.

 

what are your plans after the cycle? You gonna do another one or just wanna do one to try it out? These things matter to what id suggest you do. But pretty much pct and creatine mono hydrate is what I used to do when I was on and off regularly throughout the year.

 

Hmmm contradicting myself slightly here, but not really. So, All these pct meds in my opinion are the worst thing for your body so if you are going to do 3 or 4 short cycles in a year then I would just think about blasting and cruising. But if it's a one off then most definitely you want to bounce back asap and pct is the proven and logical way to achieve that.

I just want to try one, tbh not sure what i'll do in the future, thanks for the advice @Realtalk :)

[woody]

200mg is a low starting dose but id still suggest an ai,carnt hurt,dont bother tapering,test boosters wont do jack post cycle,run clomid.

[Daz69]

Don't bother with a PCT, it's unlikely to make any difference to your recovery, assuming you stick to 200mg/wk.

Add 5g taurine/day to your antioxidant stack, to help with testes function and recovery throughout the cycle...

[woody]

if your prone to gyno id keep nova on hand,and use at the first suspicions of an onset,never failed as a quick remedy for me.

[Daz69]

1 hour ago, woody said:

if your prone to gyno id keep nova on hand,and use at the first suspicions of an onset,never failed as a quick remedy for me.

 

On 200mg/week..??????

[woody]

21 hours ago, Daz69 said:

 

On 200mg/week..??????

yeh unlikely,just thought id add that considering he states he already has gyno.

[Gainswood]

Ill be doing 300mg/week and I'll have nolva for pct and arimidex in hand for ai.

[Daz69]

On 27/03/2016 at 8:55 AM, woody said:

yeh unlikely,just thought id add that considering he states he already has gyno.

 

Lower the BF% to reduce aromatisation...

[Gainswood]

at 17% should I do a cut first?

[PETN]

It would be better to imo. You wana be relatively lean  going into cycle and eat heaps to make the most of it rather than be fat initially and eat less or be fat and get fatter. Shouldnt take you more than a month or so to drop to 12% or whatever unless you're lazy or fatter than 17%. 

[Gainswood]

Yeah okay, i'll do that :)

[PETN]

5 minutes ago, Gainswood said:

Yeah okay, i'll do that :)

 

See what few other people here reckon first. That's just what I'd do but I haven't immersed myself in steroid related literature  and im not a 'trainer of champions' or anything so probably best to get a few more opinions before deciding.

[woody]

On 3/26/2016 at 11:50 AM, Daz69 said:

 

 

you can still cycle ok at 17%,just means you need to be more vigilant,eat closer to your daily requirements cut sodium and sugars,and imo use an ai.

[Gainswood]

On 4/1/2016 at 8:45 AM, woody said:

you can still cycle ok at 17%,just means you need to be more vigilant,eat closer to your daily requirements cut sodium and sugars,and imo use an ai.

I'm doing a mini cut atm, just until I find some Ai's

[mjd243]

Random question from someone who doesn't/hasn't yet taken any "enhancements" but has anyone tried Indole-3-carbinol as their PCT? 

[HarryB]

What about all the fat guys who take copious amounts of gear.. or do you reckon some of the superheavyweight and strong men who look like 25+ percent are wasting their gear?? 

 

I don't think it's even an issue. Wanna get leaner and more results from your training and wanna do it quick. . Run a cycle. Why not? Seriously why not? As if any of the guys who cycle on here waited until they were close to their genetic potential before they started pinning. Certainly doesn't seem that way at my gym. 

[woody]

On 4/4/2016 at 5:13 PM, HarryB said:

What about all the fat guys who take copious amounts of gear.. or do you reckon some of the superheavyweight and strong men who look like 25+ percent are wasting their gear?? 

 

I don't think it's even an issue. Wanna get leaner and more results from your training and wanna do it quick. . Run a cycle. Why not? Seriously why not? As if any of the guys who cycle on here waited until they were close to their genetic potential before they started pinning. Certainly doesn't seem that way at my gym. 

wouldnt say ther wating there money,just that sides are more of a concern the more b/f your carrying.

[HarryB]

41 minutes ago, woody said:

wouldnt say ther wating there money,just that sides are more of a concern the more b/f your carrying.

 

Are they though? How so? Say you start a cycle at 25% bf and finish it at 12%. You may not have got the most growth out of your cycle BUT are you at more of a health risk than a skinny dude doing a cycle? I don't think so. Starting points are less important healthwise that finishing points imo. Or do you think by starting out leaner you're going to do less damage to your endocrine system? I'd say that's not the case at all. You're doing damage either way, maybe managing estrogen might be more of a problem? Maybe not... who knows. I have seen a lot of really lean guys with some pretty disgusting gyno. I'm a fat guy never had gyno even once. 

 

The healthiest way would be to not take steroids at all. 

[soundsgood]

3 hours ago, HarryB said:

 

Are they though? How so? Say you start a cycle at 25% bf and finish it at 12%. You may not have got the most growth out of your cycle BUT are you at more of a health risk than a skinny dude doing a cycle? I don't think so. Starting points are less important healthwise that finishing points imo. Or do you think by starting out leaner you're going to do less damage to your endocrine system? I'd say that's not the case at all. You're doing damage either way, maybe managing estrogen might be more of a problem? Maybe not... who knows. I have seen a lot of really lean guys with some pretty disgusting gyno. I'm a fat guy never had gyno even once. 

 

The healthiest way would be to not take steroids at all. 

 

Come on Harry don't be naive, everyone knows you have be less than 12% body fat to start a cycle

 

just like  you have to run it for exactly 12 weeks, 11 or 13 weeks you will lose all your gains, and if you're not getting bigger don't worry about looking at your diet or training, just add more gear. 

 

Its science!  

 

Because we we are all training for exactly the same reason ?

[GyzzBrah]

f*ck Honestly the biggest fear for me is if I start taking, even a small ammount, is loosing what little test I already have.

Spoke to Daz once about what could happen, he says can never know for sure.

If most people loose a bit of their production, but lets say manage to gain back even 50% of their test production within a year, they will still be fine, maybe just feel a little shitty.

Loosing any natural production at all would do me in for sure.

 

Going on gear is something that will have to happen eventually, but this worries me for real.

 

[soundsgood]

Just now, GyzzBrah said:

f*ck Honestly the biggest fear for me is if I start taking, even a small ammount, is loosing what little test I already have.

Spoke to Daz once about what could happen, he says can never know for sure.

If most people loose a bit of their production, but lets say manage to gain back even 50% of their test production within a year, they will still be fine, maybe just feel a little shitty.

Loosing any natural production at all would do me in for sure.

 

Going on gear is something that will have to happen eventually, but this worries me for real.

 

 

Just live your life first bro.  Worry about it when you're a bit more stable with a job, consistent times available to train, money to afford food intake etc.  

 

Some guys are fine and recover no problem but Someone like yourself can't run haphazardly into gear use without serious consequences because of the reasons you have detailed 

 

 

[PETN]

100mg/week for a year is like 5g. f*ck recovery. 

[woody]

21 hours ago, HarryB said:

 

Are they though? How so? Say you start a cycle at 25% bf and finish it at 12%. You may not have got the most growth out of your cycle BUT are you at more of a health risk than a skinny dude doing a cycle? I don't think so. Starting points are less important healthwise that finishing points imo. Or do you think by starting out leaner you're going to do less damage to your endocrine system? I'd say that's not the case at all. You're doing damage either way, maybe managing estrogen might be more of a problem? Maybe not... who knows. I have seen a lot of really lean guys with some pretty disgusting gyno. I'm a fat guy never had gyno even once. 

 

The healthiest way would be to not take steroids at all. 

agree alot of sides are depended on many other factors,for me steroids are for growth,hence the name anabolic.you can lose weight naturally easily enough through diet if you carnt drop from 25%without steroids your doing something very wrong.ive cycled in the past at around 20%and estrogen sides are far more harder to control than at lower b/f levels,but as you say that could be a individual thing.