Irresponsible Youth..?

Daz69 · July 14, 2013

Is it me or has anyone else noticed how young steroid users are getting in recent years..?

18-19 seems to be the norm. When I was a lad reaching a natural potential through training and good diet was what we aspired to, I would be surprised if anyone of 19 has achieved this.

When comparing body weight and maximum lifts it seems these kids are cycling just to attain natural or sub-natural gains whilst being on gear, 500mg/week seems to be standard for a first cycle, then ramping up to almost a gram for a 2^nd cycle, to look normal with piss weak lifts..

I’ve just found my old training book, as a 19-20yr old (no gear) 310lbs bench, 440lbs squat, 480lbs dead.. A couple of years later with 25mg/day Anavar; dead went up to 600lbs..

We had nowhere near the amount of available knowledge on diet/nutrition and training these kids today have, and piss all on hormone use..

Whether the endocrine systems hormonal set-point is predetermined in DNA, or constantly re-evaluated throughout puberty I wouldn’t like to guess?

When Test finally does peak at around 21, which it will, I wonder if that peak will be significantly reduced compared to others of their age, had they held off cycling?

Steroids have very peculiar and most of the time dangerous effects on adolescents. Through aromatizing into estrogen, they cause the epiphysis (growth plates) to calcify (close) which will leave a person unable to grow any taller.

They also interrupt the hormonal balance of the body, and during puberty these hormones are very critical to proper body development..

Might we be soon faced with an epidemic of young men in their mid-20’s with testosterone levels of a pubescent girl, in need of TRT for the rest of their lives? With the ensuing legislative response from government cracking down on everyone, because of an irresponsible and impatient few..?

jimmybro1 · July 14, 2013

Totally agree Danz, some people are just impatient I guess.

If you train natural during the early years you will have more knowledge in terms of nutrition and training which will allow you to make substantial gains.

As for the endocrine system will be interesting the effects it has on youth. The body seems to be pretty resilient to allow of things, whether hormonal balance is one of them I'm not sure... In theory it could have dramatic effects IMO.

Youth are easily impressional and with greater emphasis on male body imagine its a path a few take...

Murhf · July 14, 2013

It astounds me. And the amount of different compounds, 3 can be the norm for guys round 20. The main thing I notice is they all have crap diets. Bulking on a different scale.

fish · July 14, 2013

They also interrupt the hormonal balance of the body, and during puberty these hormones are very critical to proper body development..
Might we be soon faced with an epidemic of young men in their mid-20’s with testosterone levels of a pubescent girl, in need of TRT for the rest of their lives?

I watched a recent BB show and was amazed to witness a young novice male with what appeared to be the onset of Gyno.... With my limited knowledge it appeared to me that this young fella was all about wanting to look big... He visibly had not applied a careful cutting diet and leaned for the event....way too much BF!

One would assume he is carrying a little BF between the ears too.... Its common sense that we would take some time to research the effects of a powerful drug we intent to put inside our body.... Most seem to stop their research after reading about the physical effects.... But are oblivious to whats going on upstairs... How the hormonal balance is being screwed up and set out for their lives ahead... I worry for the young wives and children, because, after just about getting used to the changes the body goes through whilst using compounds, they are then faced with the horrendous depressions and other mental and emotional issues that are likely to arise when they are fed up with competing etc and hang up the pins...

Daz69 · July 14, 2013

There is evidence to suggest gonadal steroids regulate neural function and behaviour, in particular when the estrogen-testosterone ratio is out of whack this effects vesicular levels of serotonin and other neurotransmitters with subsequant depression and suicidal idealations..

Not looking forward to a future of disfunctional hormonally imballanced suicidally violent crybabys, with the strength and physiques of teenage girls...

southernsamurai · July 15, 2013

Awesome thread!

Peer pressure I guess, not many lone wolves these days

fish · July 16, 2013

I have seen many steroid users using steroids to put on mass you would otherwise be able to gain naturally, but primarily using the steroids to maintain a super low body fat.... Zyzz and Chestbrah are a prime example of this.

What pisses me off is many of these young guys mess themselves up and their parents find out and then the parents blame steroids instead of their child's irresponsible use and abuse.

Superdrol was banned because too many idiot kids decided to use it alone for obscene lengths of time and ended up impotent, fatigued, and with a inflamed liver......
Not to mention if their parents find steroids in the mail, the little shit ends up giving away the source due to threats of homelessness and jail, then the parents give the information to law enforcement and a source providing gear primarily to responsible users and bodybuilders ends up busted or on the radar of the law.

Furthermore, most of these kids are using steroids to look good on a night out. They take them in conjunction with recreational club drugs and end up dead or with health problems and the media blames steroids.... What’s wrong with researching and studying steroids, hormones, biology, fitness, and pharmaceuticals, so one day it can be done in relative safety with the proper resources, foundation, mind-set, and knowledge.

What's worse is that many guys are either running oral only cycles or jumping on pro level cycles off the bat with no foundation.... There is no reason to be running grams of gear when you are under 200 pounds. Hell, even 250 pounds is pushing it. And running grams of Test? HGH in a first cycle? Blast and cruising off the bat? Many people are taking the words of gh15 out of context.... He advocates blasting and cruising yes, and high amounts of gear... BUT YOU ARE EXPECTED TO HAVE A FOUNDATION AND EXPERIENCE... The blasts he advocates are big boy cycles, for experienced guys looking to go pro, not little boys with hard ons going all out for a shag at a rave or so you can take your shirt off at a club and dance tektonic to trance, house, and techno.

Terrymundo · July 17, 2013

I'm going to throw my hand up here.

I started well before I should have. Diet was poor and training was average. When the oppurtunity arose to do a cycle, I took it, without taking the time to weigh up benefit to costs. I knew i wanted to look better and I thought taking AAS would do that for me and to be honest it did..........till I came off, then back to square one. It was this point I knew these drugs weren't the magic bullet and now I had the now increased difficult task of learning how my diet and training needed to be controlled to get the result I needed. I had no idea what part of my regiment was accountable my gains or even my weak point. All this cycle did was throw a spanner in works for me learning how to control my body through proper diet and training.

Why mention this in this thread? I know the mindset(YOLO). It happens....people want to take the quick route and they often neglect the basics and resort to the path of maximum reward with the least input.

The very important difference between myself and the people who I see making the same mistake is scale on which they do it. 500mg a week of test first cycle is the accepted norm. Most even kick with an oral and alot will run the cycle well past the intended finish. I even find myself thinking its ok. It's not, not at all. My first cycle was 10 weeks of 250mg a week and I grew like weed with poor diet and training. Why does someone need to double this!?!?!?! I didn't get to 500mg a week till my 4th cycle and by then I had already a few years of training and had finally a decent understanding of how to eat to suit my goals.

I also think things are just to open these days. I have had a few conversations with young pups going on and on about their cycle and the gains theyre making. I DON"T EVEN KNOW YOUR NAME!?WHY ARE YOU TELL ME THIS? I was (and still am) EMBARRASED about my use, nobody knew about it. I didn't open up until I looked like I lifted and even then I only kept it to people who I trusted and who had a geniuine reason to know about my use. It really concerns me the transparency of AAS in the gym culture, it attracts alot of attention and it puts the quiet gym rat into an tough place when his packages get seized, his supplier is under survalence and is now in constant ear shot of kids discussing their use.

Pseudonym · July 17, 2013

Good topic guys.

Even on this forum, I think we sometimes see quite high dosages being advised. Or people jumping straight into the harsher steroids.

I don't know that keeping AAS use a hidden embarrassment is going to work, Terry. I think that cat is well out of the bag now. Young guys already know "everyone" uses steroids - it's too late to hide them again.

I also don't like the public stigma attached to steroids. Personally I'd like to see that lifted, although I conceed that would probably result in even more young users.

Ultimately, I think it's the collective responsibility of advanced AAS users to ensure that newbies don't use gear they're not ready for. Sometimes that may mean they don't use anything, or it may be using a lesser dosage, or it may be using a "gentler" steroid.

As has been said above, it's in everyone's best interests to ensure gear is used responsibly and appropriately - otherwise AAS users are inviting a public outcry which would create a crackdown by the authorities. Then no-one wins.

Murhf · July 17, 2013

Great replys guys.

Its very much like the "Hot Rod Club" or "Muscle car club" getting a bad name from boy racers. Learn listen, do everything right and you will have a great life, great training. With minamal problems from AAS. I like Ric Driasin, hes a mature young man who has been around, can speak from experience and still cruises on 250mg Test E/week. Or compare him to Bostin Loyd....

July 17, 2013

lots of factors make people want to use, especially the growing popularity of lifting and the overall increasing use/availibility of steroids.

IMO anyone who uses then criticises others for using is a hypocrite. people who know what theyre doing and make good gains are the ones who have the most influence on new or inexperienced people wanting to use or run higher doses etc. the fact many people using are not open about their use or willing to give advice only adds to newer users being misinformed.

So many sellers ripping people (especially new users) off here in nz, either with unreasonable prices or with fake/underdosed gear (bet heaps of people dont bother with an AI/ dopamine agonist etc or PCT drugs because it just cost too much and is possibly fake anyway)

besides legitimate medical use no one has a good reason to use. wanting to be a competitive bodybuilder isnt any better a reason than wanting to look good for other reasons such as girls or for other personal reasons.

I dont think 500mg/week of just test is excessive for first cycle and i dont think there was anything wrong with what zyzz used for. at least he was making money off it. how many people actually make money off competitive bodybuilding in nz/aus?

Murhf · July 18, 2013

9762291220 good points also. I often wonder how my use is different to a young mans. I have a 24 year old son who wants to start a cycle. I have experience....life experience and aas, yet I tell him not to go on gear. I think the reason of use, be for a woman ect are just as valid as BB or powerlifting, competing or not. I have no issue with that, the reasons I say not to use or at least wait are simply this. Like most drugs, once you start you will always want more, always need to up your dose abit next cycle to get results, so if my son starts now...issues of a different kind like money,sourcing, mood, sex drive will all play a part in making a simple cycle much more difficult to manage when older. I would be happy for my son to cruise till he dies if that worked, but it dosen.t nor do people ever feel happy with just 1 cycle. I thought tren and orals were way out of my reach, but now....even winnys starting to sound good! Being young allows people to have no concept of the issues they may have, there are not many, but for those of us that love sex...the issues have to be taken into account. Its our balls, which I would prefer to keep working over power or muscle. There also the issue of mood, which I see little written about, when young the extra Test has a definite affect on overall well being, depression, calm, anger.. This is a concerning part for me, I dn.t just use Test for strength, equally use it for sex and wellbeing. In fact its those last 2 things that worry me the most when I think about stopping. I understand this side to my mind ect, 20 years old do not. So am I a hippicrite...hell yes! But Iam older also, meaning different values to when I was 20. I feel we are all playing with the balance, always hopping there will be no problems, always trying to push the wieght but not damage a tendon, just like life we way up the odds then take the risk. For those that survive to a old age, we generally wish that young ones would just listen...but they never have nor ever will [just like myself]. We have no mean intent when giving advice thats not always liked...we normally do it because we have an understanding that can only be gotten with experience.

Phew, geez my dam fingers sore....

Daz69 · July 18, 2013

1: IMO anyone who uses then criticises others for using is a hypocrite.
2: besides legitimate medical use no one has a good reason to use. wanting to be a competitive bodybuilder isnt any better a reason than wanting to look good for other reasons such as girls or for other personal reasons.
3: I dont think 500mg/week of just test is excessive for first cycle and i dont think there was anything wrong with what zyzz used for. at least he was making money off it.

Three interesting points I will answer each in turn:

1: The original post wasn't about general use, it was about adolescents of 18-19 using, and whether it could at that young age cause greater/irreversable health/hormonal issues than if they had waited until a later...

2: You may or not be correct but my view is testosterone is a natural hormone that I believe if used in moderation can enhance muscular developement, and strength, also adding to a better to quality of life.

3: There are studies to show you can grow more on 600mg than 50mg, 100mg, or 300mg, but you'll also gain more on 1.5g than 600mg, so where do you stop the comparisons..? From my own experiences, right or wrong I have personally in the early days grown on much less...

Regards Zyzz, what he did killed him, I rest my case there..

pyro · July 18, 2013

lots of factors make people want to use, especially the growing popularity of lifting and the overall increasing use/availibility of steroids.
IMO anyone who uses then criticises others for using is a hypocrite. people who know what theyre doing and make good gains are the ones who have the most influence on new or inexperienced people wanting to use or run higher doses etc. the fact many people using are not open about their use or willing to give advice only adds to newer users being misinformed.
So many sellers ripping people (especially new users) off here in nz, either with unreasonable prices or with fake/underdosed gear (bet heaps of people dont bother with an AI/ dopamine agonist etc or PCT drugs because it just cost too much and is possibly fake anyway)
besides legitimate medical use no one has a good reason to use. wanting to be a competitive bodybuilder isnt any better a reason than wanting to look good for other reasons such as girls or for other personal reasons.
I dont think 500mg/week of just test is excessive for first cycle and i dont think there was anything wrong with what zyzz used for. at least he was making money off it. how many people actually make money off competitive bodybuilding in nz/aus?

Using and criticizing others on poor / excessive use, bad habits or just jumping into the deep in does not make you a hypocrite, its called helping others. If you looked around the site you can see a lot of experienced guys on here are quick to offer help and suggestions when it comes to gear. Remembring using is still in fact illegal, so not sure what you expect from some people.

Not sure why wanting to improve yourself, look better for comps, or just for well being at an older age along with various other reasons isn't "good" enough for you.

Ben0 · July 18, 2013

I personally would not have used under the age of 25, but that is my personal view, based on my own research/others advice. But at the end of the day people can make their own decisions about their bodies(right or wrong) . The advice of more experienced guys is important but if they get their mind set on something, a google search will always find someone telling them what they want too hear, and they can justify their decision based on this. All others can do is put correct information out there for others to weigh up, and hopfully take note of.

P.S Good to see some old names posting on here again!

July 18, 2013

Yes good point about the age thing daz. My point there is that I bet someone 18 years old competing at 100kg would likely get much less criticism for using from older users than say someone like leeroid or myself. The point being that it is perceived on this site that competitive bodybuilders have better reason or more right to use than others.

pyro, you missed my point I'm not saying no one should use at all. I use..

Daz69 · July 18, 2013

Yes good point about the age thing daz. My point there is that I bet someone 18 years old competing at 100kg would likely get much less criticism for using from older users than say someone like leeroid or myself. The point being that it is perceived on this site that competitive bodybuilders have better reason or more right to use than others.
pyro, you missed my point I'm not saying no one should use at all. I use..

The thing about bodybuilding as against any other sport, is that bodybuilding is and was all about taking performance enhancers, all the old favourites all took something or other thats how bodybuilding created such interest, if Arnold and the like had stayed natural, I don't believe the sport would have got anywhere near the interest it did and has still got. Without the monsters, past or present bodybuilding would be nothing, no none would give a shite..!! Lets be honest..!!

As opposed to other sports where any hint of a performance enhancement and your banned and denounced as a cheat..

I agree no one has anymore right to take PH's, its just in most bodybuilding federations its a necessity IMO..

In saying, I still believe 18 is too young...

Dinahlady · July 18, 2013

Some real good honest answers in here guys Especially Murhf - real good post.

Like 9762291220 said - I don't believe there is a real legitimate "reason" to use. (unless, in the rare case that you have proven that without testosterone you have mid to low natural testosterone levels and are taking an amount of medical grade testosterone to a natural or slightly raised level - which probably isnt going to be youth's)

But that doesn't mean that the process of someone using can't contribute to their growth as a person.

It depends why someone is using and if they ever truly understand why they are using, and then what do they do from there. If they learn from doing it and it helps them form and understanding of themselves and they grow from it (lol)... or if they continually use it to perpetuate some form of negative emotions for them.

I dont think it would be a stretch of anyones imagination to say that a lot of this industry can be fuelled by cognitions that are attributed to difficulties such as OCD, Body image issues, automatic negative thoughts, Anxiety, or a myriad of severity of body dysmorphia, depression, or just general unhappiness/unfulfillment.

Noone chooses to really entertain any of these type of detrimental thoughts or processes. And most people go through them in their life in some way. And for some people steroids could be that way. But its on an individual case by case basis of the severity of that.

Sometimes I do get caught up in thinking, is there a line you can draw under it all to say is this right or wrong - but its difficult because it would be based on individual attitudes. But there are different theories and guidelines by psychologists that you can draw off.

I think the main issue is that there isn't enough awareness around mental health and that people will readily pay personal trainers hundreds or thousands a year to help fuel their own dislike for themselves/their body, or perpetuate thier OCD. But there isn't enouhg acceptance for simply having a few counselling sessions to just talk it through, to get greater understanding and find out why you feel like you want to change your body in such a way. Ultimately it could for some people be a whole other reason, and that acheiving their goal may actually help them find the fullfillment they really want.

I've recently entertained the idea that if and when I start PTing again, being in a place where you can get cheap as student counselling services, I would like to be able to recommend certain clients, if appropriate, to see a counseller to discuss their attitude to their own body image just to have a talk through about possible areas they need to work on that isn't actually part of their body but in their mind...

Not saying this applies to everyone. But just maybe a portion that I can identify with or who I have experienced as clients.

Kinda think I went off topic but its a bit relevant. I guess what I'm saying is the prevelance of steroid use in people or especailly youths, who it might not be helpful for, might reduce if there was more of a culture of promoting self understanding and awareness.

/endhippieshit

Leeroid · July 18, 2013

Good point there Dinah, definitely a factor.

I think I know where you got the inspiration for this topic Daz lol.

Agree wholeheartedly with most things said here. I knew that I was nowhere near my natural potential when I started using gear but my reasoning was that I was going to use eventually and so why not get there quicker. Obviously that's not a very strong argument. I had done plenty of research and there's lots of forum posts out there discouraging use by anyone under 25 for the very reasons you've mentioned Daz. So I was very aware of all the downsides but that wasn't enough to dissuade me, not when gear was availble at an affordable price.

In the end I don't really regret it as there's no point looking back, just a shame that patience is not one of my virtues.

Leeroid · July 18, 2013

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Irresponsible Youth..?

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