Pullups VS pulldowns

[Terrymundo]

want me some fat fukn lats.

being a heavier (120kg+) gentleman i find difficult to do quality pullups(wide grip) over 5-6 reps and so send my back day under the lat pulldown machine where i can get my sweet spot of 10-15reps. I like that I can control weight easily and mind muscle is much easier achieved. i meet a few fellow peers that wouldn't dream of neglecting the tradional pull. Is it worth me stick with pullups till i get them dialed or should I keep going as with the lat pulldown machine? experiences? advices?

[HarryB]

want me some fat fukn lats.

being a heavier (120kg+) gentleman i find difficult to do quality pullups(wide grip) over 5-6 reps and so send my back day under the lat pulldown machine where i can get my sweet spot of 10-15reps. I like that I can control weight easily and mind muscle is much easier achieved. i meet a few fellow peers that wouldn't dream of neglecting the tradional pull. Is it worth me stick with pullups till i get them dialed or should I keep going as with the lat pulldown machine? experiences? advices?

I like to do both, I think your body positioning is different from one to the other and your muscle recruitment is different. I certainly feel them in different areas of my back. I find with pulldowns I can get a much better and more controlled contraction but chin ups just hit my mid range a whole lot more.

That's my 2c anyway.

[Terrymundo]

cheers harry, I find the muscle recruitment with pullups various throughout the set. First rep or two look consistant with my chest high but soon after the chest starts to drop as secondary muscles are needed complete the rep. you when start pullin go the top of the head instead of your chest. I'm a firm believer in every rep in every set should look exactly the same which is why i love my drops set. I never drop form for more reps.

An idea: pullups till I break form then superset with pulldowns. wrapping could waste time tho

[HarryB]

cheers harry, I find the muscle recruitment with pullups various throughout the set. First rep or two look consistant with my chest high but soon after the chest starts to drop as secondary muscles are needed complete the rep. you when start pullin go the top of the head instead of your chest. I'm a firm believer in every rep in every set should look exactly the same which is why i love my drops set. I never drop form for more reps.

An idea: pullups till I break form then superset with pulldowns. wrapping could waste time tho

Well first off accept that when you do chins they are going to mostly be mid range.. the contraction is hard to get when you start to fatigue. I do from dead hang to as high as possible but I accept that I won't be able to go as high as I fatigue. When doing pulldowns though I make sure I hit the fully contracted position.

It's harder for you heavier guys ....

[hhhh1]

i do both too. 4 sets of pullups at the start of my back workout then deads, then pulldowns for a few sets till my lats are fucked after i do deads. im only 98kg though so i can get out a decent number of pullups

[Meataxe]

I would rather do one single chin-up then 1000 pulldowns anyday of the week.

If you can do 5-6 chins, but still choose to start your back workout with latt pulldowns, it's pure laziness and an excuse to take the easy road.

[Deez]

Pullups are awesome right? if you see a dude do 20 pullups...wide, its impressive. Not a skinny dude though as doesn't count lol. Pullups like bench press can be treated like the measure to true strength. That there feeds into ego...lets be honest guys, it does. So you'll see many do them but how many actually feel it properly?...when you do a pullup, are you using your lats? can you feel your lats contract and stretch? sure biceps play a role here but if you don't feel jack in your lats. Do pulldowns until you can at least feel your lats working and mind/muscle connection is strong.

[HarryB]

Pullups are awesome right? if you see a dude do 20 pullups...wide, its impressive. Not a skinny dude though as doesn't count lol. Pullups like bench press can be treated like the measure to true strength. That there feeds into ego...lets be honest guys, it does. So you'll see many do them but how many actually feel it properly?...when you do a pullup, are you using your lats? can you feel your lats contract and stretch? sure biceps play a role here but if you don't feel jack in your lats. Do pulldowns until you can at least feel your lats working and mind/muscle connection is strong.

Everyone's idea of what constitutes good form on these is different and I guess the reasons are different too. I see a lot of kipping pull ups at the gym but I don't discount them because they're different from how I do them I just don't personally do them. I wouldn't say it's an ego builder either, more of an ego crusher. Only bloody exercise that get's harder as you grow.

[Meataxe]

Pullups are awesome right? if you see a dude do 20 pullups...wide, its impressive. Not a skinny dude though as doesn't count lol. Pullups like bench press can be treated like the measure to true strength. That there feeds into ego...lets be honest guys, it does. So you'll see many do them but how many actually feel it properly?...when you do a pullup, are you using your lats? can you feel your lats contract and stretch? sure biceps play a role here but if you don't feel jack in your lats. Do pulldowns until you can at least feel your lats working and mind/muscle connection is strong.

Bullshit, ....if you're doing chins and you can't feel jack, then keep doing them until you're strong enough so you can. Seriously, if you start your back workout(Not warmup) with latt pull downs of any kind, your workout is simply the beginnings of a pussy arse bitch of a session.

I don't even care if all can do is 1/2 a chin, do it, a bunch of times, do some negatives off a bench. The following week you'll get a full rep out, then 2 and so on. You want a back? A serious back? Then chin.

[AlBundy]

I've done pullups for years and advocate em for everyone but heres the thing for purely bodybuilding purposes some people really will find strict lat pulldowns really help to get the lats and general back contracting hard without using their arms too much, which can supplement their pullups by teaching them how to actually use their back muscles.

[Terrymundo]

Cheers guys, will start blending in the pullups into my back program. Not my favourite but i may come to love it. Im following your advice here meataxe, that better be you in your avatar. Credibilty is everything :pfft:

[Meataxe]

Cheers guys, will start blending in the pullups into my back program. Not my favourite but i may come to love it. Im following your advice here meataxe, that better be you in your avatar. Credibilty is everything :pfft:

Go to the facebook link below my post ....

[thatwaslight]

Always pull ups first but both have there merits, nothing fries my lats like close grip pull downs Fuaark. But I'd never do a back workout with out pull ups! Like axe says keep doing them until you can hit the rep range, nothing like weighted pull ups

[Hitro]

Pullups are awesome. I also start my back workout with a few sets before I hit the deadlifts and then come back later on for the lat pull downs.

You may struggle to pullups now but you'll get there. 18months ago I could only do 4 or 5 narrowgrip pullups and just a measly single widegrip pull up. Now I've actually got to a stage where I am adding weight for my wide grip pullups. Feels good!

Could always do weight assisted ones and slowly drop the weights right off?

[Shutupandsquat]

I always feel pull ups better if I do them when the blood is already in there. So in the middle, or at the end of the back workout. I can only get out 6-10 and I feel the stretch a whole lot more because I'm in a rhythm.

My back sucks, but it is improving, and I feel this is one of the reasons why it is.

[Terrymundo]

follow up:

Trained back last night:

Pullups:

4 sets max (7,6,5,5)

4 sets of pulldowns, wide grip (10-15reps)

3 sets of pulldowns, close grip (8-10reps)

3 sets of what ever you call it when stand up grab a straight bar narrowly from a cable machine from a high angle, and when you keep your arms straight and pull the bar down to your crotch to engage your lats. Yeah did like 15 reps of those.

then normal rowing exercises

Result:

[genetic freek]

Pullups are awesome right? if you see a dude do 20 pullups...wide, its impressive. Not a skinny dude though as doesn't count lol. Pullups like bench press can be treated like the measure to true strength. That there feeds into ego...lets be honest guys, it does. So you'll see many do them but how many actually feel it properly?...when you do a pullup, are you using your lats? can you feel your lats contract and stretch? sure biceps play a role here but if you don't feel jack in your lats. Do pulldowns until you can at least feel your lats working and mind/muscle connection is strong.

Bullshit, ....if you're doing chins and you can't feel jack, then keep doing them until you're strong enough so you can. Seriously, if you start your back workout(Not warmup) with latt pull downs of any kind, your workout is simply the beginnings of a pussy arse bitch of a session.

I don't even care if all can do is 1/2 a chin, do it, a bunch of times, do some negatives off a bench. The following week you'll get a full rep out, then 2 and so on. You want a back? A serious back? Then chin.

Is that not a lat pull down pic in your avatar?

If so, lol

[Shutupandsquat]

Pullups are awesome right? if you see a dude do 20 pullups...wide, its impressive. Not a skinny dude though as doesn't count lol. Pullups like bench press can be treated like the measure to true strength. That there feeds into ego...lets be honest guys, it does. So you'll see many do them but how many actually feel it properly?...when you do a pullup, are you using your lats? can you feel your lats contract and stretch? sure biceps play a role here but if you don't feel jack in your lats. Do pulldowns until you can at least feel your lats working and mind/muscle connection is strong.

Bullshit, ....if you're doing chins and you can't feel jack, then keep doing them until you're strong enough so you can. Seriously, if you start your back workout(Not warmup) with latt pull downs of any kind, your workout is simply the beginnings of a pussy arse bitch of a session.

I don't even care if all can do is 1/2 a chin, do it, a bunch of times, do some negatives off a bench. The following week you'll get a full rep out, then 2 and so on. You want a back? A serious back? Then chin.

Is that not a lat pull down pic in your avatar?

If so, lol

I thought it was a variated row. Well it looks like one with the position of the elbows.

[genetic freek]

Bullshit, ....if you're doing chins and you can't feel jack, then keep doing them until you're strong enough so you can. Seriously, if you start your back workout(Not warmup) with latt pull downs of any kind, your workout is simply the beginnings of a pussy arse bitch of a session.

I don't even care if all can do is 1/2 a chin, do it, a bunch of times, do some negatives off a bench. The following week you'll get a full rep out, then 2 and so on. You want a back? A serious back? Then chin.

Is that not a lat pull down pic in your avatar?

If so, lol

I thought it was a variated row. Well it looks like one with the position of the elbows.

Dunno, seems to be working though haa

[Meataxe]

Pullups are awesome right? if you see a dude do 20 pullups...wide, its impressive. Not a skinny dude though as doesn't count lol. Pullups like bench press can be treated like the measure to true strength. That there feeds into ego...lets be honest guys, it does. So you'll see many do them but how many actually feel it properly?...when you do a pullup, are you using your lats? can you feel your lats contract and stretch? sure biceps play a role here but if you don't feel jack in your lats. Do pulldowns until you can at least feel your lats working and mind/muscle connection is strong.

Bullshit, ....if you're doing chins and you can't feel jack, then keep doing them until you're strong enough so you can. Seriously, if you start your back workout(Not warmup) with latt pull downs of any kind, your workout is simply the beginnings of a pussy arse bitch of a session.

I don't even care if all can do is 1/2 a chin, do it, a bunch of times, do some negatives off a bench. The following week you'll get a full rep out, then 2 and so on. You want a back? A serious back? Then chin.

Is that not a lat pull down pic in your avatar?

If so, lol

Not sure what would be so funny. I've never said that Pulldowns are usless, only that if you START you're back workout with them you're a pussy arse bitch, that all:)

....ps, you try hanging from a chin-up bar for 20 min. while that take photos!! Smartarse!!:) LOL:)

[Shutupandsquat]

I start with pulldowns sometimes. But I guess pulling 20+ more than my bodyweight makes me a pussy arse bitch... ok.

Variation is good, and I find the contraction to pull downs is a total different contraction to pull ups (as I think Harry stated).

[Meataxe]

I start with pulldowns sometimes. But I guess pulling 20+ more than my bodyweight makes me a pussy arse bitch... ok.

Variation is good, and I find the contraction to pull downs is a total different contraction to pull ups (as I think Harry stated).

Well I find the contraction easier to preform and a lot different when I do leg extensions, compared to that of squats, but the squat is going to do a thousand times more. Or even to be more similar that of the smith squat to the free weight squat, and that's what you're trying to compare here.

You want a big back? Then Chin(Close grip and wide) and Deadlift. use the heavy compound exercises to go nuts on, making your body spit out huge amounts of natural growth hormone, testosterone etc., etc. Next up you've got bent over rows, dumbbell rows, t-bar rows etc., etc., etc. Last of all we have the cable and machine pulls, these, if done at all, should be done at the end of the workouts to squeeze out an extra few full contractions.

[Deez]

Pullups are awesome right? if you see a dude do 20 pullups...wide, its impressive. Not a skinny dude though as doesn't count lol. Pullups like bench press can be treated like the measure to true strength. That there feeds into ego...lets be honest guys, it does. So you'll see many do them but how many actually feel it properly?...when you do a pullup, are you using your lats? can you feel your lats contract and stretch? sure biceps play a role here but if you don't feel jack in your lats. Do pulldowns until you can at least feel your lats working and mind/muscle connection is strong.

Bullshit, ....if you're doing chins and you can't feel jack, then keep doing them until you're strong enough so you can. Seriously, if you start your back workout(Not warmup) with latt pull downs of any kind, your workout is simply the beginnings of a pussy arse bitch of a session.

I don't even care if all can do is 1/2 a chin, do it, a bunch of times, do some negatives off a bench. The following week you'll get a full rep out, then 2 and so on. You want a back? A serious back? Then chin.

look bro, as I said, this ain't about trying to be the strongest chin dude in your gym, who farking cares if you'er a pussy arse bitch doing pulldowns first. fark bro, I know a few dudes who do this and have awesome lat development. I also see many dudes chin with no lats. Mind muscle connection is one aspect that is hard to master. Since you're a competitive BBer, Victor Martinez built his back with chins since he was a kid but the reason why (as he says) was because he had established that mind/muscle connection early on. You always hear alot of information of technique, form etc etc..but you never do hear alot of people talk about mind muscle connection. Forgot to mention, I do chins.

[Meataxe]

I talk about and teach 'Mind And Muscle' connection more then anyone, as I've trained with the best in the world. But trying to compare pull downs with chins is like trying to compare leg extensions with squats. Simply put, you're going to get better results from one set of no connection heavy arse squats then 100 connection extensions!!

[Deez]

well then, why the bullsht comment bro? you would know more than anyone that there is no point lifting a weight (if you're a bber) and not actually feeling the muscle the exercise is meant for. That just doesn't make any sense nor any benefit unless you're a power lifter and you're only concern is to lift. I was never comparing a pulldown to a chin. My whole point was, get that connection established when you do chins. If you don't feel jack back there, switch to something else so you do. You can always go back to chins bro, doesn't make you a pussy arse bitch. It makes you smarter than the guy who continuously does chins without ever feeling his back work but heck, he's got some biceps on him lol.