Is Bodybuilding a Sport?

[ectomorph]

Hi there,

O.K just stick with me fellas on this one before ‘climbing in’

The question is “is body-building a sport?”

Emphasis here is on the word sport, definition being……

“an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, etc”.

For the record I’m not questioning for one moment the effort and dietary dedication that goes into Bodybuilding – but does that alone make it a sport?

I mean there is no physical ‘effort’ (for want of a better term) when the contestants are judged, right? There’s no bench-pressing, no dumbbell raises etc, just folk on a stage flexing.

Lack of physical effort in the competitive section, was part of the reasoning behind the International Olympic Committee rejected its B.B application to join the Olympic Games.

If there the on-stage the preparation and discipline involved with posing i.e skill , then posing must be a sport in its own right?

I also asked myself if there was there was any other sport which provided a similar scenario in terms of 'the test or prowess' having been completed prior to the day of competition?

If B.B is simply an aesthetics thing, then on that basis one could argue that Beauty Contests are also sporting competitions.

If perhaps it’s ‘my muscles are bigger than your muscles for my weight’ then a truly quantifiable test would be a competition similar to power lifters and strongmen.

I would say that body-building is more of a lifestyle than a sport.

I take nothing away from the effort and discipline and I do realize the varied public misconceptions – but if I’m truthful I have to say B.B is not a sport.

Heated debate expected.

[The Legend Killer]

I don't think it is a sport myself (sorry Joe Weider). In saying that I don't think bodybuilding needs to be classified as a sport for it to be taken seriously. I would say bodybuilding is closer to an art than a sport.

[geneticgod]

Emphasis here is on the word sport, definition being……

“an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, etc”.

I mean there is no physical ‘effort’ (for want of a better term) when the contestants are judged, right? There’s no bench-pressing, no dumbbell raises etc, just folk on a stage flexing.

In a competition you need to perform a routine to music, this can make or break your position in the higher ranks, eg. Jay Cutler was ahead in the Olympia 2001(i think it was that year) prejudging and then lost out in the night show.

Also isnt gymnastics essentially dance? Which our posing routine are.

Not meaning to diss you ectomorph but have you ever tried posing and getting your muscles to fill out and take the right shape and then hold the pose and all the muscles tense for some time. Its really hard!!!!

But i guess its all opinion really

[Andrew]

There is a huge amount of physical effort while your up on stage, try holding every muscle in your body as tense and as hard as you can for 8-10 seconds for 14 different poses, then do it 3-4 more times, there’s a lot more physical effort goes into that then goes into a lot of other sports

If perhaps it’s ‘my muscles are bigger than your muscles for my weight’ then a truly quantifiable test would be a competition similar to power lifters and strongmen.

Muscle size is not a pure indication of how strong someone is

[ectomorph]

Hmmm...I can only conclude from Geneticgods comments (below)

Not meaning to diss you ectomorph but have you ever tried posing and getting your muscles to fill out and take the right shape and then hold the pose and all the muscles tense for some time. Its really hard!!!!

that he agrees with the proposition it is the posing that is the skill, which taken to it’s logical conclusion makes posing a sport in its own right.

Or have I got that wrong?

PS; Without disparaging you of course Gymnastics is a bloody sport, it dates back to the original Greek games for starters!

[Pseudonym]

Good discussion, Ectomorph! I think you're correct in saying that posing (or at least, some posing) is a sport in its own right - it's just called gymnastics.

I also think that some branches of bodybuilding are more sport-like than others. For instance, the routines in a fitness competition are supposed to show a degree of athleticism, so they would certainly come under the sports definition. From the official NZFBB Guide Book...

A [Fitness] routine should include:

* Elements of STRENGTH – for example, straddle hold, leg extension hold, and/or one-arm pushups (gymnastic movements such as front and back flips, handsprings, and cartwheels are not considered strength elements). The number of strength moves, their degree of difficulty, and the overall creativity of the moves should be considered in the judging of the routine.

* Elements of FLEXIBILITY – for example, high kicks, side splits, and /or front splits. The number of flexibility moves, their degree of difficulty, and the overall creativity of the moves should be considered in the judging routine.

* The SPEED or tempo of the routine demonstrates a degree of cardiovascular fitness, stamina, and endurance. For example, if two routines contain the same type and number of strength and flexibility movements, the routine that is performed at a faster tempo is the more difficult to achieve so long as the movements are correctly performed.

I wonder what would happen if we made all bodybuilding routines more like the figure ones? It would certainly answer the "sport-or-not-a-sport" question. I think it might even increase general public appeal - or is that being too optimistic?

[poos_n_wees]

Interesting discussion.

I've never competed before, but just because a bodybuilding competition isn't what one typically thinks of for a competition (ie. general points system) doesn't make it any less a sport (and I urge anyone who thinks it's not physical to dehydrate themselves and pose under stage lights for 30 minutes)

You still train for it, you still diet for it, you're in the gym on a regular basis, there's in-season and off-season training and dieting, there's periodization of training, etc.

To me, the "competition" is as much about the preparation as it is the day you step on stage. And from my experience, the ppl that argue against it being a sport are usually those that have never done it before

[waldo]

This topic is discussed at length in a book called " Little Big Men: Bodybuilding Subculture and Gender Construction" by a sociologist called Alan Klein. I don't have it on hand but have read a number of times. He believes BB isn't a sport and puts a good arguement for it. Will post it when I get my hands on it.

[Kiwi]

Yep - I have Klein's book and checked out his commentary which goes into some of issues already raised.

He also writes" Bodybuilding can offer us an alternative to traditional athletic events by fusing physical development through training with artistic expression, eroticism and spectacle". (p.44)

....okay ....so who wants to touch on eroticism?

[waldo]

It's an interesting read alright. Touched on some pretty unspoken-of aspects of the whole game.

[MasterTel]

Very interesting question, Andrew! It is debateable whether bodybuilding is technically a sport or not, but surely it must be if compared with chess - which is not only referred to as a "sport" in this article below, but is now being subjected to drug-testing!! :? WHAT?! :?

Perhaps chess pieces weigh a lot more now than when I was on the school chess team 33 years ago?!

ASIAN GAMES: Chess players to face anti-doping measures

Tue Nov 28, 12:19 PM ET

DOHA (Reuters) - Chess’s world governing body will introduce dope testing at the Asian Games this week, although the sport’s top official in Doha said he had no idea how drugs could enhance chess performance.

“I would not know which drug could possibly help a chess player to improve his game,” competition manager Yousuf Ahmad Ali said.

“But, yes, there will be official monitors who may demand that players undergo a drugs test after the rounds.” ...........

[poos_n_wees]

[The Legend Killer]

I don't think having "sport-like elements" or how difficult something is to prepare for instantly makes it a sport. What is accepted as "sport" can be relative though according to individual opinions.

[ectomorph]

Yes, it's me again.

Let's take this back to its bare bones.

There are two guys having a philosophical discussion started by guy A who states “there is a god”.

Now guy B pipes up & says “there’s no god we are a freak occurrence in an unfathomable universe”.

Guy A then trots-out a number of events, the wonders and complexities of nature etc to back-up his ascertain of a greater being.

To which B states “this is not unequivocal evidence of anything”.

The point here is – it is up to A to provide evidence that god exists not up to B to disprove it.

If you think I am wrong in saying “bodybuilding is not a sport” you must provide evidence that proves your point.

Going to the gym, dieting, periodisation, dehydration etc are not evidence that leads me to think bodybuilding is a sport in the sense of the word.

Similarly an article which labels Chess a sport does nothing to substantiate a position that bodybuilding is a sport.

I fully understand B.B requires dedication, hard work, sacrifice etc etc but these elements even placed together does not necessarily make B.B a sport.

I also concede posing may be as it has some athletic merits but in saying that do you have to develop muscles to competition level to be able to pose?

The average top floor routine gymnast is 50 kilos dripping wet and they complete very athletic and intricate exercises on which they are judged by the way these are executed - not on their looks or physique.

A solely aesthetic competition would be to find ‘The Next Super Model’ etc.

My contention is still ‘lifestyle’ not ‘sport’.

[Andrew]

here is the textbook defininitonof sport.

[Middle English sporte, short for disporte, from Old French desport, pleasure, from desporter, to divert; see disport.]

noun

:Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.

:A particular form of this activity.

:An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

:An active pastime; recreation.

:Mockery; jest: He made sport of his own looks.

:An object of mockery, jest, or play: treated our interests as sport.

:A joking mood or attitude: She made the remark in sport.

:One known for the manner of one's acceptance of rules, especially of a game, or of a difficult situation: a poor sport.

:Informal One who accepts rules or difficult situations well.

:Informal A pleasant companion: was a real sport during the trip.

:Informal

:A person who lives a jolly, extravagant life.

:A gambler at sporting events.

:Biology An organism that shows a marked change from the normal type or parent stock, typically as a result of mutation.

:Maine See summercater

:Obsolete Amorous dalliance; lovemaking.

So going by that definition BB is a sport … it would also make sex a sport to :pfft:

[ectomorph]

Gidday there,

Regrettably we appear to be getting bogged down in semantics.

Everything we do as humans requires physical activity but that differs from athletic activity.

Picking your nose requires a modicum of physical exertion – but it is not a sport.

My logic is simple.

When I walk to my letter-box I am undertaking a physical activity, not engaging in sport.

Walking only becomes a sport when people engage in a competition against each other . Example being: let’s see who can walk the fastest.

In a long winded and combative fashion what I’m getting round to asking you all is - how does B.B become a sport in the publics perception?

“Who cares” you may say, becoming defensive..

Well unless B.B becomes a sport it will be marginalised and never grow.

Ask yourself what sort of profile does B.B have in the media and why is this?

To make B.B a sport will require a diametric change WITHIN the fraternity.

Cheers.

Paul

[poos_n_wees]

So based on your line of reasoning, a "sport" would be one where there's an objective way to determine a winner that isn't based on objective traits? So even though bodybuilding is physically demanding, we can't call it a sport because the outcome is based on a group of specialized people basing their decision on what they like at the time?

In that context, then NO, it isn't a sport.

Unless we were to start a grading system that was dependant on objective aspects such as:

Lowest bodyfat %: 10 points

Greatest strength while in condition: 5 points

Highest measurement per muscle group: 20 points etc

Then it could prolly be called a sport. But honestly, does it really matter? Is one sport better than the other? Does it lose some sort of inherent nobility from not being one? No.

The reason why BB's got such a bad rap with the media is 'cos they focus on sensationalism and 99% of journalists know jack when it comes to BB anyway. What changes do you think would need to be made within BB to make it a legitimate sport?

[Paul]

bodyBuilding will always be marginalised due the publics preception of the 'Sport' call it whatever, either way I love it.Most People think oh look another roided out muscle head how disgusting .unless your in the small majority of people who appreciate what it takes to get yourself on stage.The 'Sport' will never be accepted by mainstream people no matter how u change it.

[ectomorph]

Hi there,

I am attempting to play the devil’s advocate here and provoke discussion and a degree of navel gazing with-in the fraternity as to how to make B.B a sport in the popular sense of the word.

In doing so B.B gains acceptance & credibility.

If you don’t care about the publics acceptance and credibility and all the benefits that flows from this eg. sponsorship dollars, media attention etc etc.

By simply attacking my opinion in a defensive mode and making immature references to my sexuality (above) you are the proverbial ostrich placing its head in the ground

You are obviously happy with the status-quo and I respect your view.

But that won't change the reality of B.B in the scheme of things.

In reference to “what do journalists know about B.B”?.

What are you asking they report?

As far as I can see all any journalist can report is ‘x’ person won 1st place in their weight division (ages 30-40) and possibly an accompanying photo.

A Sports Reporter can’t exactly embellish the report with “a dashing run” or “scored from outside the box” etc like all they can report in other sports.

Journalists can’t get inside the judges heads or deduce the winning individual achieved the result due to [insert name of muscle group or groups]

Rather than accusing the media of misrepresentation, B.B has itself to blame for the public and media not understanding its nuances.

There-in lies the problem and this leads back to my original tenant.

I believe B.B needs to become a sport.

At present its not.

Paul

[Andrew]

OK here’s a simple analogy

Is “Death Metal” music? ..those who listen to it will say yes, those who don’t listen to it (the majority of people) will say no… because generally they don’t like it/don’t understand it.

BB is like Death Metal it’s way to odd for the general public to every understand and if they cant understand it it will never have public acceptance.

[ectomorph]

Hi there,

The analogy of bodybuilding and ‘death metal’ (above) is a great and I understand where you are coming from.

But no matter how much anyone dislikes ‘death metal’ no one can argue it’s not music.

I like 70’s punk music but I also own a sizeable collection of jazz and classical but never listen to the ‘top 20’.

Moving on, consider this, in the mid 90’s I completed two Auckland Ironman Triathlons.

When people found-out I was doing this, I got the usual “you’re mad”.

Irrespective of any initial reactions I got on saying “I’m doing Triathlon”, I achieved respect from everyone just finishing..

I believe its likely everyone understood the effort and training that went into getting to that finishing line, even those who knew nothing about the sport.

When I switched to B.B later that decade there was no such public acceptance.

No one cared that it was a harder discipline in terms of dedication than triathlon.

They just didn’t care, full stop.

You see people I meet could relate Triathlon in terms they understood.

The Ironman events always achieves T.V ratings far above the competitor numbers should warrant, despite participation numbers being on the same scale relatively as say as B.B in N.Z.

How do you change this and make B.B a sport which the general public can relate to and tune into?

[big MAC]

This thread is crack up. I wonder if my fellow Oly lifter on here is going to pipe in.

If you want an answer from me, I highly respect the dedication of Bodybuilders, the training that takes place, the difficulty of posing while absolutely tired. However, my answer would be that bodybuilding is more akin to a Male Beauty Pagaent than a sport.

[poos_n_wees]

In reference to “what do journalists know about B.B”?.

What are you asking they report?

I'm not asking them to report anything.

My point was that bodybuilding isn't usually in the mainstream media unless there's some scandal with a professional bodybuilder or something similarly negative.

It is getting better though -- I've seen some clips on TV of Jo Stewart winning nationals, and one of her clients who lost a whole heap of weight then competed in a show featured on 20/20 I think it was?

[Pseudonym]

You see people I meet could relate Triathlon in terms they understood.

The Ironman events always achieves T.V ratings far above the competitor numbers should warrant, despite participation numbers being on the same scale relatively as say as B.B in N.Z.

How do you change this and make B.B a sport which the general public can relate to and tune into?

I think the reason is simple: Triathlon looks like hard work. Bodybuilding competitions don't.

As I said before, I think introducing more athletic routines like the one's the Fitness class do would increase bodybuilding's wider appeal.

[Andrew]

As I said before, I think introducing more athletic routines like the one's the Fitness class do would increase bodybuilding's wider appeal.

Should I start practicing my cart wheels and back flips? :think: