Stay natural or enhance?

[Deez]

I have been training on and off for a very long time. 15 years. I've been involved in alot of sports in that time frame so training methods have changed due to the sport I was playing. I have always loved bodybuilding and the thought of jumping on a cycle has always been something in the back of my mind. Why? well simply because the gains have always been slow for me over the years. Very Frustrating. Now you could pin point that to other variables (diet, training methods) but I have always trained hard (my training partners could attest to that) diet wise, i am wise enough as expected after many years. Yeah ok I have a half decent physique but I have always wanted to be bigger, heavier and very lean. Pipe dream if I stay natural because naturally I am a thin guy, at 6'0 tall and currently 83kgs, 12% bodyfat. I would love to be 93kgs and 10% bodyfat or 100kgs even. That doesn't seem at all possible if I stay natty. Actually it sucks dog balls not being able to get near 90kgs and be very lean.

So, based on that, would it be worth while for me to jump on or stay natural and keep trying? thoughts?

[student]

just wondering how old are you?

[denzil]

I have been training on and off for a very long time. 15 years. I've been involved in alot of sports in that time frame so training methods have changed due to the sport I was playing. I have always loved bodybuilding and the thought of jumping on a cycle has always been something in the back of my mind. Why? well simply because the gains have always been slow for me over the years. Very Frustrating. Now you could pin point that to other variables (diet, training methods) but I have always trained hard (my training partners could attest to that) diet wise, i am wise enough as expected after many years. Yeah ok I have a half decent physique but I have always wanted to be bigger, heavier and very lean. Pipe dream if I stay natural because naturally I am a thin guy, at 6'0 tall and currently 83kgs, 12% bodyfat. I would love to be 93kgs and 10% bodyfat or 100kgs even. That doesn't seem at all possible if I stay natty. Actually it sucks dog balls not being able to get near 90kgs and be very lean.

So, based on that, would it be worth while for me to jump on or stay natural and keep trying? thoughts?

are you ready to sell your soul to the devil? :twisted: :evil:

[HarryB]

I have been training on and off for a very long time. 15 years. I've been involved in alot of sports in that time frame so training methods have changed due to the sport I was playing. I have always loved bodybuilding and the thought of jumping on a cycle has always been something in the back of my mind. Why? well simply because the gains have always been slow for me over the years. Very Frustrating. Now you could pin point that to other variables (diet, training methods) but I have always trained hard (my training partners could attest to that) diet wise, i am wise enough as expected after many years. Yeah ok I have a half decent physique but I have always wanted to be bigger, heavier and very lean. Pipe dream if I stay natural because naturally I am a thin guy, at 6'0 tall and currently 83kgs, 12% bodyfat. I would love to be 93kgs and 10% bodyfat or 100kgs even. That doesn't seem at all possible if I stay natty. Actually it sucks dog balls not being able to get near 90kgs and be very lean.

So, based on that, would it be worth while for me to jump on or stay natural and keep trying? thoughts?

This is a completely individual thing.... I guess asking this question is part of the research you are putting into it before you make a decision.

The way I see it there's no harm in jumping on a cycle... you might find the stopping at one a bit difficult though.

[Grover]

It sounds like it would be good for you, however how about finding a specialist BB PT who can give you a good program and diet (or see a nutritionist).

Try that for 12 weeks see what results you get, then re assess your first question.

Having said that, have done one cycle and can't wait to do it again!

[AZIDE]

.

[student]

":3obxbqt7]you are 6' tall and 83kgs...sounds like you dont know how to eat/train properly. im 6' tall too and was 85kg at similar bodyfat to you before i even lifted at all when i used to get wasted 3 nights a week. You should be able to get at least 90-95kg at 10% body-fat natty.

to answer your question though, do whatever you want. you will probably regret it either way

What you can achieve natty depends on your genetics bro - I thought this would be completely obvious seeing you were his size before you even started lifting?

[HarryB]

":3bes39ky]you are 6' tall and 83kgs...sounds like you dont know how to eat/train properly. im 6' tall too and was 85kg at similar bodyfat to you before i even lifted at all when i used to get wasted 3 nights a week. You should be able to get at least 90-95kg at 10% body-fat natty.

to answer your question though, do whatever you want. you will probably regret it either way

What you can achieve natty depends on your genetics bro - I thought this would be completely obvious seeing you were his size before you even started lifting?

and add to that the fact he's already been training 15 years...

[AZIDE]

.

[HarryB]

":1ikpfap5]"on and off for different sports". no idea what this means specifically, but its not like he's going to get big if his training is mostly running or whatever.

the idea that a 6' guy can only get to 83kg without gear is a bit of a joke though..if the OP's genetics really were this shit then wouldn't gear pretty much be a waste of time too?

LOL I have been trying to say that to years to all the skinny guys taking gear to be average sized...

I would actually tend to agree with you.. but maybe his natural bodyweight is something like 63 kilos so hes gained 20 already ..

[train hard]

you know the possible risks and rewards? then be a man and make a decision its your call

[Deez]

":138tp0ql]you are 6' tall and 83kgs...sounds like you dont know how to eat/train properly. im 6' tall too and was 85kg at similar bodyfat to you before i even lifted at all when i used to get wasted 3 nights a week. You should be able to get at least 90-95kg at 10% body-fat natty.

to answer your question though, do whatever you want. you will probably regret it either way

not sure I can take you seriously bro, no offence but a "body sculptor"? srs? ok.

I played league for many years and also basketball. Off season I would play touch so running has always been the backbone of my training. When I first started out, I was 75kgs and very lean in my teen years. I got into lifting because I was told I was too thin. I would eat like a horse to try and put on weight, very very hard for me to do. When I stopped playing competitive sports (mid twenties due to injury), i got more into bodybuilding. I have learnt alot over the years. I am 36 years old so I know a bit about dieting/training. It all varies person to person so comparing one guy to next is inaccurate. When it comes to hard gainers, I fall into this category. When you spend a large amount of time trying different methods, diets..you name it, it becomes frustrating as hell. I understand why some guys jump on.

I probably will go over to the dark side but for me, lifting is just what I do. Its a part of me and I'll lift until I no longer can.

[musclenz]

Ectomorphs never seem to eat enough calories. You could probably eat lots of carbs & it will not even show if yr training hard & doing physical work. You need to work out your maintenance calories & up a bit on that for a few weeks. However, there are still some exceptions in the Ecto breeds & it might be that your body would respond to a tad more testosterone

[severe]

[AZIDE] is more than his tag suggests. He is on target.

In saying that, your avatar looks decent. When you say you eat a lot, what ratio of that is protein? Eating for eatings sake is not the goal of weight training eating, after all. Eating to a plan is.

I wish you well with your use or not of aas. I could've trained longer, harder, and eaten better before doing aas, but in doing them I took advantage of the situation and did all the things i should've. I believe I am better now than before them. I am not massive, but that was never my intention. Fast recovery was. I needed to heal fast after exercise or the strain of fighting . The growth was a bonus.

[Phedder]

I played league for many years and also basketball. Off season I would play touch so running has always been the backbone of my training. When I first started out, I was 75kgs and very lean in my teen years. I got into lifting because I was told I was too thin. I would eat like a horse to try and put on weight, very very hard for me to do.

Seems you were moving like a horse too It sounds like you've always had quite a high energy expenditure, so although you might be eating plenty, you're still using all the energy, not allowing any excess for growth.

I know everyone is different, but I do find it hard to believe 83kgs at 10-12% is near your natural limit. Surely you're capable of reaching at least 90kgs. I started from a very similar point as you, and again I know we're different but I'm sure you can get above your current levels if you just eat more. What's a typical daily diet look like, or the daily macro-breakdown?

I'm not going to say whether to use or not, but I definitely think it'd be worthwhile giving at least 10-12 weeks of increasing your intake to see how you respond. Best case you gain a few KGs and realise how much you need to be eating, and if/when you do a cycle you'll be better prepared to make solid gains. Worst case you realise you truly are doomed and doing a cycle may be your only option

[ohjoshua]

do it,

If you have just been doing bb training since your mid twenties and your 36 now.

If you have a burning desire to get bigger.

I would go for it if I was you. You dont want to wait until your 46.

[tomsammce]

This is a simple yes/no scenario... The tip of the iceberg.

The real conundrum you will face is what brand to use...

Trololol

But lettuce bee cereal for a momento..

U can't ask ppl on a forum to make the decision for you, for god sakes tommorow you'll be asking weather to have peanut butter or jam on ur half piece of toast that you look like you would consume for breakfast..

Eat more and be lazy... Only come alive for 1 hour per day... then youll grow

[FellowshipOfTheRon]

hmmm....... 6'0, 83kilos.... started at 75kilos 20 yrs ago in teen days.

you surely have a lot of untapped natty potential left in you! let's be honest, even ectos make more gains than this (staying lean) naturally within 1~2 years pretty easily. don't wanna sound like a know-it-all dick but you probably haven't approached/monitored your diet as systematically as you have your workout routines.

not saying not to enhance at all, just go about it in the logical order because obviously enhanced guys also have to make sure they eat at least enough to make the most of their added recovery. maybe post in the diet section and get critiques in this avenue before taking it to the next stage?

[tomleegolf]

This is a simple yes/no scenario... The tip of the iceberg.

The real conundrum you will face is what brand to use...

Trololol

But lettuce bee cereal for a momento..

U can't ask ppl on a forum to make the decision for you, for god sakes tommorow you'll be asking weather to have peanut butter or jam on ur half piece of toast that you look like you would consume for breakfast..

Eat more and be lazy... Only come alive for 1 hour per day... then youll grow

Lolololol, peanut butter AND jam

[jimmybro1]

It's a personal decision, if your sitting on the fence and looking for convincing I would say that you're not ready or that you stay natural.

Just rethink your goals and ambitions for the future, cause once you start you can not take back that decision.

[crazyfacials]

stay natty 4 life imo

[ralf.hudson]

Being an ectomorph myself I can relate to being stuck at a certain weight, and have found that extra test in the form of TRT has allowed me to put on about 10kgs in a few months.

[jimmybro1]

If your having TRT doesn't that mean you had low testosterone levels before???

Also I don't think ecomorph dictates whether your a hard gainer or not, it more describes your bone structure. Ecomorph having narrow shoulders typically tall. Richard Gaspri could be considered an ecomorph.

[pumped1]

I went through a similar patch where I just was'nt happy with my gains and size.I have been training for years and wanted that to reflect in my physique just slightly.

What I did was go on a realy low dose of test e and a mild dbol kicker.I have had no side effects so far which is what I was aiming for.

Iam glad I did for a number of reasons.I have kept some good lean mass and retained good strength gains.You hear all sorts of bullshit criticism on some forums about low doses being no good and you should go higher if you are going to shut down etc but their seem to be an awful number of sheep out their that believe the standard 500mg per week or nothing bullshit and yet have never tried to see wether a lower dose will work just as well.

A lot of people are so scared as newbs that they fail to listen to their own common sense.

I am so glad I did a low dose cycle for peace of mind and common sense with no sides and I am going to do another in five months time.

I stayed on my low dose for 6 months to consolidate low dose gains.

If you want to dabble just do a real low dose cycle,youlgain both size and strength but most of all will have good piece of mind when you hear all the talk about sides etc.

[severe]

^ I started on 500 a week, and it works.

However, I ran it full time at 375mg/wk and that was a good maintenance dose. I am sure 250 is great also, as my mate Dave Jr attests to. He has not got massive gains in size, but his strength and recovery is outstanding.

Any dose above your base line natty is bound to do something, but at what noticeable effect? would 50mg a week be worth it?

So though I am open to ideas of differing doses being effective, how low is low? What was yours? (and dbol, even at a low dose, is bound to make up any difference in very low test)