German Volume Training? Your thoughts.

[Spacebound]

Hi everyone.

Ive just finished doing a 5x5 style training, which ive done over the last 6 weeks. Then i had a week off (holiday/deload). So ive decided to come in fresh and spice it up with some GVT.

For anyone who doesnt know or havent heard of it is 10x10 style training. Heres a link http://www.simplyshredded.com/german-volume-training-a-new-look-at-an-old-way-to-build-mass-strength.html

To start with ive just been training one body part per session as its killing me. Will probably start doing two (excluding legs) next week.

Im three days in, done legs, chest and shoulders(today). Legs still hurt like hell haha. Will be back tomorrow, then arms and legs again. Then rest! In total i planned to do this for about 6weeks too, then back to heavy lifting for strenght gains.

My work outs so far have been. All 10x10 sets have been done at 60% of 1rm

Legs- Squats 10x10, leg curls 4x12

Chest- BB Bench 10x10, BB Incline 4x12, DB flys 4x12

Shoulders- DB Milt press 10x10, Rear D-flys 4x12, Machine shoulder press 4x12.

So has anyone has trained like this? How where the results?

 

[nelly bunton]

eat heaps (not shit) and take a deload week after the six weeks GVT, there should be some noticeable improvements in that timeframe. It was good for me in terms of size gains, but was horrendously boring after 3 weeks. Also, your strength may take a hit in the weeks after finishing the programme. I felt quite a bit weaker on my lifts for maybe 2-3 weeks after GVT.

[Skeletor]

I looked into it at one stage after reading an article by John Davie where he had asked Tom Platz how he could get size on his legs to which his reply was to drop all other leg excercises and just do 10 sets of 10 on squats . He said he did it and what was his weakest bodypart became his best. Wouldnt do it now because i like powerlifting styles but will be interesting to see your results. 

[Spacebound]

Eating lots, but not counting, pretty cleanish but i dont really differentaite between carbs haha.

Feeling good so far, espcially after deload form 5x5. The thing im struggling with is short rest times 60-90seconds seems like 10. Hoping i wont lose strenght, but not expecting to gain any really. I will be testing 1RM's after 6 weeks and then deload.

My main goal for training this way is to reach around 82-3kg over 6 weeks. 

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

hey man just wondering why only 6 weeks on 5x5, did you just stop progressing or something? your lifts are getting pretty good but would have thought you could keep linearly progressing for a fair bit more with 5x5 before moving on

[Spacebound]

Ive talked to a few powerlifters who right up there and they lift in 4 week stages, strength, size, volume and strength size (if i remember correctly). They said they aim to turn size into strenght.

So im gunning for size at the moment. I also felt like my body needed a break from lifting heavy. Ill go back to 5x5 style, after this cycle of GVT. 

 

 

[Pseudonym]

I've never done GVT exactly, but recently I've been trying to reduce the stress on my joints with higher reps, lighter weights, and shorter rests - so actually my workouts have been getting closer and closer to it. It looks like a good article - maybe I'll give GVT a proper shot. Thanks for posting.

FWIW, I've done a routine that focused specifically on high volume for shoulders, and they blew up.

[Spacebound]

I've never done GVT exactly, but recently I've been trying to reduce the stress on my joints with higher reps, lighter weights, and shorter rests - so actually my workouts have been getting closer and closer to it. It looks like a good article - maybe I'll give GVT a proper shot. Thanks for posting.

FWIW, I've done a routine that focused specifically on high volume for shoulders, and they blew up.

 

Im thinking the same thing with my joints. 

Will be interesting to see how it goes. 

[Pseudonym]

The interesting thing is that by only doing 10 sets total, it's actually about half the volume I'd normally do. So I presume it must just be the short rest periods that make this work?

[Spacebound]

For me its probably a bit more than what i did on 5x5. But it has been good as takes about 45mins odd to complete a work out. 

Short rest periods are killing me and i really do think they make it work. Intensity is crazy.

[shane]

Did chest/back tonight was good workout went quick good all over pump. Try legs tomorrow

 

[nelly bunton]

Pseudonym wrote:

The interesting thing is that by only doing 10 sets total, it's actually about half the volume I'd normally do. So I presume it must just be the short rest periods that make this work?

[Spacebound]

Did legs today too. 

Pump was crazy, ive never sweat so much. Legs were still sore from last sunday but decided to train anyway. Only got out 9 sets, kept rest times srict and it took its toll.

I did it with back the a couple of days ago, but couldnt get out 10x10 deadlifts with short rest breaks was just to taxing on everything but back lol. I might go for 8x8 and up the weight and see how it goes. 

[shane]

Did you do squats or legpress Spacebound?

[Skeletor]

Man 10 sets of 10 deadlifts? Is that the recommended back excercise? Id kill my back doing that volume on deads.

[ohjoshua]

I have tried 10*10 a on a few occasions in the past. The main problem i see is with such short rest exercises like squats and dead lifts tax the cardio system. Unless you do some cardio work or play sports this can be the limiting factor for failure. Instead of muscle failure you can get cardio failure, high heart rate short of breath, dizzyness.

 

But I like the idea for all other exercises. It will also work well if you have a reasonable level of fitness. 

 

60 seconds rest is soooo short .

 

Enjoy your training bro

[Spacebound]

 

Shorter rest is also a factor, I think Poliquin nicked Vince Gironda's principle of more work in less time= greater GH release therefore more growth

 

This interesting. Will have to research this.

Did you do squats or legpress Spacebound?

Squats all the way 

 

Man 10 sets of 10 deadlifts? Is that the recommended back excercise? Id kill my back doing that volume on deads.

This i what i experienced. So im going to try 8x8 as i want more volume in my dead for the next few weeks but i dont want my strenght to drop. Then ill go back to lifting heavy.

I have tried 10*10 a on a few occasions in the past. The main problem i see is with such short rest exercises like squats and dead lifts tax the cardio system. Unless you do some cardio work or play sports this can be the limiting factor for failure. Instead of muscle failure you can get cardio failure, high heart rate short of breath, dizzyness.

 

But I like the idea for all other exercises. It will also work well if you have a reasonable level of fitness. 

 

60 seconds rest is soooo short .

 

Enjoy your training bro

Ive found this exactly. Couldnt have put it better. I can just/almost do 10x10 squats (the last set i havent hit 10 yet haha) but for deadlifts its to taxing for sure.

10x10 might work better on BB row's for back, but i want deads to be my primary exercise. I was thinking prehaps i might have a day dedicated to deads and use deads as a accessory exercise on back day. Just do like 8x4sets or something. 

Cheers for the imput guys much apperciated.

[Pseudonym]

On Thursday I tried 10x10 dumbbell bench press, superset with 10x10 side raises. It really didn't feel like an intense workout at the time, but I was pleasantly surprised at the level of DOMS over the weekend. I think I'll keep playing with GVT some more.

What's the rationale behind NOT doing more than one exercise per muscle group? I definitely feel like I could...

[HumanPerformance]

Yes delts seem to respond extremely well to high volume. One reason people are lacking in thier shoulder devlopement is they dont train thier delts as a major bodypart like they would back or quads. When it comes to GVT though delts is the one bodypart I wouldnt recommend it for as it seems to cause injury or at least problamatic irritations within the shoulder. Whilst the shoulder responds well to volume one should be carefull to avoid "pattern overload" for this particular bodypart.So if you do choose to perform GVT try to perform it over at least two different movements (some form of over head press, and side raises meybe) instead of the traditional GVT protocol of 10 sets of 10 of the same exercise.

Even when I have incorperated GVT into my clients training over the years I have been increasingly reluctant to get them to do 10 sets of 10 for bench press or inclines for chest as this too just leads to injuries to the shoulder, after a couple of workouts for alot of individuals. Im not saying it shouldnt be done,, but just speaking from my own experiences.  

[Pseudonym]

Ah, good point. I guess training a certain muscle group repeatedly from only one direction is asking for imbalances to develop.

I wonder... if you take the main principle of GVT (short rest periods), and then just apply it to a "normal" routine with multiple exercises per muscle - would that give you the best of both worlds?

And would that allow you to do more than 10 sets? Because that really doesn't feel like enough work!

 

[Spacebound]

DOMS has been crazy. Although in the second week not so bad. 

When i train shoulders ive been doing 10x10 db press. Weight has been super light less than 60% 1rm as i find my shoulders get muscle fatigued very fast. I then move on to 4x12 working sets of rear DB flys. Lastly either hammer strenght shoulder press or standing BB miltary press 4x12.

After reading your advice i might revise this, prehaps drop some of the db press at the start.

Tbh after two weeks of training im not 100% sure if im feeling stronger, probably weaker even. But im going to keep going for atleast another 2+ weeks.

Not sure what the theory is behind only two exercises per muscles but i agree it doesnt feel enough. So ive generally been doing three per muscles group.

 

 

[ohjoshua]

Ah, good point. I guess training a certain muscle group repeatedly from only one direction is asking for imbalances to develop.

I wonder... if you take the main principle of GVT (short rest periods), and then just apply it to a "normal" routine with multiple exercises per muscle - would that give you the best of both worlds?

And would that allow you to do more than 10 sets? Because that really doesn't feel like enough work!

 

In the GVT versions I have read about you do the 10*10 for your main movement eg DB shoulder press then you do normal reps and sets for assitance exercises. Remember if your being strict with the 60 seconds rest time it should take approx 15min to complete the 10*10. So you could do something like...

rotoar cuff ex / warm up

DB seated press 10*10

upright rows 12*3

lat raises 12*3

rear raises 12*3

But your DB press s/s with lat raises 10*10 sounds brutal! you must have used tiny weights?

[maccaz]

 

I wonder... if you take the main principle of GVT (short rest periods), and then just apply it to a "normal" routine with multiple exercises per muscle - would that give you the best of both worlds?

And would that allow you to do more than 10 sets? Because that really doesn't feel like enough work!

 

Pseudo check my most recent post in my journal, this is what im trying to do, gvt for main movement, then 2 more exercises at 3x10 or something to mix it up

will know soon if its any good, guessing its gonna be tough for recovery, nothing messes me up DOMS wise more than 10x10 squat or leg press lol