Critique my plan

[kpat102]

What do you guys think of this upper lower split? was given to me by my coach, been doing it for about 6 weeks now, so 3 weeks on and 1 week deload..reps on strength days are 3-6 with 90 second rests and 8-12 reps on hypertrophy days with 60 second rests..all compounds are 4 sets and isolates are 2 sets. Cant do squats and lunges due to patella femoral syndrome, specialist doctor said not to do them. Anyway, thoughts on the split?


Workout 1 - Upper Strength
Incline DB Press
Barbell Row
Shoulder Press
Chins 
Pressdown
EZ Bar Curl
Seated Shrug 

Workout 2 - Lower Strength
Leg press or Deadlifts **alternate workout to workout
Stifflegged **Only do these with squat day/ not on deadlift day
BB Hip thurst **Only do these on deadlift day
Glute ham raises
Seated Calfraise
Machine crunch superset DB Sidebend

Workout 3 - Upper Hypertrophy
Shoulder Press
Reverse Grip Pulldown or Pullover
DB Bench Press
DB Row
DB Overhead Tricep Extension
Hammer Curl
Facepull superset Lateral Shoulder Raise

Workout 4 - Lower Hypertrophy
Deadlifts or Leg press **alternate workout to workout
Box Step Ups **Only do these with squat day/ not on deadlift day
Close + High Leg Press **Only do these on deadlift day
Leg Extensions
Leg Curls
Standing Calfraise
Weighted V sit

[kpat102]

 sorry forgot to mention I was doing squats until 2 weeks ago then the doc said not to so I replaced them with leg press 

[Pseudonym]

Hmm. It's not a routine that I would choose, personally. But before I criticise it, what are your goals, and how long have you been training overall? It might be good as a general beginner-type workout.

Re your patella-femoral issues... check out this topic. You might find it helpful:
http://www.gymnation.co.nz/forum/injury-rehab/knee-injury-help-needed

[kpat102]

goal is to lean bulk, been training properly for about 2 years, was doing a much more specific program i designed myself before i started to get coached

 

thanks for the link

[Pseudonym]

So you're not a newbie then. In that case, maybe my concern is applicable. IMO, that routine tries to do too much in one workout, and ends up not doing anything very thoroughly. That might be ok for a total beginner, but I think you're going to need more.

Let's take Back as an example. Here's what you're doing...

Workout 1 - Upper Strength
Barbell Row, 4 sets
- long rest while you train another muscle -
Chins, 4 sets
- long rest while you train another muscle -
Seated Shrug, 2 sets?

And that's it for the day. Your poor chest gets even less attention! Personally, I would be more inclined to dedicate a whole workout to training back, then a workout to training chest, and so on.

Having said that, your coach may have a good reason for prescribing this routine. If so, I'd be interested in see what it is.

[kpat102]

yeah man i agree 100%..that was what i was thinking when i first saw the program, but then i thought he must have a good reason for setting it up the way he did. I'm 5'9 66kg..he said since i'm of less mass/frame - right now more wont necessarily mean better so yeah i guess its best to just stick to this and see how i go for about 16-20 weeks? thanks for the feedback 

[Wolffenbuttel]

It looks to me like "Coach" has written you a very basic Anatomical Adaptation program based on agonist-antagonist pairing.Is this your first split from this guy?

I'm a little curious as to your movement profile and hoping that might shed some more light on the program, Did "Coach" do any form of movement analysis or muscular assesment prior to writing this for you?

One thing I am happy to comment on is the duration of this program is way out of whack, even assuming your 2 years of training up till this point has been bullshit ( I'm not saying it is) its fairly ineffective to place an intermediate trainee on the same program for longer than 10 weeks, as you're already fairly used to training your body should adapt to this after about 6 weeks. Are you still seeing progress and gains from this program?

[AZIDE]

.

[Pseudonym]

That's unnecessary, Azide, and 2/10 for humour.

 

I'm 5'9 66kg..he said since i'm of less mass/frame - right now more wont necessarily mean better

This is where it starts to get a bit too technical for me. People like Phedder and Wolffenbuttel are probably better qualified to answer. But I'd have thought it's less about your size and more about your training history.

When you say "coach", what do you mean? Is this a PT at the gym (who should know this sort of stuff), or a coach in another sport (who may not be such a specialist in this side of things), or what?

[AZIDE]

ok ill do a proper post. i basically agree with you pseudonym.

well for a start its shit because he does sets of incline db bench then does shoulder press in the same workout which is supposedly for strength. then the workout is essentially just the same shit for the strength and hypertrophy days..upper lower upper lower etc...basically just 2 differnt days. seems to me like it would be better to just do 4 different days e.g chest/tris, legs, shoulders, back/bis or something similar and just do 'strength' shit at start of workout then hypertrophy stuff for rest of it and then each muscle group would actually get worked properly. the split seems like a beginner one done by someone who goes to the gym with no idea and just choses a few random excercises that they know or have copied off others at the gym. its shit and your coach is an idiot for suggesting this crap to you

[kpat102]

That's unnecessary, Azide, and 2/10 for humour.

 

I'm 5'9 66kg..he said since i'm of less mass/frame - right now more wont necessarily mean better

This is where it starts to get a bit too technical for me. People like Phedder and Wolffenbuttel are probably better qualified to answer. But I'd have thought it's less about your size and more about your training history.

When you say "coach", what do you mean? Is this a PT at the gym (who should know this sort of stuff), or a coach in another sport (who may not be such a specialist in this side of things), or what?

PT at a gym in Invercargall, hes an online coach that has worked with 3DMJ in the past..won multiple bodybuilding titles etc etc.. Azide has a point for sure, but yeah I really don't know what to do now man, so confused. Half the people say its all good and the other half find so many flaws in it..I reckon maybe stick it out to 12-16 weeks then go from there? 

 

One thing i've noticed is that progression has definitely worked i.e. lifting heavier loads per workout..in terms of muscle gain there hasnt been much if any at all 

[AZIDE]

yeah well its not going to hurt to try it. just do it for 12 weeks and see how it goes then try one similar to what i suggested for similar amount of time and see what gives you better results

[Dinahlady]

There isnt a perfect plan for anyone. Everyone has a different approach to what they think works and if you respect and want to work with the coach then I'd go along with it. If not then go your own way. Maybe he has a plan to move you up to a different split, reps,sets, exercises after completing this one, or maybe he hasnt inclued some exercises or a different split because, as ben mentioned, he screened you and your posture/tightness and doesnt think that other movements would be good for you (but reading your posts this would seem not true as he is online - so maybe he has left some exercises out for risk that you might be doing them wrong) I dont know - Possibly ask his reasoning? Maybe its that if you dont agree or like his response and you dont feel like you are getting a good personalised plan then that would be your cue to go your own way. 

[kpat102]

for sure, agree with both of you. he said that down the track we'll be implimenting changes to it but yeah guess time will tell, still early days eh.

 

cheers for the feedback everyone

[Pseudonym]

If you stick with it, check in a few months down the track and let us know how you get on, kpat.

[kpat102]

for sure bro

[ohjoshua]

I think it is safe to assume you have been prescribed heavy weight and low reps on ur str days, moderate weight higher reps on hyp days.

I think the concept of training upper lower heavy light is great for some who is beg/intermediate.

[kpat102]

yeah its not so much the split, more so the amount of stuff im doing..as someone said before, im doing so much of so many different things that im not doing much at all. eg, chest..2 exercises a week and thats it

[ngapuhi strong]

do you live in invercargill??

 

i think i know the pt you are talking about and if its him then he knows his shit when it comes to bb and he not long won $100 for pictures he post on here

[ohjoshua]

Yeah you are right. Most advanced and intermediate bb dont follow a plan like this. There is a trade off between volume plus exercise variety and frequency.

Bro at 66kg unless you're like 3 percent bf you are a beginner. I think you will see better gains following this highder frequency routine which focuses on compounds than doing a "chest day" where you will be spending your time and energy doing go say cable cross and pec dec.

[kpat102]

yeah i get what you mean bro, the split i did for myself before this was legs, push, pull, lower, upper off off

 

so 5 days a week, high frequency with the LPP days being hypertrophy and the LU days being strength..i wanna go back to that split as i felt i was doing better on it, this one just doesnt feel like im doing much, never really that smashed after a workout or anything

[kpat102]

do you live in invercargill??

 

i think i know the pt you are talking about and if its him then he knows his shit when it comes to bb and he not long won $100 for pictures he post on here

nah bro im in wellington