Endo will not be pleased ...

[farrout]

Had requested blood test yesterday to get a trough reading. Result was >52.05 nmol/L.

No point getting a peak measure.

Endo will likely drop dosage from 200mg test cyp/wk to 100mg.

[Chemo]

Lol nice bro! Mad test levels.

does your doc control the pinning?

[farrout]

Lol nice bro! Mad test levels.

does your doc control the pinning?

Thanks man

I get a vial a month & "experiment"

[mrgeeky]

Had requested blood test yesterday to get a trough reading. Result was >52.05 nmol/L.

No point getting a peak measure.

Endo will likely drop dosage from 200mg test cyp/wk to 100mg.

I actually just came on here to find out what your level's were while on 100mg of Cyp.. Cool coincidence. lol

I was on sust 250 but didn't like it.. Im back on the 40mg caps temporarily until I go on cyp!

I do notice when Training (cardio) its easy to see the difference in my performance by the amount of caps I take.

Im taking 3 morning and 2 night at the moment as a test, and have found I definitely lack the grunt in training that I have on the 4 morning and 3 night dose. .. Although generally I still feel great.

Which begs a question..

When is too much too much to remain on permanently? And what damage are we doing to ourselves living on higher levels that we are supposed to. I know body builders far exceed normal doses more often than not with out any consequences but they are not permanently on.

Is there a standard level that would be good to remain at? Or is it a case of the higher (to a point) the better?

[musclenz]

Had requested blood test yesterday to get a trough reading. Result was >52.05 nmol/L.

No point getting a peak measure.

Endo will likely drop dosage from 200mg test cyp/wk to 100mg.

:grin:

[mrgeeky]

Maybe no one knows the answer to my question?

Farrout, can I ask, how long have you been on 200mg's pw?

And these may possibly be some tricky questions for you but Im curious.

Do you find the higher the dose the better you feel?

If you could get your hands on an unlimited supply where would you limit your self in the amount you took.

How do you find a level that you think is right for you?

Any thoughts please mate?

[farrout]

Mrgeeky, I had been on 200mg a week for approx. 7 weeks and felt the best that I had ever been.

Regarding unlimited supply, I have considered running 250mg a week & accessing.

All literature that I have read to date, indicates higher mortality rates with low testosterone levels.

[mrgeeky]

All literature that I have read to date, indicates higher mortality rates with low testosterone levels.

I too have read this.

I do have to wonder if its propaganda put out by pharmacy's?

And even if it is true, which I actually believe it is, do you really think its a case of more is better?

I cant help but wonder why doctors and endocrinologists try to keep their patients levels in the lower range...

At least that has been my experience so far.

Surely they have a reason for not wanting their patients test levels too high?

Im just trying to nut this all out.. I love the higher levels of test and am wondering just how far I should be pushing the boundaries above the norm for some one of my age..

Stuffed if I can find any thing clinical on this matter..

[severe]

All literature that I have read to date, indicates higher mortality rates with low testosterone levels.

In.

Well having slightly higher rates than normal certainly seems to keep depression at bay. Feeling like a million bucks has got to help us live longer. Positive mind + active body = good times.

[mrgeeky]

All literature that I have read to date, indicates higher mortality rates with low testosterone levels.

In.

Well having slightly higher rates than normal certainly seems to keep depression at bay. Feeling like a million bucks has got to help us live longer. Positive mind + active body = good times.

yep, but where do you draw the line?

I think you are spot on whey you say "slightly higher rates than normal"

Been giving this some thought lately.

Peak for young males should be on average 35 nmol/l?

Body builders cruise at aprox 40 nmol/l between cycles?

If I have that correct then Im guessing that's a good guide to go by..

[Daz69]

All literature that I have read to date, indicates higher mortality rates with low testosterone levels.

I too have read this.

I do have to wonder if its propaganda put out by pharmacy's?

And even if it is true, which I actually believe it is, do you really think its a case of more is better?

I cant help but wonder why doctors and endocrinologists try to keep their patients levels in the lower range...

At least that has been my experience so far.

Surely they have a reason for not wanting their patients test levels too high?

Im just trying to nut this all out.. I love the higher levels of test and am wondering just how far I should be pushing the boundaries above the norm for some one of my age..

Stuffed if I can find any thing clinical on this matter..

You won't find much info, because I think there's very little (clinical) out there..

There's enough to show you what the medical limits are for what are normal test ranges, and what doses are deemed, low/medium and high for body-builders...

100mg Test-C (TRT)...... 500mg Test-E..... 1000mg Test-E might be somewhere near'ish.... ?

There's no exact dose that fits everyone, age, bodyweight, genetics will all be factors to consider....

Remember most of the literature that states the negatives of anabolic steroids doesn't really apply to TRT....

You are just dosing Testosterone, a natural hormone your body produces.. Not a 19-nor, a DHT derivative, a modified version of testosterone in injectable or oral form.... So within fairly reasonable limits you should be OK....

100mg/ml will give you 70mg of actual testosterone when the ester is subtracted.....

With a half-life of 6 days, that's only 35mg in your first 6 days.. When compounded half-lives are added that's 67mg/every 6 days, after 30 days which stays pretty constant after that point... (not a huge amount really)...

[mrgeeky]

100mg/ml will give you 70mg of actual testosterone when the ester is subtracted.....

With a half-life of 6 days, that's only 35mg in your first 6 days.. When compounded half-lives are added that's 67mg/every 6 days, after 30 days which stays pretty constant after that point... (not a huge amount really)...

I understood everything until we got to the part quoted above.

Read and re read it, but its not sinking in..

Over 30 days?

Using farrout as an example, he was taking 200mg's a week, then thinking of upping it to 250mg's per week.

If the trough levels are 56 nmol/l, at 200mg's, then what is his test levels going to be at peak? And what would he peak at on 250mg's of cyp p/week?

Surely those levels would be way to high to be taking long term? No?

[narcosis73]

All literature that I have read to date, indicates higher mortality rates with low testosterone levels.

In.

Well having slightly higher rates than normal certainly seems to keep depression at bay. Feeling like a million bucks has got to help us live longer. Positive mind + active body = good times.

yep, but where do you draw the line?

I think you are spot on whey you say "slightly higher rates than normal"

Been giving this some thought lately.

Peak for young males should be on average 35 nmol/l?

Body builders cruise at aprox 40 nmol/l between cycles?

If I have that correct then Im guessing that's a good guide to go by..

last year I had my bloods done as part of a study into test freak and anobolic freak, results came back reading 12.08 nmol/l before and 17.03nmol/l at end of 8th week, decided to call NZ Mens clinic last year and run these results by them to get their throughts, after a short chat with the consultant I was asked to make appointment, they claimed that my test levels were a little on the low side and taking into consideration my age (turning 40 this year) this would not improve naturally and that they would be able to help. Didnt end up going to see them but my real questions is, is 12.08nmol/l really that low. :?

[Daz69]

100mg/ml will give you 70mg of actual testosterone when the ester is subtracted.....

With a half-life of 6 days, that's only 35mg in your first 6 days.. When compounded half-lives are added that's 67mg/every 6 days, after 30 days which stays pretty constant after that point... (not a huge amount really)...

I understood everything until we got to the part quoted above.

Read and re read it, but its not sinking in..

Over 30 days?

I said after 30 days..!!!! IE: The half lives build up, or accumulate.. This means by about 30 days you have reached maximal blood concentrations... 67mg every 6 days, or 10mg/day.....

Using farrout as an example, he was taking 200mg's a week, then thinking of upping it to 250mg's per week.

If the trough levels are 56 nmol/l, at 200mg's, then what is his test levels going to be at peak? And what would he peak at on 250mg's of cyp p/week?

At our local Path-Lab the test level only goes as high as 56.... They dont give a reading above 56, they just state ABOVE 56 on my test paper... because its way above normal levels... They just give you a knowing look lol....

Surely those levels would be way to high to be taking long term? No?

No, its bugger-all stop panicking....(but a good dose for someone who's previously been on low natural test)..

EDIT: I've had a think and 56 might be a bit on the high side.. You really should be on the top side of normal testosterone levels "upper 30's"....

100mg of compound of Test-C should be ideal, but try it and see how you feel..

To confuse you further most Testosterone is bound by SHBG & serum albumin, only 2% is free or unbound, so the levels being discussed turn out to be miniscule anyway.... stop worrying...!!

[mrgeeky]

100mg/ml will give you 70mg of actual testosterone when the ester is subtracted.....

With a half-life of 6 days, that's only 35mg in your first 6 days.. When compounded half-lives are added that's 67mg/every 6 days, after 30 days which stays pretty constant after that point... (not a huge amount really)...

I understood everything until we got to the part quoted above.

Read and re read it, but its not sinking in..

Over 30 days?

I said after 30 days..!!!! IE: The half lives build up, or accumulate.. This means by about 30 days you have reached maximal blood concentrations... 67mg every 6 days, or 10mg/day.....

Using farrout as an example, he was taking 200mg's a week, then thinking of upping it to 250mg's per week.

If the trough levels are 56 nmol/l, at 200mg's, then what is his test levels going to be at peak? And what would he peak at on 250mg's of cyp p/week?

At our local Path-Lab the test level only goes as high as 56.... They dont give a reading above 56, they just state ABOVE 56 on my test paper... because its way above normal levels... They just give you a knowing look lol....

Surely those levels would be way to high to be taking long term? No?

No, its bugger-all stop panicking....(but a good dose for someone who's previously been on low natural test)..

EDIT: I've had a think and 56 might be a bit on the high side.. You really should be on the top side of normal testosterone levels "upper 30's"....

100mg of compound of Test-C should be ideal, but try it and see how you feel..

To confuse you further most Testosterone is bound by SHBG & serum albumin, only 2% is free or unbound, so the levels being discussed turn out to be miniscule anyway.... stop worrying...!!

cheers for the info daz...

worrying? you are way off the mark there.. Not worrying at all. Just trying to nut it out..

Remember this is our lives and our health we are playing with.

So it makes sense to talk to those who know.. I admit, I don't have a clue..

All Im trying to do is to learn. To find out what is best.. Only one way to do that. So yeah, not worrying, just trying to educate myself on whats best..

cheers again for the info daz, much appreciated...

[mrgeeky]

hasnt anyone heard of it?

Bear in mind that this is a bodybuilding forum, there should be other forums more suited to genuine HRT usage and there you would find real people that do HRT with real experiences to share with you...legally.

Here you will find people that might know people who do HRT, but those "people" we speak of don't come here because they're on HRT not a bodybuilding cycle.

If you don't like what your doctor says and you aren't going to listen to him/ her then change doctors rather than "topping up", as inviting and easy as it seems.

I'm in the Health IT sector and I deal with real clinicians daily, they want as much accurate information about a patient as possible. So "topping up" what you doctor prescribes doesn't help them one little bit.

Sure, one day when your prostate is diagnosed as enlarged you'll tell them what you really took, but telling him now will mean he will put you on 6 or 12-monthly prostate check-up. (One example from many, I could go on)

Anyway I know which option I would choose...

my last 2c

[mrgeeky]

The levels the 70yr old gets which starts at 37nmols is freaking amazing for him! Teenagers have a simialr level if they are lucky and they respond well in the gym (sure their GH levels are high as well) but that's damn good levels to be at.

Compared to your <10nmols, even in the last week of a 3mth dose you'd be sitting high on 18nmols. I mean, you don't need to be on 60nmols+ like most of us bodybuilders, you aren't seriously considering bodybuilding are you?

I always advocate taking the least amount as possible, so would try Reandron for 3 months before adding anything to it.

Just be aware that HRT prescribed by your doctor is probably ok in terms of Private Health Insurance. But consider the consequences of clicnical notes that say you're topping up with your own UG gear...and any claim you might want to make in the future for a quick private heart-related condition ...private health insurers can be brutal.

[mrgeeky]

last year I had my bloods done as part of a study into test freak and anobolic freak, results came back reading 12.08 nmol/l before and 17.03nmol/l at end of 8th week, decided to call NZ Mens clinic last year and run these results by them to get their throughts, after a short chat with the consultant I was asked to make appointment, they claimed that my test levels were a little on the low side and taking into consideration my age (turning 40 this year) this would not improve naturally and that they would be able to help. Didnt end up going to see them but my real questions is, is 12.08nmol/l really that low. :?

wow that is low.. :shock:

How do you feel? Do you have energy?

Here is the opinion of what constitutes low test levels from another site.

"What are the signs and symptoms of low (or high) Male Testosterone Levels? For example, just what does low testosterone affect in us guys? The most accurate answer is "everything"! Low testosterone effects almost every major system in the male body and has very serious long term health consequences, all of which I outline below.

Before I explain more, I have noticed that over half of all you reading this will have already had a testosterone lab reading taken and are wondering if your number is okay. (Read this link on testosterone levels for more detailed information.) I mention this because some of you have had a doctor tell you that a very low number is okay. The standard range that the labs and doctors will give you for total testosterone is 241-847 ng/dl. But trust me - if you are in the 241-399 range, you will almost for sure be experiencing various symptoms of low testosterone.

There are some guys who do okay in the 400's, but even in the 400's most males will be struggling a little. Again, it is possible for a male to have, for example, total testosterone of 450 ng/dl and feel just as good as a guy that has total testosterone of 700 ng/dl, but this is unlikely. The same goes for high testosterone as well."

[narcosis73]

last year I had my bloods done as part of a study into test freak and anobolic freak, results came back reading 12.08 nmol/l before and 17.03nmol/l at end of 8th week, decided to call NZ Mens clinic last year and run these results by them to get their throughts, after a short chat with the consultant I was asked to make appointment, they claimed that my test levels were a little on the low side and taking into consideration my age (turning 40 this year) this would not improve naturally and that they would be able to help. Didnt end up going to see them but my real questions is, is 12.08nmol/l really that low. :?

wow that is low.. :shock:

How do you feel? Do you have energy?

Here is the opinion of what constitutes low test levels from another site.

"What are the signs and symptoms of low (or high) Male Testosterone Levels? For example, just what does low testosterone affect in us guys? The most accurate answer is "everything"! Low testosterone effects almost every major system in the male body and has very serious long term health consequences, all of which I outline below.

Before I explain more, I have noticed that over half of all you reading this will have already had a testosterone lab reading taken and are wondering if your number is okay. (Read this link on testosterone levels for more detailed information.) I mention this because some of you have had a doctor tell you that a very low number is okay. The standard range that the labs and doctors will give you for total testosterone is 241-847 ng/dl. But trust me - if you are in the 241-399 range, you will almost for sure be experiencing various symptoms of low testosterone.

There are some guys who do okay in the 400's, but even in the 400's most males will be struggling a little. Again, it is possible for a male to have, for example, total testosterone of 450 ng/dl and feel just as good as a guy that has total testosterone of 700 ng/dl, but this is unlikely. The same goes for high testosterone as well."

holly shit, just goggled conversion of nmol/l to ng/dl ,using calculator that I found I have worked out that my US reading is 348.38 ng/dl.

think I might pay a visit to that mens clinic afterall.

[farrout]

Endo has dropped weekly dosage to 100mg as predicted.

Having a trough test in 3 weeks.

[mrgeeky]

Endo has dropped weekly dosage to 100mg as predicted.

Having a trough test in 3 weeks.

Hey farrout please let me know how you feel after a week or two on the 100mg doses..

[farrout]

Will do man, fairly sure I won't be feeling as good. From experience, I think I need a minimum of 160mg test/week.

[mrgeeky]

Will do man, fairly sure I won't be feeling as good. From experience, I think I need a minimum of 160mg test/week.

cheers mate..

Hope it works out.

A trip to Auck maybe the way for you to go..

Could see a doc here then just get them to send you a script every 3 months.

Im sure there are a couple of different docs here could help out with a better dosage if needed.

Just P.M me if you need to know more..

[farrout]

Thanks man ... I could happily take 200mg/week for the rest of my life, however doing that would be going against my endo & result in no more TRT from him. He's only doing his job & covering his arse like we do every day.

[mrgeeky]

Thanks man ... I could happily take 200mg/week for the rest of my life, however doing that would be going against my endo & result in no more TRT from him. He's only doing his job & covering his arse like we do every day.

yes but if you really do need 160mg pw to function properly that's not going to do you any good..