TRT advice please?

[Daz69]

That's good mate, just would have been helpful if you ever decide to come off. From the research ive done a lot of guys both young and old have successfully came off HRT and maintained healthy testosterone levels.

All the best

There is a lot of argument surrounding this. My doctor says its impossible to come off successfully! But I know body builders do it all the time. Some say time is the major factor.. How long before its too late! That is the big question I would really love to know. I have heard tales of people coming off after a couple of years but how true is that?

And what about after 5 or 10 years?

Im not sure if any one really knows the answer to any of those questions.

I thought the whole idea of being put on HRT is because as you get older your natural testosterone production starts to decline to such a noticeable degree it effects you mentally and physically enough for a doctor to prescribe Testosterone replacement. I wasn't aware this process was reversible..? Not amongst older males..!!!!!

I do know of younger males effected by opiate abuse that were initially given testosterone injections to supplement low test production, they are still on injections after several years...

So I'm unsure as to if it is possible to kick-start natural test if it has declined significantly, especially amongst us oldies..... lol :pfft:

[mrgeeky]

I think if your test is already low before messing with Test then you are pretty well screwed, especially if you have tried all the natural methods.

But in my case!

I cant help but wonder if I was totally clean for a while just what would happen..

it wasn't that long back (a couple of years ago) I had a level of 16 nmol/l

Although I still felt like crap. But then I had been messing with roids with out any knowledge of what I was doing..

Thrown in to the mix, I had an issue I only discovered recently where I found having breakfast was making me sick. I cant eat anything in the mornings or I just feel like crap all day long. The longer I go with out eating during the day, the better I feel. I could happily survive on one meal a day and I bet I would still be carrying fat.

I just seem to need very few calories to satisfy my food requirements every day. I know some will rubbish that but its a fact. I can only ever remember coming close to seeing my abs once in my life and I was on a very low calorie diet for months, training hard and taking roids.

Obvioulsy I don't expect others to believe that as there seems to be a (rough guide) standard requirement of calories for people based on their weight, height etc.

Anyway, so I just cant help but wonder if I stopped taking any test, and made a point of restricting food intake down to a bare minimal if I would be back to feeling like a box of birds again.

But then I put that in the all to hard basket. I don't have the will power to calorie restrict my self. Although my diet now is fairly clean.

Im not sure if this is all making sense.. What Im getting at, has food been my problem all along or was messing with roids the problem or were they both a problem combined? What if I restricted food intake and stopped using any roids altogether for some months? Would I be able to come off Test and feel good?

But then I feel so good on the test regardless of what I eat.. Im feeling better than I have in a long time and Im training hard - cardio! Test levels will only decline with age anyway so why fight a losing battle..

Nah I don't really want to come off the test Im enjoying life being on it too much. But I cant help but wonder?

Hope that all makes sense!

[Kalidane]

So skip your morning meal. No dramas.

How many calories are you eating each day?

Increasing cardio is likely going to be much better than minimising nutrients.

Being fit and fed is better than starvin' Marvin.

[mrgeeky]

So skip your morning meal. No dramas.

How many calories are you eating each day?

Increasing cardio is likely going to be much better than minimising nutrients.

Being fit and fed is better than starvin' Marvin.

I agree with your comments..

Im not a body builder so don't have to count calories. Not that I was ever any good at it when I did..

I think that's one of the things that sets the men (bodybuilders) from the boys. The ability to govern what you eat. I have spent years trying to get my head around it. It's one reason why I never could have been a body builder! Well not a good one anyway..

I really do take my hat off to the guys in this forum that are able to work out the calorie needs and stick to the strict regime. For us mere mortals is bloody hard to do. Far harder than pushing weights..

Im just down to two small meals a day.. Both clean with a good source of veges and protein and low in carbs. I eat the odd bit of fruit inbetween. When I can keep that up I start to see the weight coming off. But it seems to be so hard to keep this routine. A couple of nights with out sleep and there goes the diet! A trip out of town and there goes the diet!

How the hell you bodybuilders manage your diet let alone all the things that distract you from it, ie:funerals, holidays, lack of sleep, a friends wedding, Friday night beers with the boys, etc etc.. Its all beyond me how you guys manage it and I am sincere in saying I am in awe of people that can. I have tried for years.

[Daz69]

Im not a body builder so don't have to count calories. Not that I was ever any good at it when I did..

I think that's one of the things that sets the men (bodybuilders) from the boys. The ability to govern what you eat. I have spent years trying to get my head around it. It's one reason why I never could have been a body builder! Well not a good one anyway..

I really do take my hat off to the guys in this forum that are able to work out the calorie needs and stick to the strict regime. For us mere mortals is bloody hard to do. Far harder than pushing weights..

Im just down to two small meals a day.. Both clean with a good source of veges and protein and low in carbs. I eat the odd bit of fruit inbetween. When I can keep that up I start to see the weight coming off. But it seems to be so hard to keep this routine. A couple of nights with out sleep and there goes the diet! A trip out of town and there goes the diet!

How the hell you bodybuilders manage your diet let alone all the things that distract you from it, ie:funerals, holidays, lack of sleep, a friends wedding, Friday night beers with the boys, etc etc.. Its all beyond me how you guys manage it and I am sincere in saying I am in awe of people that can. I have tried for years.

You can get a huge buzz from the gear that can be enhanced for the few that reach Monster size...

Regards your two small meals a day: without the correct diet your body might struggle to produce enough of the essential hormones to keep levels at the appropriate levels.. You need cholesterol for your body to synthesise testosterone and other important hormones...

[mrgeeky]

You can get a huge buzz from the gear that can be enhanced for the few that reach Monster size...

Regards your two small meals a day: without the correct diet your body might struggle to produce enough of the essential hormones to keep levels at the appropriate levels.. You need cholesterol for your body to synthesise testosterone and other important hormones...

No worries there.. Im aprox 114kg. Carrying to much fat. Guess that shows Im not very good at sticking to my diet plan anyway lol

I seem to get a couple of weeks of good training and diet in, then something crops up, and another week seems to go by before Im back on track with my diet and training.. Another thing that amazes me about body builders is how the prioritize.. How they manage to let nothing get in the way of their training.

personally I just keep plugging away in hope I can see my abs one day..

So yeah, nutrition or lack of it is the least of my worries! Although im working on it.. It would be nice to think that getting enough food / nutrition could be a worry for me. Im not sure if that will ever be the case but Im trying though lol

cheers though Daz..

[Kalidane]

...

Im not a body builder so don't have to count calories. Not that I was ever any good at it when I did..

...

mmmm my sister is not a body builder and would benefit from tracking calories and macros for a couple weeks.

It's actually hard to eat enough good stuff without a proper record. Also very easy to eat too few/many calories.

If a person is trying to make their weight go up, or down, or change their composition it all starts with monitoring diet. Nothing else means a thing if this isn't happening. I can't express how imperative this is.

[mrgeeky]

...

Im not a body builder so don't have to count calories. Not that I was ever any good at it when I did..

...

mmmm my sister is not a body builder and would benefit from tracking calories and macros for a couple weeks.

It's actually hard to eat enough good stuff without a proper record. Also very easy to eat too few/many calories.

If a person is trying to make their weight go up, or down, or change their composition it all starts with monitoring diet. Nothing else means a thing if this isn't happening. I can't express how imperative this is.

dont agree.. Many people lose weight with out counting calories. Its about being sensible and about being able to restrict your self from eating shit food!

If I cut my meals down to a couple of smallish (still reasonable) meals a day and keep them clean, then add a light snack inbetween for hungry times.. ie an apple or two, then Im definitely going to lose weight. If I have the odd 1000 calorie chocy bar and the odd soft drink for lunch then knock back a 6 pack at night.. Its obvious whats going to happen.

I think counting calories definitely works but not everyone can do it. for some of us, its too hard. Take a piece of steak. How many calories in a piece of steak? Well that would depend on how big it is. How much it weighs.

Well Im sure as hell not going to start weighing my food..

I could go on but I think you can see where Im coming from.

for competitive body builders yes.. But I think the majorty are never going to get that serious bout there food.. I know Im over weight and I know whats causing it and I know how to lose weight! I just dont have the control to be strict about it, just like many others like myself.

Funny enough if I train I eat properly and lose weight.. As soon as I have a bad day and dont train, I tend to eat more than I should. Training seems to curb my appetite.. If I could be as strict about my training as some in here the rest would take care of its self. But there always seems to be interruptions.

[Kalidane]

In for 1000 calorie choccy bar!

Yep you can eat at a caloric deficit without monitoring diet and lose mass.

But are you getting enough vitamins, minerals, fibre, protein, fats? Who the f*ck knows.

Also there is a limit to how much fat can be mobilised to provide energy in a caloric deficit and you could end up breaking down muscle to help meet your energy needs.

I don't find it hard to weigh a steak. Also recording what you eat makes you much more conscious of what you're eating and that's helpful. When I started I found that the supermarket became a lot smaller - the vast majority of what they sell is just rubbish.

There are good reasons for weight watchers to use points (a rough measure of caloric density of the food) and why people here have a pretty accurate idea of what they've eaten. It's easier to get where you want to go by making that effort while being healthy along the way. Eat no fat for a week and see how fucked you feel.

The whole process gets easier and easier anyway - 1 1/2 cups of oats plus milk plus a can of fruit salad has the same values every time I have it. 40g protein powder in 300ml choc milk plus 2tbsp olive oil is the same everytime etc etc.

gnome saiyan?

[mrgeeky]

In for 1000 calorie choccy bar!

Yep you can eat at a caloric deficit without monitoring diet and lose mass.

But are you getting enough vitamins, minerals, fibre, protein, fats? Who the f*ck knows.

Also there is a limit to how much fat can be mobilised to provide energy in a caloric deficit and you could end up breaking down muscle to help meet your energy needs.

I don't find it hard to weigh a steak. Also recording what you eat makes you much more conscious of what you're eating and that's helpful. When I started I found that the supermarket became a lot smaller - the vast majority of what they sell is just rubbish.

There are good reasons for weight watchers to use points (a rough measure of caloric density of the food) and why people here have a pretty accurate idea of what they've eaten. It's easier to get where you want to go by making that effort while being healthy along the way. Eat no fat for a week and see how fucked you feel.

The whole process gets easier and easier anyway - 1 1/2 cups of oats plus milk plus a can of fruit salad has the same values every time I have it. 40g protein powder in 300ml choc milk plus 2tbsp olive oil is the same everytime etc etc.

gnome saiyan?

I was reading this post again the other day and decided, time to listen to you!  For some reason this post has given me the kick up the backside that i needed.

I am using myfitnesspal and it seems to be doing the trick.. Im finding it hard to understand how I am eating shit loads and still not reaching my goals, but the good thing is, I got to be losing weight if fitnesspal is to be believed..  Any way, cheers for steering me in the right direction.. otheres have offered the same advice as you but for some reason it was your post that finally got me to listen..  Wish I had of been more receptive to this type of advice ages ago..  Oh well.. Some people are hard learners.. lol cheer mate.

[Murhf]

Iam not the best at couting calories either, so I do a shit load of cardio, still get about 200grams protien a day, 2 meals [lunch, dinner] plus porridge for breaky. 50 gram Pro shake after gym 1.00pm]  another at 8.00pm. Multi vits and a ton of fish oil. I lose wieght like this,but had an injury 6 weeks ago, didn.t go to the gym for 4 weeks...wow added a wobbly 3 kg of feckin fat!!!

[mrgeeky]

Iam not the best at couting calories either, so I do a shit load of cardio, still get about 200grams protien a day, 2 meals [lunch, dinner] plus porridge for breaky. 50 gram Pro shake after gym 1.00pm]  another at 8.00pm. Multi vits and a ton of fish oil. I lose wieght like this,but had an injury 6 weeks ago, didn.t go to the gym for 4 weeks...wow added a wobbly 3 kg of feckin fat!!!

I think the average consensus is, if you are losing weight (fat) its very hard to add muscle at the same time.. Im pretty sure thats what most think.

Im finding fitness pal is brilliant for counting calories, makes it all so simple. Its something I have avoided like the plauge for years, now its all so easy. Wish I had of got off my ass and done this years ago when others told me too.. Im a slow learner Im afraid.

Using fitnesspal also has made me aware of the bad foods in my diet so the last 4 days that I have been using fitnesspal my food has been very clean. Im amazed at how much food you are allowed to consume and still be able to lose weight if eating very clean and counting calories.

STuffed if I can fit in all my calories for the day.. I have only eaten 1,459 cals for today.. And still way off my target for protien. I have only eaten 141 out of my needed 216 and I have already tweaked that 215 down from what it should be.. STuffed if I can eat like body builders do lol. Too hard.  STill the weight is coming off  and I have engergy to burn so I guess thats all that matters.. CAnt wait to see if I can actually add muslce while doing this..  measured my gut today..

Absolutely friggen amazed.. I was up and down from 120 cm to 117..  Measured my gut yesterday after pigging out all day and I was 114 cm around the tummy.. That was only after 3 days.. Stuffed if I understand it..   Anyway, all looking good, time for before and after phtotos soon.. :-)

Injuries are a pain in the ass.. So much down time, so easy to just throw in the towel and eat junk food and get fat while waiting to heal..   Next time I get an injury Im going to step up cardio until I can return to weights. I reckon thats the way to go....

[Ketogains]

Well mate - heres my 2 cents just like to say at the begining there are many different ways to go just as there are many different body types and metabolism factors so no single right way or wrong way, just what works for you.

I have struggled with weight for the last decade, i love carbs i love eating bread chips and pizza not to mention sugar. But over the last 9 months i have discovered 2 things that have turned me around. Ketogenic lifestyle and intermittent fasting. 

Heres the guts of it - ketogenic part of my life = most days i head under 30g net carbs if i can. i dont eat a lot of fruit and breads totally gone. but if im not working out i get to cheat once a week and you can puound those carbs hard for 2 meals on that one day. the reason for that is because as you continue on a low carb diet the body reacts and adjusts to the new lifestyle and you dont get the same losses of body fat, so by smashing the carbs for an afternoon you body goes " oh were doing carbs again ill just reconfigure" and then when you deny it for the next week you end up getting the same big losses you had in your first week, wash rinse and repeat.

if you are working out and trying to build you Can cheat smaller and more often directly after an intense resistance workout - preferably at night - 2 separate bio mechanics come into play , your body has a dialy insulin resistance cycle sensative in the morning resistant at night. Resistance workouts push Glut-4 tranporters to your muscle cell walls (Glut-4 transporters pull glycogen out of blood stream and replenish glycogen stores in muscle cells)   so with those in mind you now have created a bais as to where the glycogen from digested carbs goes. must finish meal 2 hours before bed - if you do itthat way you want junky fast carbs not pasta or brown bread you want to pike insulin - insulin not only transports glycogen into cells it also prepares cells to recieve nutrients so if your having this meal after a workout and about to go into the sleep build cycle this has been shown to be beneficial - remember we have already created the bias for the sugar part of what you ate.

Im pretty bad at explaining shit in a consise way so i probably missed something out.

A normal day for me though would be black coffee no sugar 40grams of butter or coconut oil in it. body has a lot of cortisol in it after waking till about 10pm so that will crash if your body senses you ate either sugar or protien. since cortisol is a great fat burner i want it to stay for the morning - eating melted butter sounds gross right? doesnt sound logical eating fat to lose fat but i tell ya its working for me. i also take 2 1mg nicotine lollies with my coffee - havent smoked in years but i read a really interesting study that showed tgat caffine and nicotine synergise for an additional 15% fat burn 100mg caffine to 1mg nicotine was optimal i have the lollies 1 hour apart.

Lunch would be a handfull of nuts some cauli/broccoli cabbage boiled up with some corned beef. i eat o lot of cruciforus vegies good for viceral fat burning.

Dinner might look similar i try to mix up the protien part as best i can for variety - gotta include the vegies or you'll be shitting concrete cylinders in no time if you get lax on the fat intake - not fun.

Eating the right fat is important its not the enemy you need it - as an earlier poster mentioned cholesterol is the basic substrate for all hormones the body produces - sugar is the real enemy. also goo to note that limiting carbs and using fat as an energy source realy cuts down your hunger fat wont pick you up and drop you like carbs or sugar will.

ok im beginning a novel here - never ment to just wanted to add whats working for me right now - i have lost about 15kg of net weight i think the fat amount is more because my arms chest and shoulders are visibly bigger now after working out at gym for 6 months