Mechanism of the esterase enzyme

[Daz69]

I've recently read on another forum that some people can lack the esterase enzyme needed to break down particular esters, Cypionate and Enanthate were mentioned, and thus do not respond to certain estered testosterone..?

Not being well versed in pharmacology or biochemistry I'm unsure to the specific actions of esters, could someone pls explain...

Thanks in advance.....

[I Declare War]

http://thinksteroids.com/articles/enzym ... -steroids/

[musclenz]

Strong post Daz.....didn't you do a thesis on this subject some time ago :grin: Generally its the number of atoms in the carbon chain of each ester as to how quickly they are cleaved off by the esterase enzymes. Aren't these bound by zinc? This may explain the need for zinc in the diet for natty testosterone production. Not sure of the pharmacology

[Daz69]

The guy is reckoning he doesn't have enough of the enzymes in his body to remove the ester, therefore rendering the esterified testosterone in his blood stream biologically inactive...

From how I understand it: The esters attached to the testosterone molecule are all made of the same basic elements, Carbon Hydrogen and Oxygen. Just about the only difference is the length of the ester in terms of the number of carbon atoms it contains. The carbon atoms form the 'backbone' of the ester with little hydrogen atoms poking off it, A basic Hydrocarbon structure. The carboxylic acid is added to the alcohol group on the testosterone molecule to form a bond. This bond between the testosterone molecule and the acid is called an ester bond so technically when we refer to the "ester" we are referring to the carboxylic acid part of the molecule.

There are two types of enzymes which can cleave this bond, esterases and hydrolases(sp?) they can remove any type of ester whether it be prop, enanth or cyp. This is because the enzymes target the 'ester bond' so regardless of how long the carboxylic acid group is or its composition the bond is the same for each ester of testosterone. I don't know how correct my assumption is because I couldn't find much research on the matter but what I assume is that this is why time to reach the peak concentration of testosterone in the blood is the same regardless of ester length. The length of the ester doesn't determine the speed at which the ester is cleaved off the testosterone molecule but influences its solubility, so longer esters mean that it takes longer for the molecule to get absorbed into the blood stream where it can be exposed to the enzymes which remove the ester.

This is what I was trying to explain, if he is lacking enzymes that remove the ester, might his esterified test remain biologically inactive.....

He reckons only Propionate works for him and no other esterified testosterone does...???? Is this possible..??

[I Declare War]

The guy is reckoning he doesn't have enough of the enzymes in his body to remove the ester, therefore rendering the esterified testosterone in his blood stream biologically inactive...

From how I understand it: The esters attached to the testosterone molecule are all made of the same basic elements, Carbon Hydrogen and Oxygen. Just about the only difference is the length of the ester in terms of the number of carbon atoms it contains. The carbon atoms form the 'backbone' of the ester with little hydrogen atoms poking off it, A basic Hydrocarbon structure. The carboxylic acid is added to the alcohol group on the testosterone molecule to form a bond. This bond between the testosterone molecule and the acid is called an ester bond so technically when we refer to the "ester" we are referring to the carboxylic acid part of the molecule.

There are two types of enzymes which can cleave this bond, esterases and hydrolases(sp?) they can remove any type of ester whether it be prop, enanth or cyp. This is because the enzymes target the 'ester bond' so regardless of how long the carboxylic acid group is or its composition the bond is the same for each ester of testosterone. I don't know how correct my assumption is because I couldn't find much research on the matter but what I assume is that this is why time to reach the peak concentration of testosterone in the blood is the same regardless of ester length. The length of the ester doesn't determine the speed at which the ester is cleaved off the testosterone molecule but influences its solubility, so longer esters mean that it takes longer for the molecule to get absorbed into the blood stream where it can be exposed to the enzymes which remove the ester.

This is what I was trying to explain, if he is lacking enzymes that remove the ester, might his esterified test remain biologically inactive.....

He reckons only Propionate works for him and no other esterified testosterone does...???? Is this possible..??

Can you post a link so that we can read his argument. It sounds like a load of unsubstantiated rubbish to me. If he were to miss such a crucial enzyme in his body... he'd probably be dead. We don't just have these enzymes so that we can juice up on esterified gear... they do a bunch of other things too.

Also, when an ester is treated with aqueous acid (the blood stream) and heat it is converted into a carboxylic acid and free hormone by hydrolysis (splitting on reaction with water).

[musclenz]

I thought that once the ester had been dismantled by esterase & hyrolase enzymes it was bioactive in the blood supply & could be measured as Free Testosterone. Suggest that you do search on the bio-availability of testosterone in the blood supply & work backwards to see if there is any truth in his arguement. THe reason why there are little studies done is because its in the naughty boys club Haaa

[Chemo]

Interesting topic. Pretty high quality to most of whats on here. luls

What made you bring it up daz?

This has to be a severely rare case to not have those enzymes.

Does it pose the question that we have varying degrees of this enzyme and that some of us may have a better chance to get all of that sweet sweet test goodness?

[Daz69]

I thought that once the ester had been dismantled by esterase & hyrolase enzymes it was bioactive in the blood supply & could be measured as Free Testosterone. Suggest that you do search on the bio-availability of testosterone in the blood supply & work backwards to see if there is any truth in his arguement. THe reason why there are little studies done is because its in the naughty boys club Haaa

Yep already done that, he's showing what I think is quite high:

Testosterone Total: 4937 H 250-1100 ng/dl

Free Testosterone: 1328.1 H 35-155 pg/ml

This is one of the clowns posts:

I don't respond to test cyp at all. My body lacks esterase enzyme to break down the cyp ester. I have talked to many people about this with the same problem and most were on trt from the doc. They say only test prop works. on them

[musclenz]

I thought that once the ester had been dismantled by esterase & hyrolase enzymes it was bioactive in the blood supply & could be measured as Free Testosterone. Suggest that you do search on the bio-availability of testosterone in the blood supply & work backwards to see if there is any truth in his arguement. THe reason why there are little studies done is because its in the naughty boys club Haaa

Yep already done that, he's showing what I think is quite high:

Testosterone Total: 4937 H 250-1100 ng/dl

Free Testosterone: 1328.1 H 35-155 pg/ml

This is one of the clowns posts:

I don't respond to test cyp at all. My body lacks esterase enzyme to break down the cyp ester. I have talked to many people about this with the same problem and most were on trt from the doc. They say only test prop works. on them

Test results in US Mass Concentration ranges are off the scale so I have no idea what he's complaining about. If he had tests using Propionate & then Cypionate showing a descrepancy at the same level of dose & conditions at time of administration, there could be some basis for further research on his theory.

[Daz69]

Test results in US Mass Concentration ranges are off the scale so I have no idea what he's complaining about. If he had tests using Propionate & then Cypionate showing a descrepancy at the same level of dose & conditions at time of administration, there could be some basis for further research on his theory.

That's what I said, the test is present in his blood stream, if he's not getting results he's probably not training or eating correctly, I don't think the gear is in anyway bunk, I don't believe his excuse of not having the required esterase enzymes stands up.....

[I Declare War]

Test results in US Mass Concentration ranges are off the scale so I have no idea what he's complaining about. If he had tests using Propionate & then Cypionate showing a descrepancy at the same level of dose & conditions at time of administration, there could be some basis for further research on his theory.

That's what I said, the test is present in his blood stream, if he's not getting results he's probably not training or eating correctly, I don't think the gear is in anyway bunk, I don't believe his excuse of not having the required esterase enzymes stands up.....

Sounds like rubbish. Maybe it's time he took a break or a cruise.

[severe]

Is he qualified in medical science to interpret his lack of results with some specific genetic imbalance? Broscience top 10.

[tomsammce]

Guy prob just bought fake gear lol

/thread