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Thoughts on Trenbolone..

Daz69

By Daz69
in Steroids & prescription meds

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Daz69 Senior member

Daz69

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Trenbolone - Part One - Does it Aromatize?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/782871 - Neumann F (1976)

Trenbolone exerts a variety of anti-estrogenic effects, perhaps through hypothalamic feedback inhibition of the production of testosterone (a substrate necessary for endogenous 17β-E2/Estradiol biosynthesis).  The compound is not estrogenic and seemingly not or only weakly progestationally active...

http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/16726369 - Renaville R et al (1988)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6358174 - Fabry J et al (1983)

The mechanism(s) through which trenbolone alters estrogenic activity remain to be elucidated but may be related to the inhibition of endogenous androgen synthesis (presumably through pituitary or hypothalamic feedback inhibition) and/or altered expression or activity of the aromatase enzyme.  To summarize, trenbolone is not a substrate for the aromatase enzyme, but may exert both anti- and pro-estrogenic effects, with the bulk being anti-estrogenic.

Trenblone - Part Two - How Good is it for Building Mass?

The ability for trenbolone to promote growth is very well known.  There are many studies that exist which have shown total body and skeletal muscle mass growth in various animals (bovine, rodents, etc).  Here are some of the more famous studies for those wanting to review before we move along.

K.Y. Chung, B.J. Johnson - Application of cellular mechanisms to growth and development of food producing animals -J Anim Sci, 86 (2008), pp. E226 E235

R.J. Heitzman - The effectiveness of anabolic agents in increasing rate of growth in farm animals, report on experiments in cattle - Environ Qual Saf Suppl (1976), pp. 89-98

P.J. Buttery, B.G. Vernon, J.T. Pearson - Anabolic agents some thoughts on their mode of action - Proc Nutr Soc, 37 (1978), pp. 311?315

Now, we can break most of the studies out into two distinct categories...first, those studies which administered trenbolone alone and those which administered trenbolone alongside 17β-E2 (estradiol).  Here is where it gets interesting...there is a lot of support for the theory that growth is superior when trenbolone is administered with estradiol than when it is administered without.  This suggests that estradiol enhances the anabolic effects of trenbolone.  Although the exact means by which estrogenic substances increase lean mass growth is not entirely understood, most believe it involves an indirect action on the pituitary that causes a release of bovine GH and a direct action on skeletal muscle receptors (Preston, 1987).  Whereas androgens seem to exert only a direct growth effect on receptor sites in muscle tissues...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9331864 - Henricks DM (1997) - Serum concentrations of trenbolone-17 beta and estradiol-17 beta and performance of heifers treated with trenbolone acetate, melengestrol acetate, or estradiol-17 beta.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8617656 - Herschler et al (1995) - Production responses to various doses and ratios of estradiol benzoate and trenbolone acetate implants in steers and heifers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/685099 - Galbraith and Watson (1978) - Performance, blood and carcase characteristics of finishing steers treated with trenbolone acetate and hexoestrol.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/573255 - Heitzman RJ (1979) - Effects of implanting prepuberal dairy heifers with anabolic steroids on hormonal status, puberty and parturition.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9159272 - Foutz CP et al (1997) - Anabolic implant effects on steer performance, carcass traits, subprimal yields, and longissimus muscle properties.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17431051 - Schneider et al (2007) - Effects of heifer finishing implants on beef carcass traits and longissimus tenderness.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1526900 - Bartel et al (1992) - Trenbolone acetate/estradiol combinations in feedlot steers: dose-response and implant carrier effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/782875 - Heitzman's report (1976) on the anabolic growth experiments on livestock

So, a valid argument could be made that the popular "low test / moderate mast / high tren" stack you see preached here often is not ideal for anyone whose primary goal is gaining lean mass.

We'll talk more about trenbolone, estradiol, and fat loss in a later post but please note that most all of these studies show that marbling scores went down when trenbolone and estradiol were administered together.  This further debunks the "theory" that fat loss is greater when using trenbolone in a low estrogen state.

Please feel free to review the studies;
 

Trenblone - Part Three - Trenblone's Effects on Muscle



So, how exactly does trenbolone cause muscle growth?  Although the mechanisms it uses are not entirely clear, most researchers speculate that trenbolone exerts direct anabolic effects via AR activation and associated nuclear translocation/transcription (not unlike other androgens).  This is talked about further by Wilson, Lambright et al (2002).  And, before we get too far, we must remember that trenbolone actually has been demonstrated to reduce muscle protein synthesis rates.  This is far often misunderstood.  The reason growth is demonstrated during use is because it reduces muscle protein degradation rates to a greater extent.  Food for thought by those who preach its virtues as the anchor for bulking stacks.

Anyway, some literature suggests trenbolone may actually induce anabolic effects associated with either alterations to endogenous growth factors or the responsiveness of receptors in skeletal muscle to these aforementioned growth factors and IGF-1.  This makes me speculate how much of a synergy may exist by using trenbolone alongside exogenous growth hormone?

Where I feel trenbolone shines is during a diet.  The reason for this is that it is fantastic, as mentioned before, in preserving lean mass via its effects on the reduction of endogenous glucocorticoid activity.  It also may have the ability to suppress amino acid breakdown within the liver.  I like to recommend small amounts of trenbolone as part of any extended dieting phase for these reasons.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12441365 - Wilson, Lambright et al (2002) - In vitro and in vivo effects of 17beta-trenbolone: a feedlot effluent contaminant.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1154211/ - Ballard and Francis (1983) - Effects of anabolic agents on protein breakdown in L6 myoblasts.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2707149 - Thompson SH et all (1989) - Trenbolone alters the responsiveness of skeletal muscle satellite cells to fibroblast growth factor and insulin-like growth factor I.

Trenbolone - Part Four - Trenbolone's Effects on Adipose Tissue

As a general rule, all androgens will produce secondary effects on lipolysis by binding with androgen receptors located in adipose tissue.  Essentially, the stronger the androgen, the higher affinity it will have with binding to these receptors.  This bind will stimulate the mobilization of fatty acids, and ultimately the oxidation of them assuming that a caloric deficit is adhered to.  Trenbolone by itself, and alongside estrogen, has been shown to reduce subcutaneous fat, intramuscular fat, and decrease muscle marbling (another measurement of intramuscular fat content).

Although, the binding of trenbolone to androgen receptors in adipose tissue is fairly straight forward, the precise mechanism(s) through which it reduces body fat remain to be determined.  Many speculate it may involve a direct stimulation of lipolysis, as demonstrated by an increased expression of enzymes involved in lipolysis in the liver, including enoyl-coA-hydratase (EnoylCoA) and acyl-coA-dehydrogenase.

In various rat studies, there has been an inability for males to gain body weight following trenbolone administration.  The speculation here is that this may result from a reduction in total body fat mass or perhaps intramuscular fat content, similar to what has been observed in other species. 


K. Blouin, A. Veilleux, V. Luu-The, A. Tchernof - Androgen metabolism in adipose tissue: recent advances Mol Cell Endocrinol, 301 (2009), pp. 97?103

R.C. Herschler, A.W. Olmsted, A.J. Edwards, R.L. Hale, T. Montgomery, R.L. Preston, et al. - Production responses to various doses and ratios of estradiol benzoate and trenbolone acetate implants in steers and heifers J Anim Sci, 73 (1995), pp. 2873?2881

B.A. Reiling, D.D. Johnson - Effects of implant regimens (trenbolone acetate-estradiol administered alone or in combination with zeranol) and vitamin D3 on fresh beef color and quality J Anim Sci, 81 (2003), pp. 135?142

J.A. Samber, J.D. Tatum, M.I. Wray, W.T. Nichols, J.B. Morgan, G.C. Smith - Implant program effects on performance and carcass quality of steer calves finished for 212 days J Anim Sci, 74 (1996), pp. 1470?1476

M. Reiter, V.M. Walf, A. Christians, M.W. Pfaffl, H.H. Meyer -Modification of mRNA expression after treatment with anabolic agents and the usefulness for gene expression-biomarkers Anal Chim Acta, 586 (2007), pp. 73?81


Some other neat things that have been seen during rodent studies is trenbolone's somewhat unique abilities to decrease retroperitoneal (behind abdominal cavity), perirenal (kidney), and other fat depots.  I have been trying to get my hands on these studies however they are unpublished, as far as I know...

Time and time again, the lipolytic effects of trenbolone (enanthate) have been superior to testosterone (enanthate) in comparable exogenous doses.  Although I would urge folks not to think of trenbolone as a "fat burner", it can definitely assist one's goals when combined with a proper diet and lifestyle.

 

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Hone Member

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Nice article Daz, well put together. As mentioned when used correctly Tren is very hard to beat. 

 

 

Hey Hone... Whats your thoughts on the reason why Tren causes fatigue..? 

Tren increases RBC dramatically. If you have high RBC your red blood cells  can clump together and block the capillaries, this makes it harder for your red blood cells to carry oxygen hence causing fatigue/lethargy.

Time I got my arse to the gym *crazy*

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mikehutton112 New member

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Might be worth looking into the Tren induced prolactin and gyno issues. Not a lot of people are prone to this but I guess you don't know until it happens. I recommend something like "Caber" to go with a Tren cycle. Better to be safe than sorry. (I'm a living proof lol) well not really lol-able matter tbh.

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Daz69 Senior member

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Might be worth looking into the Tren induced prolactin and gyno issues. Not a lot of people are prone to this but I guess you don't know until it happens. I recommend something like "Caber" to go with a Tren cycle. Better to be safe than sorry. (I'm a living proof lol) well not really lol-able matter tbh.

Why would you administer a D2 agonist for something you don't have, and something that doesn't exist..?

Trenbolone doesn't affect prolactin directly at all, and its well known that in people with high prolactin trenbolone can cause problems, but it does so by exactly the mechanism that leads it to indirectly reduce prolactin over time : Progesterone receptor antagonism and indirect lowering of estrogen by HPTA suppression.

To treat the symptoms until prolactin is lowered. 

In theory it adds up to this : trenbolone is an anti-progestin. It binds the Progesterone Receptor and causes the exact opposite effects of progesterone (progesterone is used to increase stamina in racehorses, tren does the opposite, progesterone increases fat deposition. It's also a potent androgen that drastically shuts down HPTA if its not already shut down, and when simultaneously adding tren and lowering estrogen (by lowering wet compounds and/or using anti-e's) you actually create a problem where there might not be one.

To understand this you need to understand how prolactin works for the pregnant female. During pregnancy estrogen and progesterone are very high. The high estrogen causes high prolactin, but both estrogen and progesterone actually inhibit the prolactin from doing anything. Post-partum there is a sharp drop in estrogen and progesterone, and a stimulus to the nipple that combine to cause lactation. Translate that to an AAS user with high prolactin, whether its from previous use of estrogenic compounds, xenoestrogens, prolactinoma, you name it, and you suddenly lower estrogen and administer an anti-progestin. And then you get a little paranoid over an itchy nipple and you start touching it (I kid you not, there is an actual study showing that lactation in men with gyno is the result of self-manipulation) and bam, perfect storm. But if there is no continuous stimulus and estrogen and progesterone are out of the mix, with time trenbolone will actually reduce prolactin.

However there may be exceptions if something else is keeping prolactin high. In the case of a prolactinoma, and I'm not sure what influence high GH would have on it either since it is known to interact with PRLR.

Which is why one shouldn't treat problems associated with prolactin as a side of trenbolone use and just use cabergoline/bromo/prami, but actually consult a physician about the cause of the high prolactin, in case it happens to be something like prolactinoma that may require treatment (if inoperable, worst comes to worst you get an actual script for cabergoline, which is still cheaper than UG stuff, and better)..............

 

 

 

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Daz69 Senior member

Daz69

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Hey daz could you pm me? For some reason it's not allowing me to PM you.

Prolactin secretion stopped as soon as Tren cycle was finished. So please correct me if I'm wrong, I associated the issue with Tren use.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you used Test, Tren, and dbol, so you logically associate your issues to the Tren..?

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AZIDE Senior member

AZIDE

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Hey daz could you pm me? For some reason it's not allowing me to PM you.

Prolactin secretion stopped as soon as Tren cycle was finished. So please correct me if I'm wrong, I associated the issue with Tren use.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you used Test, Tren, and dbol, so you logically associate your issues to the Tren..?

It's coz he got the issues when he used tren and he didn't get issues when he used the other stuff less the tren. Same as everyone else. 

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Daz69 Senior member

Daz69

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Hey Hone... Whats your thoughts on the reason why Tren causes fatigue..? 

Tren increases RBC dramatically. If you have high RBC your red blood cells  can clump together and block the capillaries, this makes it harder for your red blood cells to carry oxygen hence causing fatigue/lethargy.

 

I found this:

Novel way to reduce tren effects on cardio
So tren messes with most people's cardio ability on cycle. 

Trens causes rises in IGF and Prostaglandins. While IGF is a fairly well known substance in the bodybuilding world today, prostaglandins are fairly unknown in terms of formation and roles in the body.

Prostaglandins are made by two different pathways(Cyclooxygenase and Lipoxygenase), and considering prostaglandins are a group of about 20 lipid cells, they have contrary function; responsible for stimulating as well as alleviating inflammation(Inflammation stimulation is the rapid metabolism of them expelled through the bronchials), regulate blood flow to particular organs, control ion transport acrossmembranes, modulate synaptic transmission, induce sleep, mediate lipidrelease, and regulate metabolism is various tissue.

Cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase pathways, compete with one another to form prostaglandins(as well as thromboxane or leukotriene-leukotriene being a bronchial stimulator). In the cyclooxygenase pathway, the prostaglandins D, E and F plus thromboxane and prostacyclin are made.

Thromboxanes are made in platelets and cause constriction of vascular smooth muscle and platelet aggregation Leukotrienes are made in leukocytes and macrophages via the lipoxygenase pathway. They are potent constrictors of the bronchial airways. They are also important in inflammation and hypersensitivity reactions as they increase vascular permeability.

Because trenbolone causes the rate of production of prostaglandins to rise, the corresponding rise in Leukotrienes causes inflammation in the lungs such as wheezing and shortness of breath.

Singulair (Montelukast), a common allergy medication, is a Leukotriene Modifier. It blocks the Leukotriene receptors in your lungs, eliminating trenbolone sides such as wheezing and shortness of breath.

Put simply, taking Singulair, or certain other Leukotriene modifiers will block the tren effects on cardio.

So will Singulair reduce the gains from tren....imo no it wont.

PGE2 and PGF2a seem to be the two prostaglandin that exert the desirable tren effects. PGE2 increases protein degradation where as PGF2a increases protein synthesis. Muscle hypertrophy is usually achieved by an increase in protein synthesis as well as a proportionately smaller increase in degradation. The simultaneous release of both PGE2 and PGF2a creates this condition.

Although I am not entirely sure, it seems that cysteinyl leukotrienes LTC4, LTD4 and LTE4 are mainly responsible for bronchial constriction. Montelukast only blocks the actions of LTC4, LTD4 and LTE4 at the CysLT1 receptor in the lungs and bronchial tubes.

Both PGE2 and PGF2a are dervied from arachidonic acid via the PGH2 synthase pathway (cox-1 or cox-2 referred to above as the cyclooxygenase pathway) while LTC4, LTD4 and LTE4 are derived via the lipoxygenase pathway.

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HalfNatty Junior member

HalfNatty

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Finally a scientific explanation for tren cough

the only good thing about tren cough is that you know your shit is real tren.

ive been rushing my pins and had a cough each time for the last three weeks - slow learner here. feel it start to prickle in my upper back and shoulders prior to getting a 2 min coughing fit and an extremely red face. bad news if you have a runny bum as violent coughing does not lend well to that scenario.

also - tren makes me shit a lot more as opposed to a simple test cycle  both quantity and frequency - anyone else notice that? its like my intestines decide to wake up and unload everything they have got.

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