Antagonistic Superset Training

[tgzerozone]

Yea Shane, all good now. It's mainly the laziness I am having to deal with now. Gotta get myself back into it monday.

[shane]

Know that hurdle well once you back into it it's sweet but just making that first step is the hardest :grin:

[jimmybro1]

Just had a go at it shane at the events center in Te Awamutu (which was open )

Was wicked hit PBs all around, super stoked with my bent over rows!

[shane]

Sweet jimmybro1 how was the pump for chest and back I like tis type of training. the only body part I train by them self is shoulders but I like to superset exercise's when doing them.

[jimmybro1]

Sweet jimmybro1 how was the pump for chest and back I like tis type of training. the only body part I train by them self is shoulders but I like to superset exercise's when doing them.

Was good more of a pump in my lats than anything else. I did low reps so reasonably heavy weight. Not a fan of high rep work.

Was going to super set deadlifts with flat press but when I was super setting incline press with bent over rows through it might be a bit to challenging.

Workout was:

Superset 1

-Incline barbell press 100kgx5

-Bent Over Rows 140kgx6

Superset 2:

-Flat flies 22.5kgx12

-BW Pull Ups 12

Did 4 sets of each was good workout.

[shane]

Sweet I do sets of 12 10 8 my change it to low reps next couple of weeks

[shane]

Have you continued to do this type of training jimmybro1? I like been changing exercise often found my weights are going up and getting stronger.

[jimmybro1]

Yup i'm going to do it every Friday as a complementary workout. Both areas I'm waiting to bring up this offseason.

However my training is going to change soon as I'm working towards some powerlifting meets.

[ohjoshua]

IMO it works well for biceps/triceps. I'm not so sure about larger muscles that are harder to work out. For that, I'd probably alternate exercises - ie, 3 sets of bench, followed by 3 sets of rows, etc.

I normally can only make it training once a week. So i do bench press super setted with bent over bb rows. This way I use the same weight to stay balanced. and it saves time setting up for anther exercise. I just grab the weight off the bp and row it after my set.

I rate it.

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

i've started doing it too but more so for purposes of squeezing some endurance/cardio work out of the weights session at the same time. have found that i've been getting stronger and just feel better over all. also only hit the gym 2~3x a week now instead of 4~5x really good stuff

[shane]

Yeah I find this type of training good as well just change it up every so often

[mbag012]

i like to do this for chinups and dips for this.

[HumanPerformance]

Supersetting opposing muscle groups (agonist and antagonist) works well for a variety of reasons. When one performs a bicep curl for example (biceps being the "agonist") the triceps stretch and relax. This stretching and relaxing facilitates faster recovery (we are assuming here that the triceps have just been under load) so when you return to the triceps movement you should be stronger due to faster recovery time.

Another reason the antagonist muscle is often stronger whilst loaded under this protocol is that it helps to deactivate the Tendon Golgi Reflex (TGR). For those that don't know the TGR is a protective reflex mechanism in our muscles that stops a muscle from contracting to its full capacity. This is why a heavy set of barbell rows is often performed immediately before performing a record bench press attempt (many world records have been broken using this technique).

As mentioned by some in earlier posts when performing this type of training with larger muscle groups (i.e chest and back) a certain amount of cardiovascular fitness is needed if one wants to follow this pattern through the entire workout. A variation on this is to superset a larger muscle like chest with a smaller muscle like biceps which is less metabolically challenging.

One reason why Arnold used this training technique frequently was because he often trained each muscle group 2 to 3 times a week and so through necessity had to train more than one muscle group pre workout. If as mentioned earlier your cardio fitness is good enough you can train both chest and back for example (with no drop in strength) in the same time it takes you to train either one by itself.

[shane]

Can you do pullovers when doing this type of training, I'm thinking yes becuse it works chest and back at the same time.

[Pseudonym]

Here's an article in favour of antagonistic supersets. In fact, it pretty much rubbishes any other form of training.

Body-Part Training Is Dead
By Joseph Arangio, M.S., C.S.C.S.

You don't have to sport a permed mullet and baggy muscle pants to look like an outdated bodybuilder. For most guys, all it requires is a trip to the gym. Why? Because the average lifter still organizes his workouts by body part, designating a separate day to train his chest, shoulders, arms, and so on. Sound familiar? It's a common approach that was popularized in the '80s by every muscle and fitness mag on the planet. (And still is.) It's not wrong--plenty of muscleheads swear by it. But it is antiquated. Think about it: Everything else has evolved and improved in the last 20 years--shouldn't your workout? The fact is, there's a faster, more effective way to build muscle than traditional body-part training. We took off our lab coats to create--especially for you--a 21st-century training plan. This way, you'll be up to date in the gym, even if you drive a Datsun to get there.

FAULTY GROUNDS
The foundation of body-part training is shaky because of one simple and often ignored scientific fact: You can't isolate muscles. Whether you're doing a bench press for your chest or an arm curl for your biceps, there are always other muscles at work. These muscles either assist the "target" muscle or contract to stabilize your joints as you perform the exercise.

So when you prepare to lift a weight, your brain sends a nerve impulse to all the muscles needed to initiate the movement, causing them to fire as a single unit. The bottom line: Your brain recognizes movement patterns, not individual muscles, so that's the way you should organize your training sessions. Yet few lifters or trainers think in those terms, and that's a problem, because most body-part routines don't allow for balanced workouts, ideal recovery, or efficient training. For example, here's a common workout plan: chest on Monday, back on Tuesday, legs on Wednesday, shoulders on Thursday, and arms on Friday. Now here's why it's flawed:

The muscles of the lower body, the quadriceps, hamstrings, and calves, are worked on the same day, yet the chest, back, shoulders, and arms are trained separately. There's nothing wrong with training your legs once a week, but devoting an additional four days to your upper body is poor logic.

Having a dedicated "arm" day is overkill. When you train your chest, back, and shoulders, the smaller assisting muscles--the triceps and biceps--fatigue faster than the larger target muscles. So by doing compound moves, such as bench presses, shoulder presses, chinups, and rows, you're working your arm muscles maximally, even if you never do a biceps curl or a triceps extension.

The arm workout is performed the day after the shoulder workout, even though shoulder presses engage the triceps fully. This results in inad- equate recovery time for growth.

Since you're only working one body part per workout, you have to perform straight sets, resting between each. That means there's limited opportunity to speed your workout with supersets or alternating sets.

MOVEMENTS FOR MUSCLE
You can solve all the above problems by choosing your exercises from the six major movement patterns on the next page. And by taking our recommendations that follow, you'll work all your muscles intensely while allowing plenty of recovery time for them to grow.

EXERCISE GROUPINGS
1. Horizontal Pushes: Upper-body exercises in which you move the weight away from your torso horizontally. (Imagine your torso is upright.) Exercises: Any bench press or chest fly; dips

2. Horizontal Pulls: Upper-body exercises that require you to move the weight toward your torso horizontally
Exercises: Any bent-over or seated row; dumbbell or machine reverse flys

3. Vertical Pushes: Upper-body exercises in which you move the weight vertically in relation to your torso
Exercises: Any type of shoulder press; lateral or front raise; upright row

4. Vertical Pulls: Upper-body exercises that require you to move the weight in a downward direction in relation to your upright torso
Exercises: Any pullup, pulldown, or pullover

5. Quad-dominants: Exercises in which your quadriceps are the primary mover
Exercises: Any squat, lunge, or leg extension

6. Hip-dominants: Exercises in which your hamstrings and glutes are the primary movers
Exercises: Any type of deadlift or leg curl

BUILD A BETTER WORKOUT
Now that you understand how to group your exercises by movement patterns instead of body parts, the rest is easy. Simply use the guidelines below to structure your workout.

Practice organized lifting. To create an effective training split, divide your workout into two upper-body sessions and two lower-body sessions per week. For example, you might work your upper body on Monday and Thursday, and your lower body on Tuesday and Friday. In your first upper-body session, perform only horizontal-push and horizontal-pull movements; in the second upper-body session, do only vertical-push and vertical-pull movements. For your lower body, use quad-dominant exercises in your first workout and hip-dominant exercises in your second workout. This technique provides an ample amount of work for all your muscles while allowing more recovery time than body-part training.

Match sets. Do an equal number of sets for each movement pattern. As a general guideline, shoot for 6-12 sets for each movement pattern, performing the low end of the recommendation if you're a beginner and the high end if you've been lifting more than a year. Doing the same amount of work for each movement pattern helps eliminate weak links, the common cause of muscle-size and strength plateaus. Note that you'll only be doing one movement pattern on lower-body days, so you'll do fewer total sets (6-12) than on your upper-body days (12-24). That's acceptable because lower-body exercises such as squats are more physically demanding than upper-body movements.

Master energy efficiency. For a time-saving workout that doesn't sacrifice muscle gains, use an alternating-set technique during your upper-body workouts. That is, alternate between sets of opposite-movement patterns, resting 30 seconds between each set. For instance, alternate between sets of bench presses (horizontal push) and bent-over rows (horizontal pull), resting 30 seconds between each set until you've completed the planned number of sets for each. While your horizontal-pushing muscles work, your horizontal-pulling muscles rest, and vice versa. So your muscles are actually resting for 90-120 seconds before repeating a movement, since each set takes at least 30-60 seconds to perform. This cuts your workout time in half while allowing you to train both movements--and all the muscles involved--intensely.

THE FINAL DETAILS
You've probably noticed there is no direct arm work in this system. If you feel it's necessary, divide your arm exercises into elbow flexion, such as curls, where you bend your elbows to lift the weight, and elbow extension, such as lying triceps extensions, which require you to straighten your arms to lift the weight. Perform elbow-flexion exercises on the same day you do horizontal-push movements, and do elbow-extension exercises on the same day you perform vertical-pull movements. You can also perform calf exercises for your lower legs on either your quad-dominant or hip-dominant day. For all of these, do the detail exercises at the end of your workout. You won't need to work any of these movements much, though: 2-4 sets are plenty.

 

Well, if body-part training was old-fashioned when this was written, it's even more old-fashioned now! I found this article way back in 2004, and tucked it away for future reference, only rediscovering it the other day.

So, with the benefit of nearly 10 years of hindsight, what do you reckon? The author's "modern" training plan doesn't seem to have caught on at any gym I've been in.

EDIT: Although I suppose some crossfit workouts have aspects of this...

[DCYPL]

Im in no way a pro at any of this. I simply note who looks awesome, who looks like they are concentrating on form and not cheating...and copy them

But this sounds legit.

I find it really hard to change, my habbits are hard to break so adapting to something like this would be hard for me.

UNLESS!! Some of your pros could back it up, or have done it and it works.