Beginner first cycle

[yeelang]

Seems excessive poly-pharmacy for what is essentially a 600mg/week Test cycle...

Would have thought if Propionate had been switched to Enanthate this may have lessened aromatisation and mostly negated the need for estrogen management..?

50mg/2xED Proviron = 100mg/day

400mg/wk masteron (last 3 weeks) quite a lot to be using along with the Aromasin... your thoughts pls.?

Ipamorelin

GRF1-29 ... Interesting use of pharmacology there..!!

I note the short half-life of GRF1-29, (10-20 mins) are you using the PEGylated GRF version..?

Yes it was modified GRF1-29.

Not sure I follow re Test-E vs Test-P are you regarding peak levels? The dbol was the main reason for Aromasin.

12.5 EOD did not going to suppress estrogen to a detrimental level. The aim was to trial reducing water retention while on cycle.

[atrollappears]

Seems excessive poly-pharmacy for what is essentially a 600mg/week Test cycle...

Would have thought if Propionate had been switched to Enanthate this may have lessened aromatisation and mostly negated the need for estrogen management..?

50mg/2xED Proviron = 100mg/day

400mg/wk masteron (last 3 weeks) quite a lot to be using along with the Aromasin... your thoughts pls.?

Ipamorelin

GRF1-29 ... Interesting use of pharmacology there..!!

I note the short half-life of GRF1-29, (10-20 mins) are you using the PEGylated GRF version..?

Yes it was modified GRF1-29.

Not sure I follow re Test-E vs Test-P are you regarding peak levels? The dbol was the main reason for Aromasin.

12.5 EOD did not going to suppress estrogen to a detrimental level. The aim was to trial reducing water retention while on cycle.

Yes I was referring to the shorter ester of propionate as some research suggests it may actually cause an increase in estradiol due to the fast spike in plasma test and subsequent aromatization.

Did consider Mast 400 + Prov 100 was alot to be using with aromasin.. Appreciate the use of aromasin to combat Dbol Esro issues, but Mast + Prov also, that was my thinking..??

Envious of your combo of GHrH's, wondered if you have come across IGF1, in particular the long r3 version and your opinions of it..?

[Ben0]

Start of week 4. Face is still bloated and red, but not getting any worse now so guessing its just because of the dbol bloat?  Last week of dbol so hoping I will lose some of the bloat after that.

Weight is 100.5 so still on the rise (total of 10.5kg gain). Still making good strength gains. 

Acne has now started on face, I was expecting this to much as I never had acne probs in teenage years, now I know better lol Started treating it and its looking better.

Starting to get comments saying I look like i've bulked up a bit

[Leeroid]

Shiieeet nearly 11kgs in 3 weeks? Are you eating a lot more than before cycle? How are strength gains?

[Ben0]

Yea I am eating a bit more, pretty clean tho no takeaways, alcohol etc. pretty good gains across everything but bench has being the best going up 15kg in the 3 weeks

[Leeroid]

That's good to hear man, what are your squat bench and deadlift numbers? Keen to see some after pics

[muscle-lord]

good gains ben0, but just be prepared to piss out most of that weight once your cycle finishes

my first cycle was kinda similar, gained 20kgs in 8 weeks and lost 15kg of water in 3 weeks afterwards lol

[9762291220]

And then benched 205kg for 6 reps, right?

[Ben0]

Not the strongest, but bench 95, swat 130, deads 190,

Am happy with gains so far, the test should be starting to do its thing now so will be interesting. I'm guessing a lot of this water weight will drop next week when I come off the dbol??

Body fat is creeping up also, not sure what I'm best to do here, dont really want to drop the food intake so might have to start a bit more cardio and see what happens

[9762291220]

weak numbers for your weight if theyre 1RM...even if was 10RM would be nothing amazing.

if youre 18% bf and getting fatter its pretty obvious that you should drop your energy intake. no idea what your diet is, but at a guess id say drop carbs.

no one will be impressed by how 'big' you are if youre both fat and weak.

consider this constructive criticism and sort it out.

[Ben0]

edit : let me reword when im not angry at 4am lol I am 10 reps for all those weights, gives a more realistic idea of my strength then listing 1rep weights. If you actually read this properly you would know what my diet is. I'm no expert on this and never have claimed to be .  I am interested in people's opinions on ways to better my results all long as its constructive. 

[Ben0]

.

[Ben0]

.

[atrollappears]

edit : let me reword when im not angry at 4am lol I am 10 reps for all those weights, gives a more realistic idea of my strength then listing 1rep weights. If you actually read this properly you would know what my diet is. I'm no expert on this and never have claimed to be .  I am interested in people's opinions on ways to better my results all long as its constructive. 

 

"no one will be impressed by how 'big' you are if youre both fat and weak.

consider this constructive criticism and sort it out".

 

I'd consider this a wake-up call..

As has been said previously you shouldn't really be on exogenous Testosterone @ 18%BF...

I'd post up what your eating daily in the Diet/Nutrition section, and look into doing more cardio...

If anything, you could introduce a fat burner like clenbuterol, but I would seriously look at dropping that BF%... 

 

[9762291220]

ok since is 10RM that isnt 'weak'. you didnt say and i did state in my post

"weak numbers for your weight if theyre 1RM"

 

as for your diet i re-read the thread and found it within a post quoting Daz69. My bad for missing it. From my quick calcs i notice that its roughly 3000Cal. I am quite surprised someone of your weight and on gear who is already high bodyfat is gaining fat on this amount.

Would you attribute this to poor metabolism, inaccurate food intake estimates or to an extremely sedentary lifestyle?

 

as for being angry, just remember;

"holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die"

my comments are/were purely purely intended to be constructive, not to upset you.

[Ben0]

I blame my anger on all the roid rage I've read so much about in the papers *biggrin*

I would put it mainly on poor metabolism. Work a very physical job. I was a 120kg fatty years ago, had a big weight loss and my interest in lifting grew from there.

In hindsight I deff would have dropped the b/f before starting. I dont think i'm gaining a huge amount of fat, but I'm sure its creeping up a little bit. But it will be interesting to see the change in body when I drop the dbol later this week. 

Is it just a matter of finding a sweet spot with food intake/cardio to still get the muscle gains and drop the b/f a bit at the same time?

[9762291220]

at >10% bodyfat using the amount of hormones you are (assuming whatever youre injecting is dosed correctly) you should be able to lose bodyfat while gaining muscle even on an energy surplus (to a point WRT to energy intake vs energy needs obviously).

Or on an energy defecit retain muscle while dropping bodyfat more rapidly (once again depending on energy intake vs expendiature).

you should be able to do this with or without cardio.

you just need to experiment and find what works for you and is preferable

[Ben0]

In other peoples experiance, how much weight did you lose coming off dbol while still taking test?

[Leeroid]

In other peoples experiance, how much weight did you lose coming off dbol while still taking test?

Here are pics of me on my first cycle bro. Lighting is different and posing is a lot better in Week 5 so probably looks better than it should but you can see a whole lot of difference without the water retention. I gained 5.6kgs in the first 4 weeks and ran dbol at 25mgs a day for the first 23 days. After coming off I didn't lose any weight, just maintained.

 

Week 4 pics were taken 2 or 3 days after coming off Dbol and Week 5 was taken 10 days after.

 

 

[Ben0]

Cheers leeroid, gives me a bit of an idea. My last day on dbol is thursday so will be interesting to see what happens to the 10+kg I put on

[Ben0]

Into week 5, half way point. Have started a bit of cardio and think b/f has eased back a little bit this week. Have finished up on the dbol so interested to see what happens from here. Still making good consistant strength gains. Getting a lot of comments from people now saying I look like i've bulked up a lot lately. Have been a bit sick the last two weeks but it hasnt seemed to have slowed me down too much. An old injury flaring up a little bit to hasnt helped, but dont think it will cause me to many probs. Have cleared up most of the acne up with creams etc. 

Weight sitting at 102

 

[Ben0]

Week 6. Had a few unrelated health issues and am now on antibiotics for the week. Ive read this isnt ideal but it has to be done, and is only for a week.

Hasnt seemed to effected any gains or anything, still making good progress.

Weight sitting at 99.7 , think I have lost some of the water, was pissing like  a race horse for a few days there

[Daz69]

Week 6. Had a few unrelated health issues and am now on antibiotics for the week. Ive read this isnt ideal but it has to be done, and is only for a week.

Hasnt seemed to effected any gains or anything, still making good progress.

Weight sitting at 99.7 , think I have lost some of the water, was pissing like  a race horse for a few days there

I believe there might be issues regards enzymes Cytochrome P450: in particulat CYP3A4 with Testosterone being an substrate and some antibiotics acting as inhibitors..

[Ben0]

Also have been noticing very quick recovery times this week. 

I'm not going to pretend I understand that statement on antibiotics lol but tomorrow is the last day on them, and I havent noticed any difference in training/genral health while I have been taking them..

[Murhf]

Also have been noticing very quick recovery times this week. 

I'm not going to pretend I understand that statement on antibiotics lol but tomorrow is the last day on them, and I havent noticed any difference in training/genral health while I have been taking them..

Hey Ben0, for me the recovery times on test is huge, one of the best benefits. I feel super human at times. Its a great feeling to have a niggle...that would normal last a week or so, heal totally in a few days. Only drawback for me is at night I seem to have growing pains [iam 46] and in the mornings I do cat stretchs hard for about 2 min.