The Basic protein rules

[Andrew]

This is the basic 101 protein intake guide line..I’m posting this for the newbies out there

Protein intake per day in grams should be your lean body mass in kgs x 3

i.e. 70kgs x 3 = 210grm of protein per day

This should be divided evenly (as possible) over 6 meals through the day

i.e. 7am(35grms) 10am(35grms) 12am(35grms) 3pm(35grms) 7pm(35grms) 10pm(35grms)

The protein should be good quality

i.e. Chicken breast, lean steak, fish, protein powder, egg white etc

Remember this is a guide line for beginners (and maybe a reminder for the more experienced) Keep things simple don’t make things any more complicated then they need to be

[geneticgod]

along with taking protein you need to have all your essential fatty acids otherwise the protein wont be absorbed into your muscles, adding some flax oil to your sahke after a workout is a good way to get these.

[BlueCollarLifter]

Sorry, this might be a bit off-topic or even a repost.. but I thought I'd let everyone know about this awesome offer:

Dymatize 10lb : $120

http://www.ebody.co.nz/showproduct.aspx?productid=151

[Dyceast]

Mean offer. Might have to get me some and stock it, for when my protein runs out

[Andrew]

Cool look’s like a good deal.. anyone know the protein % for this stuff?

[samoan_muscle]

along with taking protein you need to have all your essential fatty acids otherwise the protein wont be absorbed into your muscles, adding some flax oil to your sahke after a workout is a good way to get these.

hmmm.... bro I wouldn't be adding flax oil to the pwo shake/meal. You really should try and keep your fats as low as possible PWO -the meal after that is ok though.

[Dyceast]

Found that facts here..

http://www.dymatize.com/mivastore/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=DBE&Product_Code=P155&Category_Code=3P

[Andrew]

Thanks Dyceast

[Pittbull]

along with taking protein you need to have all your essential fatty acids otherwise the protein wont be absorbed into your muscles, adding some flax oil to your sahke after a workout is a good way to get these.

hmmm.... bro I wouldn't be adding flax oil to the pwo shake/meal. You really should try and keep your fats as low as possible PWO -the meal after that is ok though.

Totally agree

[VEUKISOP]

Gidday Guys,

Just started training and the nutrition sides of things, I have a Protein shake 3 times daily, is having it with warm water OK? and adding eggs and bananas aight????? Just experimenting, ,,,,,,,,,what are other things that i can add to make my shake tasty......????

cheers guys.

PETV

[BlueCollarLifter]

NO WARM WATER..especially if youre taking Optimum 100% whey

(the deal is still on!! 10lb of isolate --> $120)http://www.ebody.co.nz/showproduct.aspx?productid=151&categoryid=14

[Dyceast]

Protein in warm water :shifty: Damn I dont think I could handle that 1

[Flex]

(the deal is still on!! 10lb of isolate --> $120)

Dymatize ain't Isolate - it's an isolate and concentrate blend. It may have a big WHEY PROTEIN ISOLATE written on the front of the box, but that's just dodgy labelling.

[Paul]

SO What protein powder out there are just isolates and what benefit are they over blends

[Andrew]

Dymatize ain't Isolate - it's an isolate and concentrate blend. It may have a big WHEY PROTEIN ISOLATE written on the front of the box, but that's just dodgy labelling.

dodgy labelling or clever marketing?

Still a dam good deal

[Flex]

There's plenty of pure Isolates available - Max's Daytime & Hydroxyphase etc, Horleys ICE & Ripped, Balance Ion Exchange etc

The biggest benefit over the concentrates or the blends is that they are a higher % around 90% as opposed to 70-80% so you get more protein per 100g, plus they are absorbed faster which is good post workout. Absorption rates aren't quite so important throughout the day however so that benefit is not such a big deal if you have protein shakes for other meals.

One disadvantage with some Isolates is that they get denatured by the filtration methods used to purify them. This only applies to acid treated Ion Exchange whey Isolate as the acid damages some of the microfractions present in the whey. Microfiltered and Ultrafiltered Isolates are not acid treated and are undenatured so are pretty much the best whey protein you can get but cost a bomb.

Many guys aren't going to notice a huge difference between the results they get with the concentrates vs blends vs isolates due to either not training that seriously, not eating properly, or lifestyle choices i.e pissing it all against the wall on the weekend. In theory a good isolate should offer better results, however you have to pay quite a bit more for it and whether or not the extra cost is justified is hard to say.

The only real way to know is to give each a go for 6 months under the same training and dietary conditions and see what difference you notice. Not really too easy. Personally I used to find pure Isolates a little bit more effective than other protein, but one product that I found particularly good also had quite a lot of added Taurine and L-glutamine so that could have been what was making the difference.

[Flex]

dodgy labelling or clever marketing?

Still a dam good deal

It may be a good deal but if you were to purchase that product online from e-body and you hadn't used it before you might be a little f'd off to find that it was actually a blend. The site has absolutely no info about the product, other than a photo that makes it appear to be 10lbs of whey isolate. I'd imagine you'd have quite a good case for breaching the fair trading act and false advertising through the disputes tribunal if you so desired. You'd have to be pretty dumb not to research the product first however it is still misleading.

[BlueCollarLifter]

Yea sorry shoud've been more specific..its just that they have the normal elite range too, which from memory doesn't have isolate as the primary protein..

I bought one when they first opend up.. the ingredients list isolate and then concentrate..so yea it is miseading..but im still gonna buy one.

-good idea with the 3flavours in one.

[Pseudonym]

One disadvantage with some Isolates is that they get denatured by the filtration methods used to purify them.

Flex, what happens to a protein when it gets denatured, and what does that mean in terms of its effectiveness for a bodybuilder?

[Cammo]

What pisses me of is that they have a pic of the 10lb box of the chocolate flavour on the promotion page but they only have vanilla to sell.

I emailed them just to be sure.

It's only a small thing but I wasn't too happy about it.

[Small]

yea wats the difference between isolates and blends or wateva??

i jus brought 10lb of dynamitze-dnt go telling me it was a bad idea :pfft:

[Cammo]

Whey Protein Isolate and Whey Protein Concentrate

So What's The Big Difference Between Whey Protein Isolate and Concentrate?

Most of the whey protein powders you find will contain mostly whey protein concentrate with some whey protein isolate mixed in. You'll also find a lot of pure whey protein concentrate, and some whey protein isolate. Comparing the two, whey protein isolate is more expensive than concentrate - because it's of higher quality (more pure), and have a higher biological value (BV). Whey protein isolate contains more protein with less fat and lactose per serving. Usually, isolate contains 90-98% protein while whey concentrate contains 70-85%. 

Whey protein isolate is the highest yield of protein currently available, and it comes from milk. Because of its chemical properties, whey protein is the easiest to absorb into your muscles. Obviously, with its high concentration, whey protein isolate 'would' be the best to use, but like all great things, there's always a downside. It's more expensive, and just because it's more pure, doesn't mean it'll give you more muscle and size. Its extra concentration may not justify the extra costs for you.

Reference.

[waldo]

It's not a bad idea at all. The biggest difference between an isolate and concentrate is the amount of protein per 100gm. Follow these links to the supplement facts for an isolate, a blend, and a concentrate:

Horley's Ice Whey (Isolate)...90.2gm protein per 100gm

http://www.horleys.co.nz/ViewProduct.aspx?id=3

Dymatize Elite (Isolate/Concentrate blend)

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/dym/elite.html

(You'll have to work out the protein per 100gm by dividing the amount of protein per serve by the serving size, then multiply by 100)

23 / 29.4 x 100 =

78.2gm per 100gm

Pharmasports 100% Whey (Concentrate) 77gm protein per 100gm

http://www.pharmasports.co.nz/100%25%20Whey.htm

Of course the content is affected by what is added to the product, Glutamine, BCAAs, Vitamins etc.

[Flex]

Here's an article I wrote a while ago that covers pretty much all the basics as far as whey protein goes.

Whey Basics

Lets start out with the two major types of Whey Protein - Whey Protein Concentrate (WPC), and Whey Protein Isolate (WPI). Whey protein is a by-product of cheese and casein production. Pure whey contains a large amount of the milk sugar lactose, as well as a variety of proteins, fat and cholesterol. To remove the undesirable components and produce a more pure protein, different filtration techniques can be employed. The most common are ultrafiltration and microfiltration, all of which are low temperature methods and so avoid denaturing the protein.

Denaturing of protein, which occurs through the use of cheaper extraction methods using high temperatures and acid treatment, destroys the important protein fractions, lowering the biological activity or effectiveness of the protein. Denaturing can also occur after manufacture due to high temperatures. Never expose whey protein to high temperatures and direct sunlight for extended periods. Avoid leaving protein in a hot car, next to the oven in the kitchen or any other source of heat. Also avoid using whey protein in recipes that use high heat - muffins, pancakes etc, as this will denature the protein as well.

WPC and WPI

High quality WPC's are typically 70-90% protein, and are reasonably low in fat and lactose. WPI's however are typically greater than 85% protein, with some being upwards of 95% protein. The most common extraction methods used to produce WPI's are Ion-exchange (IE), Cross flow Microfiltration (CFM) and Ultrafiltration (UF). Because of the extra cost involved in the production of CFM and ultrafiltered whey isolate the majority of supplement companies use ion-exchange whey.

The Ion-exchanged (IE) process produces the most pure protein, gram for gram (around 95% protein), when compared to microfiltration and removes the protein through an ion-exchange column. This takes advantage of the specific electronic charges of the protein, fat and lactose contained in the whey and uses opposite charges to extract each individual component. Unfortunately this process uses chemical reagents to control the electrical charges. This can change the pH level and denature the whey by destroying some of the biologically active protein fractions.

Crossflow Microfiltered (CFM) Whey Isolate is produced by passing the whey protein concentrate through natural, nonchemical ceramic membranes to remove the fat and denatured protein and is typically around 91% protein. Since chemicals aren't used in this process, very little of the protein is denatured so the protein retains the important protein fractions.

Protein fractions

Protein fractions are the active components of whey that have their own unique effects on health and can help enhance immune function and improve recovery from training.

These include:

Beta-Lactoglobulin - This is present in the greatest amounts but unfortunately is considered an allergenic fraction in whey. Good whey proteins should be less than 50% Beta-lactoglobulin, however, the ion exchange process isolates this particular fraction easily and so Ionised WPI's will be quite high in this. To avoid any allergies from this, avoid whey proteins with higher than 70-80% of Beta-lactoglobulin. The higher the percentage of Beta-Lactoglobulin, the lower the percentages of the higher biological value fractions.

Alpha-Lactalbumin - This nutritious fraction is found in the second highest levels at around 15-20% and can also be found in mother's milk.

Immunoglobulins (IgG) - This fraction helps to stimulate the immune system with IgG's having important antibody activity within the body, helping support the immune system and preventing disease.

Bovine Serum Albumin (BSA) - This fraction is a precursor to glutathione. Glutathione is an essential water-soluble antioxidant in the body that protects cells and serves as a primary detoxifier of harmful compounds such as peroxides, heavy metals, carcinogens and many more. Betalactoglobulin and IgG fractions are also important sources of glutathione.

Glycomacropeptides (GMP) - GMP is a powerful stimulator of cholecystokinin, which plays many essential roles relating to gastrointestinal function, including the regulation of food intake. In addition to being a regulator of food intake, cholecystokinin (CCK) stimulates gall bladder contraction and bowel motility, regulates gastric emptying, and stimulates the release of enzymes from the pancreas. The pancreatic enzymes are critical for the complete digestion of fats, proteins and carbohydrates and therefore the full nutritional realization of food. Also, CCK has the effect of slowing the overall digestive process by slowing intestinal contractions, thus giving the digestive enzymes more time to work on their respective substrates resulting in more complete absorption. In animals, a rise in cholecystokinin is followed by a large reduction in food intake, as by slowing digestion, one perceives the "full" feeling longer following a meal.

Lactoferrin (LF) - This is quite an important fraction for its immune enhancing effects. Lactoferrin (LF) is found in tiny amounts in the body, yet appears to be a first-line immune-system defence. LF is a powerful antioxidant and strongly inhibits iron-dependant free radical reactions by directly binding iron. This iron binding effect results in the inhibition of iron dependant bacteria growth, and can block the growth of many pathogenic bacteria and yeast. Its antimicrobial action may also improve antibiotics. In the digestive tract, LF may help by stimulating intestinal cell growth and enhancing the growth of "good" intestinal microflora.

Lactoperoxidase, Lysozyme, Growth Factors - These are very minor fractions yet are reported to be the most biologically active. Lactoperoxidase (LP) has a high antimicrobial activity, and inactivates or kills a wide spectrum of microorganisms. Lysozyme, present in only very small amounts in cow's milk, possesses antibacterial activity against a number of bacteria and works synergistically with lactoferrin against bacteria such as the Salmonella species. Lysozyme is found in saliva, tears, and other body fluids, where it acts as a natural antibiotic.

Growth Factors include IGF-1 and IGF-2. IGF-1, or Insulin-like Growth Factor, is the hormone released during growth hormone metabolism, the amount produced which determines the extent of growth in children and the building of muscle and lean body mass in adults. Studies have shown that IGF-1 rises in direct proportion to the quality and quantity of protein in the diet.

Hydrolysing (predigesting) whey to make di-, tri-, and oligo-peptides (short and long chain amino acids), increases the bioavailability (BV) of the whey, further increasing the release of IGF-1.

As you can see, the greatest differences between the two types of WPI lies in the immunological and digestive implications of the proteins, with IE WPI missing three significant protein fractions, Lactoferrin (LF), lactoperoxidase (LP) and Glycomacropeptides (GMP).

Hydrolysates and Peptides

Hydrolysates are essentially smaller proteins. These are produced by subjecting proteins to digestive enzymes, which breakdown the large protein molecule into many smaller proteins. These proteins can be broken down into peptides (chains of two amino's) or polypeptides (chains of three or more aminos), and are broken down until they are the right size for absorption.

This process occurs naturally during digestion but can take some time, up to several hours for whole foods. So it is possible to buy whey proteins with added peptides or "predigested" hydrolysates. Predigested hydrolysates are when the proteins are exposed to natural enzymes from plant or animal sources. Protein hydrolysates are of benefit as they more easily and more quickly absorbed.

These can be most beneficial after training when there is an increased need for amino acids. The aminos are required to prevent protein (muscle tissue) breakdown, so the faster they can be absorbed the better. Another factor effecting absorption rates is the molecular weight of the formula. The lower the molecular weight of the protein the faster the absorption. Whey proteins with added whey peptides will often state the weight in Daltons (D) of the protein: i.e. MW 500D (very low molecular weight), MW 80,000D (high molecular weight).

What to choose?

Choosing which protein to use depends on what you are looking for. Using Whey Isolates, Hydrolysed proteins and Whey proteins with added peptides will offer increased recovery when used straight after training due to their quick absorption. However during the course of the day when absorption rates aren't quite as important, the use of the more basic proteins such as whey concentrate, casein and whole food protein sources may be more economical.

Many of the whey proteins available today use a blend of two or more different wheys with some having added amino peptides. These are of benefit as they offer rapid absorption yet are more economical than some of the more pure whey protein isolates.

If a product lists Whey Protein Isolate but doesn't differentiate between Ion Exchange or Microfiltered/Ultrafiltered it is possible to guess what type it is by the mineral composition. The Ion-exchange process results in a high sodium level - approx 470mg/100g, low potassium - approx 80mg/100g, and low calcium - approx 80mg/100g. In contrast, Microfiltered and Ultrafiltered results in a lower sodium level - approx 220mg/100g, higher potassium - approx 590mg/100g, and higher calcium - approx 490mg/100g.

[BlueCollarLifter]

What pisses me of is that they have a pic of the 10lb box of the chocolate flavour on the promotion page but they only have vanilla to sell.

Yea true, I was hoping they would still have the neapolitan.

Oh and mixing warm water with protein - I heard somewhere that the way some protein powders are heat treated/processd that they dont allow to mix it with hot water. This is probably why Optimum strongly suggest you mix it with cold water..I could be wrong.

I remember, when i tried to make a hot drink..with protein powder and the thing just curdled :pale: