Testostereone Plasma Levels Between Injections

[cruxis]

First Cycle so far.

4 1/2 Weeks into Test Ethanate 2x250mg Fri, Mon Injections. Letro,Adex For Estro Management.

Things are going excellent with weekly bloods testing. Anyways I am feeling great now and no bad sides, I am just adjusting my AI dose as I get blood results in and enjoying it untill end of cycle.

Anyways my question is it normal for testosterone levels to fall back within Ref Range again?

I Assumed that my blood concentrations would have built up and the levels would never drop back into ref range untill the end of cycle.

Heres how Testesterone levels went week to week so far

Testostereone (nmol/L) Ref(8.0-38)

Week 1 Baseline

14.6

Week 2

45.4

Week 3

51

Week 4

36.7

Week 2 and Week 3 bloods were taken about 24 hours after injection.

Week 4 bloods was taken 30mins after (Mon)injection, I was estimating the previous Fridays injection would have kept it over 45nmol/L.

Is it possible as last injections has less Test E in it. As I am getting to the bottom of the vial now. :pfft: Or has my body adjusted and has metabolized it differently/faster.

[severe]

Mate, that is a solid testing protocol you are going through. kudos, hard!

Were there any changes in timeframes between pinning, relating to the definite drop in the last test? And testing so close to it would've meant you had hardly any fresh dosing present.

And the test would've been fairly even throughout the oil. No real settling, as it is in solution.

Still, impressive regular testing.

[Daz69]

After 4 1/2 weeks the accumulated half-lives should have reached maximum blood plasma concentrations.... Your blood test shouldn't show your levels decreasing significantly (you should be off the chart now 56>) IE: over 56, my Path-Lab doesn't measure higher than 56>, so you should be showing 56> but you will in reality be actually higher....... Not 36.7..????

I could of course be wrong (Riccardo, HELP).... But that is how my Path-Lab explained it to me.....

I was on 500mg/week of Test-E, same as you, at a similar duration into my cycle.. and showed 56>....... (higher than 56>).....

The enanthate ester should release into the blood at the same rate throughout your cycle, other hormones may play catch-up, but the release rate should stay the same for enanthate....

[I Declare War]

After 4 1/2 weeks the accumulated half-lives should have reached maximum blood plasma concentrations.... Your blood test shouldn't show your levels decreasing significantly (you should be off the chart now 56>) IE: over 56, my Path-Lab doesn't measure higher than 56>, so you should be showing 56> but you will in reality be actually higher....... Not 36.7..????

I could of course be wrong (Riccardo, HELP).... But that is how my Path-Lab explained it to me.....

I was on 500mg/week of Test-E, same as you, at a similar duration into my cycle.. and showed 56>....... (higher than 56>).....

The enanthate ester should release into the blood at the same rate throughout your cycle, other hormones may play catch-up, but the release rate should stay the same for enanthate....

You have sound reasoning Daz69. Something doesn't add up here.

[tii]

Are they measuring your free testosterone based at all on your SHBG?

IE: Testosterone/SHBG = Free Androgen index could be giving you a lower number as your SHBG has become more active during the course of your cycle.

[cruxis]

:shifty:

Are they measuring your free testosterone based at all on your SHBG?

IE: Testosterone/SHBG = Free Androgen index could be giving you a lower number as your SHBG has become more active during the course of your cycle.

The lab does not do shbg. SCL canterbury.

I believe it's serum testorone test.

[Chemo]

That's odd that at week.4 your test levels took a pretty big dive. Won't be because your at the end of your vial.

Summoning MNZ lol.

[tii]

:shifty:

Are they measuring your free testosterone based at all on your SHBG?

IE: Testosterone/SHBG = Free Androgen index could be giving you a lower number as your SHBG has become more active during the course of your cycle.

The lab does not do shbg. SCL canterbury.

I believe it's serum testorone test.

I'd wait for Muscle NZ but if it's not the above it could quite likely be your natural production stopping.

[musclenz]

Points raised by Daz & Chemo are valid. There are other factors that could be coming into play & without SHBG we cant fully access your situation. Things like exercise, sex, other drugs etc can effect a reading. The labs in CHC do do SHBG LH & Total Test but you need to order those thru yr doc. Its possible thast the lab could have even got a false reading. You are starting to stretch their testing at the top levels I would expect.

BBers are not so interested in Total Test but more so the amount of Free Testosterone that is in the blood. This is reliant on circulating SHBG (the baddie) & Albumin. So your levels at 36.7nmol/L could still be driving more FT & bio available Test. However, it is normally over 50 nmol/L at week 4.

I would suggest you carry on your training & dosing program. Gauge the results by how you feel, strength, recovery, body re-composition & sexual function & test again in 2-3 weeks. Don't let this head f*ck you Bro. Even at a meagre 36.7 nmol/L you have more than 5 times what most guys will be producing naturally.

[Android]

does it say "shake vial before use" on the label? :^o

[cruxis]

Points raised by Daz & Chemo are valid. There are other factors that could be coming into play & without SHBG we cant fully access your situation. Things like exercise, sex, other drugs etc can effect a reading. The labs in CHC do do SHBG LH & Total Test but you need to order those thru yr doc. Its possible thast the lab could have even got a false reading. You are starting to stretch their testing at the top levels I would expect.

BBers are not so interested in Total Test but more so the amount of Free Testosterone that is in the blood. This is reliant on circulating SHBG (the baddie) & Albumin. So your levels at 36.7nmol/L could still be driving more FT & bio available Test. However, it is normally over 50 nmol/L at week 4.

I would suggest you carry on your training & dosing program. Gauge the results by how you feel, strength, recovery, body re-composition & sexual function & test again in 2-3 weeks. Don't let this head f*ck you Bro. Even at a meagre 36.7 nmol/L you have more than 5 times what most guys will be producing naturally.

Thanks, I can SBHG done it just meant having to Canterbury Hospital Lab just for that particualar test.

Lookin at my log book. I think I know the reason. But cant 100% confirm it untill next test.

Anyways its kinda embarassing now. And a Noob mistake by me.

Basically I took herbal Vitex for 5 days during that week. :oops:

I think I can confirm Vitex reported "anti androgen properties" :oops:

Why did I take vitex?

I wanted drop prolactin a touch.

I am gonna stick to Test E and Adex and stay out of those damn herbal shops!

[Chemo]

Shiiiiit, if that herbal thing drops total test that much...that would f*ck up a natty lol. Looking forward to the next test bro

[cruxis]

Some state it acts to balance hormones on kind of a "as needed" basis.

"Chaste Berry" for Hormone Balance

Vitex, commonly known as "Chaste-berry" because of it’s effect on hormones, has hormonal effects on both men and women.

Vitex inhibits the action of male androgens (sex hormones). The name "Chaste tree" came from it’s use by monks to decrease libido. Vitex effects prolactin, the hormone responsible for making breast milk in women (although men have prolactin hormone, too). In very small doses, (120mg), prolactin may be increased in men. In higher doses, prolactin is decreased in both men and women.

Hahah Yeh man I think I had brain fade at the time. "Chaste Berry" :doh:

My line of thinking was this berry aint gonna do jack to the Testosterone Levels while I am on cycle but may tweak prolactin a tad.

I was Wrong :naughty:

Anyways, Only took it for 5 days @ 400mg in that particular week.

Next Test results due 24/10/12. But going on how im feeling I am sure its all good.

[AZIDE]

.

[Daz69]

":3euvnq17]why are you fucking around worrying about prolactin when youre only using test? and using adex when you have a fucked shoulder...

Why are you bothering with Arimidex if you aren't showing estrogen related sides...???

Riccardo posted a study a while ago showing Arimidex only targeted E1 + E3 not E2 (Estradiol the bad estrogen).. Therefore is it pointless using Adex..????

As AZIDE said why are you worrying about Prolactin, isn't that a product of Progesterone/Estrogen combo..? Aren't you more likely to get Progesterone related sides off Nandrolone (Deca)..????

[cruxis]

":1whwx1rc]why are you fucking around worrying about prolactin when youre only using test? and using adex when you have a fucked shoulder...

My shoulder aint too bad now, Its just Heavy DB overhead press annoys it. Barbell Press is fine. I can work around that. Using adex wont be a issue for my shoulder would it? as long is I dont over do it. Current 17b Oestradiol is 107pmol/L which is almost 3 times baseline. I much feel better and look much better now.

Why am I fucking around worrying about prolactin.

It was a mistake and I should not have, :oops: and lesson is learnt.

[Chemo]

":2dzmk7p7]why are you fucking around worrying about prolactin when youre only using test? and using adex when you have a fucked shoulder...

Why are you bothering with Arimidex if you aren't showing estrogen related sides...???

Riccardo posted a study a while ago showing Arimidex only targeted E1 + E3 not E2 (Estradiol the bad estrogen).. Therefore is it pointless using Adex..????

As AZIDE said why are you worrying about Prolactin, isn't that a product of Progesterone/Estrogen combo..? Aren't you more likely to get Progesterone related sides off Nandrolone (Deca)..????

What benefits would one get from adex then?

Less water retention? More test lest est?

Is it such a bad med to run just for enhancing a cycle?

[tomsammce]

Just because you dnt have gyno or whatever other side you all wanna dream up doesn't mean you dnt have high estrogen.

It's not a bad thing to run a very small amount of anti e during a cycle. It's the ppl who run lots that are idiots.

So u wait till u get gyno before u rush to ur source to buy him out of anti e lol then take shit loads, meanwhile your estrogen has been high for a while before ur little lump formed. Makes sense lol not.

[musclenz]

":1i7pjxen]why are you fucking around worrying about prolactin when youre only using test? and using adex when you have a fucked shoulder...

Why are you bothering with Arimidex if you aren't showing estrogen related sides...???

Riccardo posted a study a while ago showing Arimidex only targeted E1 + E3 not E2 (Estradiol the bad estrogen).. Therefore is it pointless using Adex..????

As AZIDE said why are you worrying about Prolactin, isn't that a product of Progesterone/Estrogen combo..? Aren't you more likely to get Progesterone related sides off Nandrolone (Deca)..????

I dont know what this study is but I can tell you that Arimidex (Anastrozole) DOES CONTROL E2 in men. The E1 & E3 component in men is insignifigant. Oestradiol is E2. The thing with Arimidex is that you have to be careful not to use too much or you can lower E2 too much & have ED & other joint issues. The sweet spot is different in everyone. between .25 - 1mg EOD seems to work for most men on cycle. I think it is becoming increasingly obvious by data that it is a good idea to control E as much as Test on cycle. Its something we all need to consider when using gear on a regular basis & it is not an expensive option.

Wiki :

Anastrozole has been tested for reducing estrogens, including estradiol, in men.[8] Excess estradiol in men can cause benign prostatic hyperplasia, gynecomastia, and symptoms of hypogonadism. It can also contribute to increased risk of stroke, heart attack, chronic inflammation, prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.[9] Some athletes and body builders will also use anastrozole as a part of their steroid cycle to reduce and prevent symptoms of excess estrogens; gynecomastia and water retention.[8] Study data suggests dosages of 0.5 mg to 1 mg a day reduce serum estradiol approx. 50% in men, which differs in postmenopausal women.[10]

[farrout]

Arimidex does decrease E2, as evidenced by blood test results I have had.

I am on TRT & currently take 0.5mg Arimidex every third day, otherwise I get itchy nips that look "stretched".

As musclenz stated, it is easy to sail past the sweet spot & end up with the same estrogen-related sides as when E2 was high. An indicator of it diving too low, is not having night & morning wood. If this occurs, stop taking Arimidex until it returns.

 

[AZIDE]

.

[farrout]

":3c0xndxl]

I am on TRT & currently take 0.5mg Arimidex every third day

were you prescribed adex or do you just get hold of it yourself?

Prescribed.

Regarding vitex, my endo will not prescribe HCG for shrunken nuts, so I take 1000mg every morning & that has brought them back to "normal".

There has to be positive influence on LH.

[cruxis]

Arimidex does decrease E2, as evidenced by blood test results I have had.

An indicator of it diving too low, is not having night & morning wood. If this occurs, stop taking Arimidex until it returns.

 

Thanks, getting a more rigid wood, compared to off cycle thats for sure.

[Daz69]

":e18xlvah]why are you fucking around worrying about prolactin when youre only using test? and using adex when you have a fucked shoulder...

Why are you bothering with Arimidex if you aren't showing estrogen related sides...???

Riccardo posted a study a while ago showing Arimidex only targeted E1 + E3 not E2 (Estradiol the bad estrogen).. Therefore is it pointless using Adex..????

As AZIDE said why are you worrying about Prolactin, isn't that a product of Progesterone/Estrogen combo..? Aren't you more likely to get Progesterone related sides off Nandrolone (Deca)..????

I dont know what this study is but I can tell you that Arimidex (Anastrozole) DOES CONTROL E2 in men. The E1 & E3 component in men is insignifigant. Oestradiol is E2. The thing with Arimidex is that you have to be careful not to use too much or you can lower E2 too much & have ED & other joint issues. The sweet spot is different in everyone. between .25 - 1mg EOD seems to work for most men on cycle. I think it is becoming increasingly obvious by data that it is a good idea to control E as much as Test on cycle. Its something we all need to consider when using gear on a regular basis & it is not an expensive option.

Wiki :

Anastrozole has been tested for reducing estrogens, including estradiol, in men.[8] Excess estradiol in men can cause benign prostatic hyperplasia, gynecomastia, and symptoms of hypogonadism. It can also contribute to increased risk of stroke, heart attack, chronic inflammation, prostate enlargement and prostate cancer.[9] Some athletes and body builders will also use anastrozole as a part of their steroid cycle to reduce and prevent symptoms of excess estrogens; gynecomastia and water retention.[8] Study data suggests dosages of 0.5 mg to 1 mg a day reduce serum estradiol approx. 50% in men, which differs in postmenopausal women.[10]

Can't find the link to the study just yet but this is his accompanying post:

Adex tends to reduce estrone (E1) as opposed to estradiol (E2), even at high doses >2mg estradiol will only be slightly suppressed. Estradiol (E2) can be considered the bad estrogen. Its what gives peripheral symptoms of estrogen build up like water retention, gyno etc. So if you are on a strong aromatizable cycle you could suggest the use of Aromasin to control estrogen.

Basically the conversion to estrone and estradiol is mediated by the same pathway but the substrate is different, testosterone is converted to estradiol where as estrone is converted from androstenedione. Using Adex only really effects the latter. However running proviron would probably be more ideal but depends on what else you are taking? more aromatizing compounds would be best suited to using Aromasin but bear in mind some aromatization is good for gains. Maybe don't stress too much about estrogen unless it is a particular issue for you (bp, water retention, gyno, etc.)

[tii]

3 studies backing arimidex suppressing E2

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7626450 1-10mg complete reduction

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10902781 .5-1mg 50% average reduction (noted a 18% drop in IGF)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8595172 1mg/day 80% reduction