Is overtraining a crock of shit?

[Pseudonym]

Recently I've been training with a couple of different guys with awesome physiques. They're committed with their diet, and I'm sure both have kick-ass genetics, but both have the kind of physique you'd assume involved the use of steroids - and yet both are natural.

The thing they have in common is training volume and intensity.

Both of them train solidly for an hour and half or more. Rest periods are very short - probably around a minute. And they just do set, after set, after set. Some heavy sets, some high rep - just lots of everything. Training chest with one of them yesterday, I lost count of how many sets we did, but it was easily 20+. There's a good chance he'll do another similar chest session in a few days time.

My point is, they're doing what many would consider overtraining. But it's working for them. And it seems to be working for me, too, judging by the comments I've been getting from friends and colleagues.

So (based on my sample study of two) I wonder if most of us are too scared of training with lots of volume? Is overtraining a crock of shit?

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

thats true most people just too scared to go for it... personally though YES i ofcourse it exists, you can overtrain and feel the effects of it but you don't know your limits until you try something which really challenges you.

for me, i experienced the effects last year training 6x a week going hard for 1-1.5 hrs each day, counting macros (to stay in caloric excess) and gaining weight reasonably consistently.. eventually after around 2 months of this lifestyle i started to feel pretty fatigued, terrible sleep quality, joints and tendons feeling the harsh effects of it all.

i would consider doing it all again at some point because the results were there no doubt, just not the kind of thing i'll ever run for more than 2-3 months at a time because i couldn't handle it much longer than that; i also find it very challening to time manage my life if im in the gym that much but thats another story!

[B_Eden]

Overtraining is definitely very real, but it's also very person dependant. If I don't take a de-load every month or so I get sore joints, lose sleep, hit platteus, and just feel lethargic in general. I'm of the opinion that you can't overtrain a muscle as easily as you can overtrain the body as a whole.

That said, some people seem to just bounce back from brutal training like it's nothing, so I guess it affects us all differently.

[Phedder]

Overtraining entirely depends on your ability to recover and how advanced you are. I'd agree many are afraid of high volume, when over time, that's exactly what they need. Training provides a stress, a stimulus to the body. The body responds to that stimulus by adapting to better handle that stress in the future. Obviously this is a slow and gradual process, and I bet these guys have been training for quite a few years, and their current volume and intensity is higher than it was 2 years ago.

Here's a really good article by Mike Tuchsherer on the subject - http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2012/12/20/you-are-not-overtrained/

[ohjoshua]

I vote over training is over rated.

I do think that heavy weights with regard to your 1RM do take there toll on your CNS. Esp with large compound lifts.

In saying that though there are olymic lifters that train two times a day 7 days a week and train at >90% loads multiple times a week.

-----------------

For me personally a guy who has a kid, wife, eats so so and has broken sleep because of toddler. I find when doing my 531 at just over twice the recommended frequency I need to have light days or days off after about a week. or my lifts start to go backwards.

example of this is on Monday I could do 75kg OHP for 3 reps and then on Wednesday I could only do 75kg for 1 rep. This is more over reaching than over training but still...

[yeelang]

regarding hyperthropy

all things equal every set with intensity that requies a type-2 muscle fiber will stimulate protein synthesis rate over protein degradation. The time required between workouts to perfume a given lift is seperate from your PTOR. You might not be able perform a given lift but that doesn't mean you aren't building more muscle, it's just that your current muscle fibers are not in optimal condition to lift weights.

CNS overtraining is different.

 

[ohjoshua]

regarding hyperthropy

all things equal every set with intensity that requies a type-2 muscle fiber will stimulate protein synthesis rate over protein degradation. The time required between workouts to perfume a given lift is seperate from your PTOR. You might not be able perform a given lift but that doesn't mean you aren't building more muscle, it's just that your current muscle fibers are not in optimal condition to lift weights.

CNS overtraining is different.

 

If my current muscle fibers are not in a condition to lift and I am lifting again then this will continue until I have a break or a deload.

Which is why what I am doing is over reaching and if I was to continue to do so long term would become overtraining?

BTW I think he means Protein turn over rate when he says PTOR?

[yeelang]

 

regarding hyperthropy

all things equal every set with intensity that requies a type-2 muscle fiber will stimulate protein synthesis rate over protein degradation. The time required between workouts to perfume a given lift is seperate from your PTOR. You might not be able perform a given lift but that doesn't mean you aren't building more muscle, it's just that your current muscle fibers are not in optimal condition to lift weights.

CNS overtraining is different.

 

If my current muscle fibers are not in a condition to lift and I am lifting again then this will continue until I have a break or a deload.

Generally you will have the propensity to adapt, but it can be extremely slow. hypertrophy is a product of volume. If the volume you are doing is not sufficient to induce an increase in protein synthesis there will be no hypertrophic adaptation. If  your cns can't recover then you won't improve cognitively as fast as proper recovery. This is polarized by the rep scheme.

 Higher frequency programs for hypertrophy have variations in rep ranges and/or compound/isolation and/or % variations in intensity to mitigate drops in performance. 

Hypertrophic overtraining for me is a concern for support mechanisms that amplify or detriment gains.. mindset, connective tissue, catabolic hormones, stress, injury risk.. these factors are what determine when you need to ease off or change direction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Terrymundo]

In my recent  experience training a bodypart mutliple times a week has given wicked results. a lot of people say im overtraining but if im growing who cares, admitently my sets are alot lighter then when i was doing each muscle group once a week. But what do you care about????? moving the most weight or blowing up and improving your physique????

I do however change my weekly workout structure slightly. lets take triceps for example. I am trying add more size to tricep to balance my arm. I hit them 3 times a week:

• once at the back of a chest workout: 1 exercise for 5 sets of 15+ reps
• on dedicated arms day: 3-4 exercises 5 sets a piece
• after delts: 1 exercise 5 sets of 15+reps

there is normally a day in between but i have done back to back days. yes the lifting was average. BUT MY ARMS ARE GROWING AND FAST!!! 

 

I do believe in CNS overtraining though. But this easy to spot and easy to remedy. just take a day off. easy. BACK TO THE STEEL

[Realtalk]

It's pretty hard to wreck your CNS with structure and being sensible. Easy to do if you want to do it though. But I don't know anyone who trains 1 rep maxes on a regular basis or even doubles and triples. Not nessercery IMO.

there are lots if different training templates out there. The only differences in them are the frequencies and volumes. Where one is high in frequency generally it will be lower in volume per session and vice versa.

you can squat heavy every single day if the volume is low and be fine. Unless your stupid you shouldn't have a problem natural or enhanced.

[HarryB]

Overtraining is valid in my opinion, but it's individual and you can train your body to handle a super high volume of work over time.

I don't think you can go heavy on the same exercise everyday, there has to be some down time for your joints etc but that's an individual thing. I tend to think that the more advanced you get the harder it is to train balls to the wall every day. Mostly because you actually know how to tax your muscles more effectively than you did in the beginning of your training and also because the load you use is (or should be) significantly more than you used in the early days.

I go through periods of high high volume training but as everyone has said here I don't generally go as heavy on these periods. When I training heavier then I will do less volume

It's an individual thing gassed or natty!

[rapz]

In my recent  experience training a bodypart mutliple times a week has given wicked results. a lot of people say im overtraining but if im growing who cares, admitently my sets are alot lighter then when i was doing each muscle group once a week. But what do you care about????? moving the most weight or blowing up and improving your physique????

I do however change my weekly workout structure slightly. lets take triceps for example. I am trying add more size to tricep to balance my arm. I hit them 3 times a week:

• once at the back of a chest workout: 1 exercise for 5 sets of 15+ reps
• on dedicated arms day: 3-4 exercises 5 sets a piece
• after delts: 1 exercise 5 sets of 15+reps

there is normally a day in between but i have done back to back days. yes the lifting was average. BUT MY ARMS ARE GROWING AND FAST!!! 

 

I do believe in CNS overtraining though. But this easy to spot and easy to remedy. just take a day off. easy. BACK TO THE STEEL

Your arms are small cxnt- you should train them everyday

[DIANABOL]

I think most people who think they are overtrained usually arent and probably undertrained more than anything else. Myself, i dont think I overtrain very easy and can go a couple weeks without a day off the gym. 

[ohjoshua]

 

regarding hyperthropy

all things equal every set with intensity that requies a type-2 muscle fiber will stimulate protein synthesis rate over protein degradation. The time required between workouts to perfume a given lift is seperate from your PTOR. You might not be able perform a given lift but that doesn't mean you aren't building more muscle, it's just that your current muscle fibers are not in optimal condition to lift weights.

CNS overtraining is different.

 

If my current muscle fibers are not in a condition to lift and I am lifting again then this will continue until I have a break or a deload.

Generally you will have the propensity to adapt, but it can be extremely slow. hypertrophy is a product of volume. If the volume you are doing is not sufficient to induce an increase in protein synthesis there will be no hypertrophic adaptation. If  your cns can't recover then you won't improve cognitively as fast as proper recovery. This is polarized by the rep scheme.

 Higher frequency programs for hypertrophy have variations in rep ranges and/or compound/isolation and/or % variations in intensity to mitigate drops in performance. 

Hypertrophic overtraining for me is a concern for support mechanisms that amplify or detriment gains.. mindset, connective tissue, catabolic hormones, stress, injury risk.. these factors are what determine when you need to ease off or change direction.

 

 

Good post. Do you write programs? what sort of programs do you recommend (do they include % of 1rm etc)

[Northland Powah]

Its surprising what the human body will adapt to. If you take the gym out of the equation and look at incredibly physical jobs that people do day after day, they can't really afford to call up work and say. um my muscles haven’t fully recovered yet so I'm going to take another day off. So they just keep doing it and before you know it you don’t notice anymore. 

Although overtraining is a medical condition that is real, there are symptoms like dizziness when standing and depressive bouts. Although most people who aren’t recovering between session to session are just fatigued and shouldn't really say they are over trained. 

Last year I worked up to some incredible volume bench pressing (Smolov 6 days a week for 3 months straight). I had probably the best gains I've ever experienced doing it as well. 

So back to the question, yes overtraining exists but 99.9% of people claiming are a crock of shit.

[maccaz]

Its surprising what the human body will adapt to. If you take the gym out of the equation and look at incredibly physical jobs that people do day after day, they can't really afford to call up work and say. um my muscles haven’t fully recovered yet so I'm going to take another day off. So they just keep doing it and before you know it you don’t notice anymore. 

 

this, did blocklaying for few months straiht out of school, just constantly carrying blocks and sacks of cement and pushing wheelbarrows of cement with flat tyre through muddy sites etc all day lol, worst job ever.

felt beat up as shit for first week, then just dealt with it eventually couldnt even notice after a while

[Realtalk]

That's called RSI and ACC.

[Terrymundo]

In my recent  experience training a bodypart mutliple times a week has given wicked results. a lot of people say im overtraining but if im growing who cares, admitently my sets are alot lighter then when i was doing each muscle group once a week. But what do you care about????? moving the most weight or blowing up and improving your physique????

I do however change my weekly workout structure slightly. lets take triceps for example. I am trying add more size to tricep to balance my arm. I hit them 3 times a week:

• once at the back of a chest workout: 1 exercise for 5 sets of 15+ reps
• on dedicated arms day: 3-4 exercises 5 sets a piece
• after delts: 1 exercise 5 sets of 15+reps

there is normally a day in between but i have done back to back days. yes the lifting was average. BUT MY ARMS ARE GROWING AND FAST!!! 

 

I do believe in CNS overtraining though. But this easy to spot and easy to remedy. just take a day off. easy. BACK TO THE STEEL

Your arms are small cxnt- you should train them everyday

you have bic nigga lips do you train them everyday?

 

 

[Rxx]

In my recent  experience training a bodypart mutliple times a week has given wicked results. a lot of people say im overtraining but if im growing who cares, admitently my sets are alot lighter then when i was doing each muscle group once a week. But what do you care about????? moving the most weight or blowing up and improving your physique????

I do however change my weekly workout structure slightly. lets take triceps for example. I am trying add more size to tricep to balance my arm. I hit them 3 times a week:

• once at the back of a chest workout: 1 exercise for 5 sets of 15+ reps
• on dedicated arms day: 3-4 exercises 5 sets a piece
• after delts: 1 exercise 5 sets of 15+reps

there is normally a day in between but i have done back to back days. yes the lifting was average. BUT MY ARMS ARE GROWING AND FAST!!! 

 

I do believe in CNS overtraining though. But this easy to spot and easy to remedy. just take a day off. easy. BACK TO THE STEEL

Your arms are small cxnt- you should train them everyday

you have bic nigga lips do you train them everyday?

 

 

 

Will you two just bang eachother already, this sexual tension is killing me

[2fierce]

Mr mundo mine your language. There are better descriptive words . Well tanned has a better tone.

[Cameron_R]

 

Posted on Sat, 12 Apr 2014, 9:57pm

Pseudonym wrote:

Recently I've been training with a couple of different guys with awesome physiques. They're committed with their diet, and I'm sure both have kick-ass genetics, but both have the kind of physique you'd assume involved the use of steroids - and yet both are natural.

[Pseudonym]

Haha! Don't worry Cameron... you were in absolutely no danger of overtraining.