Gyno symptoms!?

[Addsomemass]

Hi all,

Basically I'm doing a cycle of t400 and deca half a mill of each on Monday and thursday.. So 1mill each week of each split into two shots pw..

I'm at the end of week 5 planning on 10 week cycle and one of my nipples has gone a bit puffy.. Cant notice it in the mirror but I can tell a difference when I look down at it..

I have some nolva now luckily but it's not itchy and its not to bad.. What should I do should I start the nolva or ride it out a bit longer?? Or stop cycle all together ?? I don't want to risk bitch tits and it's weird it's only one nipple slightly puffy will it go away on its own or should I take the nolva??

Any help would be appreciated guys

[Addsomemass]

Also there is no lump and no pain and I have low body fat.. My source tells me not to worry to much but I don't wan to risk it after all the horror stories is it worth stopping a cycle for the first sign of gyno?

[crazyfacials]

pics babe =P~

[Addsomemass]

I'm posting on my iPhone as my Msz don't know I'm "on" haha so I can't really post up on computer very easily can I post pic using a phone?? I'm new to the site so not sure how?

U can't really tell in the mirror and my gf hasn't noticed when I have my shirt off but I can definately tell its puffed up looking down on it..

[justhell]

If the puffy nipple is caused from using the deca you shouldnt use nolvadex.

:shock:

[Daz69]

Here's an article I have on gyno:

Here are the basic levels of gyno -

Level 1 – A dime sized glandular lump – which can emerge as soon as 2-3 weeks after “gyno symptoms” appear. This type of gyno can transform into a more serious level 2 gyno if left untreated for more than 4-6 weeks. In most cases, this initial level 1 gyno disappears once the hormonal environment improves, which is generally 2-3 weeks after the inflicting steroids clear the system.

Level 2 – A quarter sized glandular lump. This type of gyno does not completely disappear on its own, but may gradually shrink to “Level 1″ size after discontinuing the inflicting steroids. Completely reversing level 2 gyno requires aggressive dietary and supplemental intervention in conjunction with prescription grade drugs.

Generally, the levels of gyno can be referred to in the following way -

level 1 = temporary

level 2 = semi-permanent

Be warned, if gyno is allowed to grow large enough, the cost of surgery may be more cost efficient than trying to battle the gyno through drug and lifestyle changes – which could otherwise take months or years of intervention.

Following the 16 points below will help you prevent and reverse level 1 & 2 gyno –

The 16 Points

Consider all the following points. Remember, there are many factors that can contribute to gyno and performing just a handful of the points below may be the key to avoiding gyno all together.

1. Your naturally occurring 5a-reduced metabolites are your friends in preventing and reversing gyno. 5a-reduced metabolites include androsterone, androstanedione, androstanediol and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) as the most powerful 5a-reduced hormone. These hormones help prevent gyno by lowering estrogen and blocking the effect of estrogen at the hormone receptor. (1-8) Unless you have serious androgen related hair loss you want to keep your 5a-reduced metabolites relatively high to avoid gyno.

Methods for increasing 5a-reduced metabolites (DHT) are listed in preferred order -

• Topical testosterone applied to the scrotum will rapidly increase DHT levels with minimal estrogen conversion. (for more information on topical steroids, read this article)

• Use a DHT pro-hormone such as androsterone, found in AndroHard. This will raise DHT with zero risk of estrogen conversion.

• Injectable testosterone along with an AI to prevent excessive estrogen conversion.

• High dose oral 4-DHEA or DHEA along with an AI to prevent excessive estrogen conversion.

2. If you are concerned about gyno, avoid finesteride at all costs. It lowers all 5a-reduced metabolites to undesirable levels and has an extremely long half-life which continues to suppress DHT levels long after discontinuing the drug. (9) Progesterone would be a better anti-DHT alternative if you are concerned with hair loss. Plus, progesterone can clear the system within 24hrs making a mistake in dosing much less risky.

3. Almost all sources of gyno can be linked back to having insufficient levels of 5a-reduced metabolites in the body. In theory, any amount of estrogen/progesterone can be blocked by sufficient DHT. (10-14) Also, high DHT and enlargement of the prostate is a myth, however high estrogen and high DHT can lead to an inflamed prostate, so you want to at least make an effort to keep estrogen in a normal range. (14)

4. Trenbolone, TREN, Nandrolone can cause gyno because they lack a potent 5a-reduced metabolite (dihydronandrolone is weaker than dihydrotestosterone). (15) If you are worried about gyno from progestational steroids you should consider boosting your 5a-reduced metabolites during the cycle (mentioned above). This can avoid most if not all of the gyno problems associated with progestational hormones. I should mention here that aromatase inhibitors alone (AI’s) will not help prevent gyno from progestational compounds. It is the antagonistic action of 5a-reduced hormones that is required.

5. Nothing is going to antagonize estrogen at the estrogen receptor (ER) better than actual DHT. While DHT derivatives or analogs such as Anavar, Winstrol, Masteron, Epistane, Superdrone, ect may be 5a-reduced, they cannot convert to actual DHT and thus cannot directly inhibit gyno at the receptor level (since they lack the ultra-high binding affinity for the AR that true DHT possesses). (16)

6. Natural anti-estrogens (resveratrol, chrysin, I3C, DIM, ect) are great for PCT and can stimulate the HPTA and manage healthy estrogen metabolism, but they are not strong enough to prevent aromatization from high doses of aromatizing steroids. Don’t rely on these to prevent gyno during a cycle.

7. Reducing prolactin will reduce the overall stimulation on mammary growth. Suppressing prolactin is useful as a temporary method to help slow or stop gyno growth. However, continuing anti-prolactin treatment is not recommended to be continued beyond 8 weeks. Methods of suppressing prolactin include -

• Vitex at 460mg/day

• Vitamin B6 at 200-400mg/day

• Mucuna Pruriens (15%-20% L-Dopa) 4-6g/day

• Increasing DHT may also lower prolactin release (17)

8. Don’t fiddle with your nipples. This increases prolactin release which can make gyno worse.

9. IGF-1, GH, insulin and prolactin are all potent growth factors in gyno growth. Limiting these hormones will reduce the likelihood of experiencing gyno symptoms. “Bulking” (aka., eating-a-shitload-of-everything) will increase most of the growth factors listed above. Cutting calories (especially carbohydrates) will suppress insulin and IGF-1 therefore reducing the overall stimulatory effect on mammary growth. Ketogenic diet = less risk of gyno.

10. Body fat (adipose tissue) is the main site for androgens to convert to estrogens. Therefore, being overweight or having high body fat increases your gyno risk. This is another good reason to go on a cutting cycle if you are gyno prone. Reducing body fat will lower your rate of estrogen conversion from aromatizing steroids. (18)

11. Caffeine consumption can inhibit clearance of estrogen from the liver by competing for the P-450 oxidase system. Avoid caffeine if you are concerned about high estrogen levels.

12. Avoid supplements containing forskolin if concerned about gyno. Forskolin increases aromatase activity via cAMP modulation and can increase formation of estrogen. (23,24)

13. Increasing fiber intake (both soluble and insoluble) can enhance clearance of estrogens from the intestines. Research shows that increasing fiber intake in humans can reduce estrogen levels by up to 22%. (19)

14. Reducing estrogen below the normal range (such as over dosing arimidex, letrozol, aromasin or formestane) can eventually reduce SHBG levels, thus allowing more estrogen to freely circulate (by offsetting it from SHBG). Higher levels of freely circulating estrogen can amplify breast tissue growth (20). SHBG also appears to have anti-estrogenic effects at the cell receptor level. (21, 22) Avoiding over suppression of SHBG will reduce your gyno risk.

15. Don’t be afraid to lower the dose mid cycle. People have a tendency to panic at the first sign of gyno and drop everything. Generally, just lowering the dose of the afflicting steroid can offer gyno relief within 4-5 days.

16. Save SERM’s as your last resort against gyno. You do not need a SERM (tormifene, clomid or nolva) to avoid gyno from a properly planned cycle. If you are still having gyno problems after following the above points, consider the fact that you have a poorly planned cycle and you need to revaluate the compounds you have chosen.

[Addsomemass]

Thanks for the posts helps allot just read up that one so hoping the puffiness goes

How would you tell if it's from the deca or test, could I still get it while only having 1 mil deca pw??

I've heard from deca you can get liquid coming out nipple? I havnt had

Any yet just puffiness and only on left nipple..

[musclenz]

^^^^ Dosn't Eric Guru Potratz own Primordial Performance who makes Androhard??? His approach to increasing 5a-reduced metabolites like DHT is an interesting theory but one that has been used by AAS users for some time by incorporating DHT derivatives like Winstrol, Proviron, Masteron etc into a stack especially when 19 Nors like Tren & Deca are involved but still does not get away with using an AI like Arimidex or Letro to control estrogen.

[Daz69]

I wasn't aware Eric Potratz was resposible for Androhard.... :oops:

Interesting one of his recommended methods for Prolactin control was:

• Mucuna Pruriens (15%-20% L-Dopa) 4-6g/day

L-Dopa being the precurser for Dopamine. One of the Doperminergic pathways of the CNS: The tuberoinfundibular system, extends from the hypothalamus to the Pituitary gland, which is involved in Prolactin and Growth hormone secretion, and regulation of lactation...

Balanced Dopamin levels might work to reduce Prolactin by incorporating sufficient levels of L-Tyrosine and L-Phenylalanine in the diet.

Although drugs that decrease Prolactin like Bromo & Caber are Dopamine agonists, so just keeping sufficient levels of precurser amino acids might not be enough, over consuming to increase Dopamine levels won't work because the Dopamine neurotransmitter is under homeostatic control, whereby the feedback mechanism modulates the rate of Tyrosine hyroxylation, stopping further conversion from L-tyrosine....

But since L-Dopa is the direct precurser to Dopamine, and beyond tyrosine hydroxylation, suplimentation with L-Dopa could work.............

[crazyfacials]

Thanks for the posts helps allot just read up that one so hoping the puffiness goes

How would you tell if it's from the deca or test, could I still get it while only having 1 mil deca pw??

I've heard from deca you can get liquid coming out nipple? I havnt had

Any yet just puffiness and only on left nipple..

that's like saying I ate lots of food the day before and woke up today with the runs...what exactly caused it...

you could be unlucky and get gyno from little test (if you did get gyno) or deca..it's not like one of them will do a different thing to your nips than the other lol

[musclenz]

I wasn't aware Eric Potratz was resposible for Androhard.... :oops:

Interesting one of his recommended methods for Prolactin control was:

• Mucuna Pruriens (15%-20% L-Dopa) 4-6g/day

L-Dopa being the precurser for Dopamine. One of the Doperminergic pathways of the CNS: The tuberoinfundibular system, extends from the hypothalamus to the Pituitary gland, which is involved in Prolactin and Growth hormone secretion, and regulation of lactation...

Balanced Dopamin levels might work to reduce Prolactin by incorporating sufficient levels of L-Tyrosine and L-Phenylalanine in the diet.

For those that don't know, Daz69 is currently in the sick bay & has too much time on his hands :pfft:

[Daz69]

For those that don't know, Daz69 is currently in the sick bay & has too much time on his hands :pfft:

Yep..!! Spastic cripple in leg-callipers complete with zimmer-frame.....@ 8.1% body fat....

[Grover]

:shock:

As a result of ..............?

[bignodz]

Im not a frequent user but tried a cycle of anadrol about 18 months ago and now have a lump under my right nipple any suggestions to what could get rid of it, its annoying

[justhell]

Im not a frequent user but tried a cycle of anadrol about 18 months ago and now have a lump under my right nipple any suggestions to what could get rid of it, its annoying

Letro

[bignodz]

Im not a frequent user but tried a cycle of anadrol about 18 months ago and now have a lump under my right nipple any suggestions to what could get rid of it, its annoying

Letro

Thanks, do you know if its available on prescription

[musclenz]

For those that don't know, Daz69 is currently in the sick bay & has too much time on his hands :pfft:

Yep..!! Spastic cripple in leg-callipers complete with zimmer-frame.....

Nice home gym Daz :pfft:

[justhell]

Im not a frequent user but tried a cycle of anadrol about 18 months ago and now have a lump under my right nipple any suggestions to what could get rid of it, its annoying

Letro

Thanks, do you know if its available on prescription

Just use google,theres lots of information about Letrozole,

Its another brest cancer drug,so id guess you could get it on prescription,

if you have breast cancer?

8)

[bignodz]

Letro

Thanks, do you know if its available on prescription

Just use google,theres lots of information about Letrozole,

Its another brest cancer drug,so id guess you could get it on prescription,

if you have breast cancer?

8)

ok sweet, will see if i can find someone decent to get it from, any ideas on cycles etc

[Daz69]

Thanks, do you know if its available on prescription

Just use google,theres lots of information about Letrozole,

Its another brest cancer drug,so id guess you could get it on prescription,

if you have breast cancer?

8)

ok sweet, will see if i can find someone decent to get it from, any ideas on cycles etc

From what info I have on Letro: Doses range from 0.25mg-5mg/day depending on what you are trying to achieve, the key to effective Letro use in PCT or lump removal is to use nolva or arimidex after letro cycle to avoid rebound from estrogen inhibition IE: Estrogen/Test ratio goes out of whack and estrogen rebounds back in stronger amounts until the axis stabalises........

[bignodz]

Just use google,theres lots of information about Letrozole,

Its another brest cancer drug,so id guess you could get it on prescription,

if you have breast cancer?

8)

ok sweet, will see if i can find someone decent to get it from, any ideas on cycles etc

From what info I have on Letro: Doses range from 0.25mg-5mg/day depending on what you are trying to achieve, the key to effective Letro use in PCT or lump removal is to use nolva or arimidex after letro cycle to avoid rebound from estrogen inhibition IE: Estrogen/Test ratio goes out of whack and estrogen rebounds back in stronger amounts until the axis stabalises........

where the hell do you buy all this stuff knowing its legit, pretty dodgy looking sites to me. if anyone has any ideas pm me please