TRT advice please?

[mrgeeky]

Im on TRT.. Been on for apox 13 months now..

Due to being an idiot and not doing my research before playing with gear..

Anyway that aside, I was wondering what is the best course to take..

Until now I have been taking 4 capsuals morning and 3 at night. So a total of 7 x 40mg Andriol Testocaps per day. - Testosterone Undecanoate

Been feeling good so no worries there..

The doc suggested I try injectibles..

I went in thinking they were going to show me what to do and let me go away and inject.. but no, apparently not.. I went in and the nurse gave me a shot in my upper butt/ lower back area.. She said that's the only place it can go and I need to come to see them on a reg basis for shots..

They currently have me on Sustanon 250 but the nurse didn't even seem to be able to tell me how often I needed to come back in for shots..

I'll clear that up with them the next day the docs are open..

So some questions for the you knowledgeable ones if I may?

1, How often do I need these shots? Anyone know?

It says on the packet every 3 weeks but Im sure the doc said every two.

2, Was the nurse wrong, can I inject them myself, and if so where? The thigh?

3, I had a discussion with some one today that seemed way outta whack. They reckon sustanol will make me put on weight/fat.. From all I have read and understand and experienced, that's bull dust. If anything it will help me burn fat..

4, Is this the best product for me to be on for life.. Or is there something better I should be looking at?

5, Are there any negatives for being on TRT health wise or is it all benefit?

Any advice please guys?

[dannyjay]

lol how old are you?

1. Doctor will arrange your protocol

2. you'll have to talk to doctor if you can take home a bottle and inject yourself otherwise you'll have to go into clinic to get a shot

3. high test can help keep the body lean

4. sustanon

5. negatives = aromatization into estrogen/possible lowered sperm count

[tomsammce]

Do what the doctor says,

You using this for trt not for sports performance, am I correct?

So ur doctor has more idea on this as he is the one monitoring your blood results etc.

[mrgeeky]

I am using it for TRT but I shall be doing some cycles when Im back to pushing weights properly..

Got a torn rotator cuff which is putting me out of commission at the mo..

I know there are quite a few people in here that have had different experiences with different substances while on TRT..

Some find they have highs and lows while on depending what they are taking.

I know the long term acting test is by far the best but its not free unfortuantely.

There is a lot of knowledge surrounding this out there.. So Im just looking for others experiences.

[mrgeeky]

Do what the doctor says,

You using this for trt not for sports performance, am I correct?

So ur doctor has more idea on this as he is the one monitoring your blood results etc.

If I can get the info Im after I'll be going back to the doc armed with it to see what he thinks.. he already seems to have changed the game plan on me a couple of times.. Last time I spoke I thought he had recommended the weekly shots.. Which was what I was thinking I was getting this time..

There are people that have tried the weekly shots, vs 2 weekly and have stated the 2 weekly doesn't work that well as coming to the end of it, Test levels drop to low leaving them feeling down.

I haven't heard of the 3 weekly injections until talking to the nurse today..

I know I really need to be going back to my doc and trying to narrow all this stuff down with him but he lives way over the other side of town and its just finding time to get there.. for now Im interested in others experiences..

[mrgeeky]

lol how old are you?

1. Doctor will arrange your protocol

2. you'll have to talk to doctor if you can take home a bottle and inject yourself otherwise you'll have to go into clinic to get a shot

3. high test can help keep the body lean

4. sustanon

5. negatives = aromatization into estrogen/possible lowered sperm count

cheers I appreciate the replies..

ignoring the age one lol

Unless you were being serious..

Going to the clinic to get a shot every few weeks for the rest of my life? Stuff that, what a pain.. .. plenty of others just inject themselves...

Its not like its rocket science.. But yeah, I'll have to convince the doc I suppose.. Im sure others here on TRT have said they just inject themselves..

[maccaz]

Im on TRT.. Been on for apox 13 months now..

Due to being an idiot and not doing my research before playing with gear..

what did you do that made you need trt?

[dannyjay]

i was being serious lol

[mrgeeky]

Im on TRT.. Been on for apox 13 months now..

Due to being an idiot and not doing my research before playing with gear..

what did you do that made you need trt?

when I was in my 30's, (Im now 51) I got hold of some Decca Durabolin.

I took it for 6 months with a short break in between.. ie: Two 3 month cycles with from memory a few weeks break in between.

On Decca you need to be taking test.. I didn't know that Decca would shut down my own testosterone.. So I was virtually with out an test for a 6 month period.

I don't think I ever recovered from that.. I always thought something was wrong when I just lacked sting for years..

Not knowing what was wrong I carried on experimenting with test.. Mainly stuff from doctors that didn't know what they were doing..

Only cause I talked them in to giving it to me..

At one part I was on one 40mg test cap per day.. Jeeze my test levels must have been extremely low.. I thought I was topping up my own test.. Not replacing it..

I experimented with test patches, test lozengers, etc.

At one point my levels as tested were 90 nmol/l as measured by a shocked endo that I went too..

All the time while taking it I stopped and started as I felt like it.. No PCT ever at any stage.. Some times weeks on, some times months on.. I can remember periods when I stopped taking it that I would sit there with my head in my hands feeling majorly depressed thinking wtf is wrong with me..

Any way to cut a long story short I still had test levels of 16 but I think my own test wasn't doing its job properly. I was just feeling like crap all the time..

Last time I got tested I was at 13 nmol/l so I went and got some proper advice. He said best solution was to go on permanently..

Kind of reminds me when I first stepped in to a gym at 26 years of age..

I did benching pressing every session for over a year.. Coz that's what I thought you did.. No one told me any different until I got an injury..

Funny thing was I could never figure out why the skinny little dude next to me could push three times as much yet he never benched anywhere near as often as I did lol

yep yep, some people are just slow learners!

[yeelang]

would rather take trans-dermal test for TRT, however I'm not sure if it's available via prescription and if you are going to be cycling anyway there is no point.

[mrgeeky]

would rather take trans-dermal test for TRT, however I'm not sure if it's available via prescription and if you are going to be cycling anyway there is no point.

cheers I have tried it.. problem is I do a lot sports and when ever the patches got wet with sweat they came off.

I remember in a judo lesson one night the patch came off and was lying in the middle of the mats... A little embarrassing..

also from memory the dose of the patches are quite low.. Yeah tried them, not really my cup of tea..

I might have to go back through some of my old post.. I remember there was a guy in here who was on TRT who had some very good advice.

Will share it if I can find it... Hope hes' still about..

[mrgeeky]

The following are some of the side effects that are known to be associated with this medicine. Because a side effect is stated here, it does not mean that all people using this medicine will experience that or any side effect.

Pain at injection site.

Headache.

Breast pain, enlargement of the breasts.

Salt and water retention.

Swelling caused by fluid retention (oedema).

Weight gain.

Hair loss.

Acne.

Depression.

Hostility.

Nervousness.

Prostate problems.

Persistent painful erection of the penis (priapism).

Decreased sperm count.

Reduced volume of ejaculation.

Increased levels of red blood cells and haemoglobin in the blood.

Jaundice.

Liver tumours.

The side effects listed above may not include all of the side effects reported by the drug's manufacturer.

[mrgeeky]

Huh?how the hell does one get "enlargement of the breasts" by taking test? :shock:

[mrgeeky]

" All testosterone use opens the door for an aromatizing effect so estrogenic related side-effects will always be a concern. Issues such as Gynecomastia, high blood pressure, water retention and other estrogenic effects such as decreased sex drive can occur. This is why it is of utmost importance to use a good aromatase inhibitor when supplementing with testosterone; by doing so, coupled with using responsibly we greatly improve our chances of positive and enjoyable use."

:shock:

[mrgeeky]

all news to me.. I have heard of people using aromatize prohibitors while on PCT but full time while on Test? huh? :shock:

[AZIDE]

.

[yeelang]

would rather take trans-dermal test for TRT, however I'm not sure if it's available via prescription and if you are going to be cycling anyway there is no point.

Will share it if I can find it... Hope hes' still about..

I'm talking about a transdermal gel not a patch. gel takes a bout 10 minutes to absorb (depending on the base) and then you're good to go. Only downside is if you are trying to run a large amount of test and some people react differently to the gel depending on how agressive it is (dry skin， etc)

[Daz69]

They currently have me on Sustanon 250 but the nurse didn't even seem to be able to tell me how often I needed to come back in for shots..

I'll clear that up with them the next day the docs are open..

So some questions for the you knowledgeable ones if I may?

1, How often do I need these shots? Anyone know?

It says on the packet every 3 weeks but Im sure the doc said every two.

2, Was the nurse wrong, can I inject them myself, and if so where? The thigh?

3, I had a discussion with some one today that seemed way outta whack. They reckon sustanol will make me put on weight/fat.. From all I have read and understand and experienced, that's bull dust. If anything it will help me burn fat..

4, Is this the best product for me to be on for life.. Or is there something better I should be looking at?

5, Are there any negatives for being on TRT health wise or is it all benefit?

Any advice please guys?

Hey M8'....

Don't take it for granted your Doc will be able to advise you correctly on choice of compounds or injection spacing protocol....

Regards Sustanon 250... It was originally designed for TRT but it has drawbacks, in my opinion there are better alternatives like Cypionate...

I'll explain my reasoning:

Sustanon 250 has four esters attached to the testosterone molecule Propionate, Phenylpropionate, Iscaproate, & Decanoate..

Each release at different rates into the blood stream, from memory just over 2 days for Propionate & Phenylpropionate, 4.5 days for Iscaproate, and I think 7 days for Decanoate.. He may have different info on half lives which equates to double the figures I have given you.. In short they are bollocks and relate to a f*ck-up on carbon atom calculations by Bill Robberts many years ago...

Unfortunately all the esters in Sustanon 250 start releasing after about 16 hours to about 2 days'ish... Ester dependent..!!

In short what this means is you get a large spike in blood levels after a couple of days which then decrease to bugger all after about a week'ish, so pinning every 2-3 weeks won't really cut the mustard...

Testosterone on the Cypionate Ester pinned once every 6 ish days to account for its half life of six days will give you steadier blood concentrations, ideal for TRT....

So I think that answers question 1.

2. you can inject yourself, either where the nurse injected in your glute, or there are several places in each thigh, or your delts..

3. You may increase muscle mass slightly, you won't gain fat unless you eat shit and too much of it..

4. Test Cyp is ideal for TRT, there are several on here who swear by it...

5. We are talking low dose testosterone therapy for TRT, I don't believe there are any negatives to healthy testosterone levels, its a natural hormone your body produces for a reason... your fucked without it..

[musclenz]

They currently have me on Sustanon 250 but the nurse didn't even seem to be able to tell me how often I needed to come back in for shots..

I'll clear that up with them the next day the docs are open..

So some questions for the you knowledgeable ones if I may?

1, How often do I need these shots? Anyone know?

It says on the packet every 3 weeks but Im sure the doc said every two.

2, Was the nurse wrong, can I inject them myself, and if so where? The thigh?

3, I had a discussion with some one today that seemed way outta whack. They reckon sustanol will make me put on weight/fat.. From all I have read and understand and experienced, that's bull dust. If anything it will help me burn fat..

4, Is this the best product for me to be on for life.. Or is there something better I should be looking at?

5, Are there any negatives for being on TRT health wise or is it all benefit?

Any advice please guys?

Hey M8'....

Don't take it for granted your Doc will be able to advise you correctly on choice of compounds or injection spacing protocol....

Regards Sustanon 250... It was originally designed for TRT but it has drawbacks, in my opinion there are better alternatives like Cypionate...

I'll explain my reasoning:

Sustanon 250 has four esters attached to the testosterone molecule Propionate, Phenylpropionate, Iscaproate, & Decanoate..

Each release at different rates into the blood stream, from memory just over 2 days for Propionate & Phenylpropionate, 4.5 days for Iscaproate, and I think 7 days for Decanoate.. He may have different info on half lives which equates to double the figures I have given you.. In short they are bollocks and relate to a f*ck-up on carbon atom calculations by Bill Robberts many years ago...

Unfortunately all the esters in Sustanon 250 start releasing after about 16 hours to about 2 days'ish... Ester dependent..!!

In short what this means is you get a large spike in blood levels after a couple of days which then decrease to bugger all after about a week'ish, so pinning every 2-3 weeks won't really cut the mustard...

Testosterone on the Cypionate Ester pinned once every 6 ish days to account for its half life of six days will give you steadier blood concentrations, ideal for TRT....

So I think that answers question 1.

2. you can inject yourself, either where the nurse injected in your glute, or there are several places in each thigh, or your delts..

3. You may increase muscle mass slightly, you won't gain fat unless you eat shit and too much of it..

4. Test Cyp is ideal for TRT, there are several on here who swear by it...

5. We are talking low dose testosterone therapy for TRT, I don't believe there are any negatives to healthy testosterone levels, its a natural hormone your body produces for a reason... your fucked without it..

All this ^^. TRT is a much under reted theraphy for hypogondal men. All of the negative sides are far outweighed by the positive feeling of well being, brain function, bone & muscle mass density, lack of anxiety & heightened focus & sexual function. The medical profession have not been educated in its use in both males & females (going thru menopause) because Big Pharma would rather sell a concoction of destructive drugs to people to keep sales up.

[mrgeeky]

Thank you guys, I really appreciate the advice.. I'll make an appointment with the doc and take a print out of the above to see what he thinks..

Obviously pinning every 3 weeks is easier than every week..

I can see it being a pain pinning every week for the rest of my life, but if needs be I suppose..

Another question if I may, does anyone have any thoughts on the longer term injectable..

Im not sure exactly what is is, but its supposed to last 10 weeks or more per inject! I hve heard some say its brilliant and works well, only its not funded..

$160 per shot..

Any one heard much about it?

[Daz69]

Thank you guys, I really appreciate the advice.. I'll make an appointment with the doc and take a print out of the above to see what he thinks..

Obviously pinning every 3 weeks is easier than every week..

I can see it being a pain pinning every week for the rest of my life, but if needs be I suppose..

Another question if I may, does anyone have any thoughts on the longer term injectable..

Im not sure exactly what is is, but its supposed to last 10 weeks or more per inject! I hve heard some say its brilliant and works well, only its not funded..

$160 per shot..

Any one heard much about it?

Your blood levels of testosterone will be bouncing up and down creating too big a peak in relation to the subsequent trough injecting every 3 weeks, I have a mate in his 50's does it and he feels like shit in his last week...

I've explained how Test-Cypionate half-lifes at about 6 days (ie: half the compound of 100mg will have been released into his blood after 6 days thats 50mg)... When he takes into account the compounded half lives of subsequent injections each week from week one there will be a steady build-up from 50mg + 25mg + 12.5mg + 6.25mg + 3.125mg until it becomes negligible..

So you see after injecting for about 5 weeks you should roughly be getting a steady 98mg into your blood stream every week, thats pretty shit-hot for an oldie... He feels great after changing his pinning protocol to once every 6 or 7 days....

Remember the Testosterone doesn't release equally from day one (if it did it would be ideal, but it doesn't)..

After about 2-3 days you get a peak (high) in blood plasma levels which slowly decreases to account for the esters half-life (Cypionate = 6 days) which reduces over the next 6 days and so on....

When you look at the peaks done in clinical studys your best case scenario would be to pin half the standard amount every 3 days to keep blood plasma levels as steady as possible.... (every time you inject you get a peak in blood levels (high) it drops off which I call a trough (low) before your next injection)

Its these peaks or rather the subsequent trough you want to minimise to keep as steadier levels as possible to avoid any hormonal side effects...

But in saying that your not talking about body-building @ 1000mg +/week, you are asking about HRT and dosing at 100mg/week.....

So your peaks and troughs won't be anyway near what we get.... So you should be great to go at.....

One other thing worth mentioning: a 100mg dose of Test-Cypionate doesn't contain 100mg of Testosterone, 100mg is the total weight including the ester...

So you may be getting about 72mg per shot......

Here is an article that discusses TU: (the long estered version)

http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/575492

feel free to give kudos if you are suitably pleased..... :wink:

[mrgeeky]

sorry guys, I didn't know about this kudos thing..

Other wise I would have used it in the past..

Was going to give you two daz but it would only allow me the first one lol

cheers for the info...

muscle nz I just gave you a kudos for your post.. You are always so helpful too.. much appreciated..

I have heard about the 3 week sustanon being not that great due to highs and lows hence my reason for posting in here so I appreciate you guys confirming this for me..

I will talk to my doc about the weekly injects but its not something I really want to every week for the rest of my life.. If so I'll probably go back on the caps.. They were easy enough to take.. Just make a point of having them with breaky and the evening meal.. All simple and work ok.. Don't leave me feeling like superman but its a hell of a lot better than I was in the past.

My last option is I have heard really good things about the long term injection... And have heard it really works well.. I'll see if I can find a previous post from some one else in here about it and will post it.. So I guess this long term injectable is what I need info on now...

[mrgeeky]

Found it! :-)

Reandron is the best for HRT in NZ (my opinion).

I have tried it and I know a few old guys on it.

One guy 70+yes old gets 1 4ml ampule delivered by his doctor to administer himself. He gets 2 blood tests done, one a week before the 3 mths is up and one a week after pinning...every single time.

His Test levels are 18nmols at the end of the 3mths, and 37 a week after pinning Reandron.

You could then top up from that with other compounds IMO. Reandron rocks!

[mrgeeky]

the more I research the better this option looks..

"HI I have been on testosterone for 14 years now and I have been using reandron for the last three or four years , it works really well for me without the peaks and troughs that you can get with the shorter term medication. Each person has a different response to testosterone and I think it is important to work out what levels you need to feel comfortable.

When I started out many years ago I was on sustanon and my gp who monitored me would check the peak and trough measurements, by doing this we worked out what levels I need to feel comfortable"

And from another site!

"Hello everybody. I'm a 50 yo man who has recently found out that I have had "hypogonadism" since puberty.

My doctor was treating me for low testosterone with Sustonen 250 but my levels were very low. After referal to an endocrinologist, I changed onto Reandron 1000 to try and stablise my testosterone levels. Feeling a lot better now!

I've had my 2nd shot 6 weeks after the first shot and have to have shots every 9 weeks apart. The 3rd shot is due in 2 weeks. I know that my testosterone should level out between the 3rd and 5th shots (depending on the person) from my research on Reandron. The graphs that I've seen on the absorbsion rate of Reandron show that the highest concentration of testosterone is at about 2.5 weeks (around 32 nmol/l) after the shot and reduces down to about 14 nmol/l after 10 weeks."

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