Cardio and First Cycle Gear.

[Stanley]

Read various infomration, some say its fine, others say its not fine, some say its best to run with Deca etc etc.

Anyone got info on Cardio related info on Winstrol; 10 KM runs, Cross Fit etc etc and what should I run with it (If needed).

Stan.

Also I read injectable 50 mg/ml, what would the be the recommended dosage for Oral (preferable over injectable if works out).

[Optimass]

what are you trying to accomplish with it? cut or grow?

[Stanley]

Cut as priority at this stage. I read that if you do cardio you still get some gains from it, but minimal obviously to other supplements".

[Stanley]

Bump. Anyone know whats the best way to go about for cutting and whilst doing extensive amounts of cardio.

[Chemo]

How much winny do you plan to use and are you only going to be doing cardio and cross fit? I doubt youd get any meaningful sorta weight gain with just winny, but youd do a good job preserving muscle and strength whist you cut and perform a lot of cardio exercise.

You can drink winny anyway so no issues with how you want to take it. \:D/

[Stanley]

Hey Chemo,

Yea only Cardio and Crossfit; Running and Swimming mostly over the Crossfit. I am not looking for gains, just rather cut some BF and maintain something that isn't too "hard on the joints/bloat" whilst taking it. I heard Win is not bad on joints and the bloat isn't rough, also don't need to take anything with it whilst cutting (50/50 from various sources on the net though).

Exactly what you said, preserve strength/muscle and just aim to lose fat. I heard that Win also would help support some recovery (I know it would be minimal to others) from lots of cardio with decent supplement; L-Glut etc

How much would you say for a oral dosage to have decent cuts; also 12 weeks would be the recommended?

[Stanley]

Another question... read tons of various info, what would be the bet for liver support supplement to take here (NZ). I am aware from a couple friends some supplement stores sell decent products to take whilst on Winny.

Cheers,

Stan.

[train_insane]

research clenbuterol

[Diab0lic]

If you're just looking to preserve muscle and cut fat why don't you just do a few hundred mgs of test a week?

[crazyfacials]

my boy dave has been doing both of the top suggestions and it been worked out fine for him

[Stanley]

research clenbuterol

Thanks Train, looks good. Shakes/Insomnia were the two effects you can expect, Shakes seem to occur fairly fast.

Not much info on it for Cardio though, hmmm. Anyone know some good sites, I do generic Google and look at BB and other places, but most are for guys getting muscle gains/bulk not aiming at lean/natural size. - Alot of feedback to try stay away from cardio whilst on it... hmmm...

Cheers,

Stan.

[genetic freek]

you want stimulants not steroids.

Clen would be best if this is the line you want to take, i think shakes and insomnia are the least of your probs.

if your worried about sides i think you will find winny is hard on the liver etc so maybe do your research first or alternatively just adjust your diet to cut fat like most ppl do.

Or develop belemia i hear the fat loss is good on that

[Stanley]

Winny doesn't seem that great with a decent amount of cardio due to the joints. Clen seems to have a few people say keep away from intense cardio due to the rise in heart rate - shakes/insomnia not a problem as I have read and been told take it early in the morning.

For weight loss and maintain muscle (Not aiming for bodybuilding gains) would Test be better then Winny/Clen? I'd say I would be 15-20% body fat at this stage.

Rather try one at at a time, hence asking questions. I find the BB forum posts and other information pretty all over the show.

Cheers in advance once again.

[Chemo]

Test is like the bread and butter of roids, it does wonders by itself and in your case would mean no joint pain, preserving muscle and a increased lipolysis. The only disadvantage would be dealing with shut down and that recovery period.

Clen with out test may turn out to be catabolic so you might loose a little mass if you do too much cardio. Perhaps with your type of training this may work against you.

Have you tried any natural stimulants or supplements before going to gear?

Anything with caffeine, green tea. Something like Jack3d before it goes of the shelf.

Also regarding liver support. Milk thistle is a good option, don't take during your oral AAS cycle, just after.

[Stanley]

Test is like the bread and butter of roids, it does wonders by itself and in your case would mean no joint pain, preserving muscle and a increased lipolysis. The only disadvantage would be dealing with shut down and that recovery period.

Clen with out test may turn out to be catabolic so you might loose a little mass if you do too much cardio. Perhaps with your type of training this may work against you.

Have you tried any natural stimulants or supplements before going to gear?

Anything with caffeine, green tea. Something like Jack3d before it goes of the shelf.

Also regarding liver support. Milk thistle is a good option, don't take during your oral AAS cycle, just after.

Yea I have read a bit about Test, there are different types; whats the most common you would suggest (Brand wise from what I read it differs some) and what would you take with it to avoid Gyno on a 6 week cycle, if you were to even get that on a 6 week.

Yea tried lots of natural supplements, they do ok but I find eatting food is better and I dislike taking Jack/SuperPump etc in evenings cause I don't go to sleep, which is hard for after work training. I drink Green Tea often as it is during the day between meals with fruit. Thanks for the Milk Thistle got a PM about that and read a bit more from BB with the support.

I think Test would be more well suited from what I read, just the bloat/mass water retention was a concern. keeping in mind its not body building/weight gains more a lean build, just looking for something to help along the way as I am at a decent plateau now to push it a bit more.

Sorry for the mass questions too. I did read up, but being in NZ I find this more valuable then getting info from American Boards, I guess what you can get in EU/US is a bit more limited here from what I gather, along with reading the threads here different goals a bit opposed to mass muscle/weight gain.

Cheers Stan.

[hhhh1]

Yea I have read a bit about Test, there are different types; whats the most common you would suggest (Brand wise from what I read it differs some) and what would you take with it to avoid Gyno on a 6 week cycle, if you were to even get that on a 6 week.

Yea tried lots of natural supplements, they do ok but I find eatting food is better and I dislike taking Jack/SuperPump etc in evenings cause I don't go to sleep, which is hard for after work training. I drink Green Tea often as it is during the day between meals with fruit. Thanks for the Milk Thistle got a PM about that and read a bit more from BB with the support.

I think Test would be more well suited from what I read, just the bloat/mass water retention was a concern. keeping in mind its not body building/weight gains more a lean build, just looking for something to help along the way as I am at a decent plateau now to push it a bit more.

Sorry for the mass questions too. I did read up, but being in NZ I find this more valuable then getting info from American Boards, I guess what you can get in EU/US is a bit more limited here from what I gather, along with reading the threads here different goals a bit opposed to mass muscle/weight gain.

Cheers Stan.

if you were using test you could take adex to keep water retention/bloat minimal and avoid gyno

[train_insane]

research clenbuterol

Thanks Train, looks good. Shakes/Insomnia were the two effects you can expect, Shakes seem to occur fairly fast.

Not much info on it for Cardio though, hmmm. Anyone know some good sites, I do generic Google and look at BB and other places, but most are for guys getting muscle gains/bulk not aiming at lean/natural size. - Alot of feedback to try stay away from cardio whilst on it... hmmm...

Cheers,

Stan.

it makes my hands shake a little, nothing visible to other people, its only noticable when im trying to write lol

[Optimass]

Winstrol is a good compound for growth ... just happens a bit slower and with less water which will make you look leaner anyway - so if you're looking for a mild low side option then it could be wat you are looking for and can be used safely.

I have only ever used granual clen ... 1 teaspoon will cause shakes in most people .. I used to be fine on 1 every 6-8 hours. No insomnia etc ... but then I have seen it do different things in diff people. Used for 2 weeks at a time ... with a 2 week break then on again ... should work just fine with winnie.

How much winny do you plan to use and are you only going to be doing cardio and cross fit? I doubt youd get any meaningful sorta weight gain with just winny, but youd do a good job preserving muscle and strength whist you cut and perform a lot of cardio exercise.

You can drink winny anyway so no issues with how you want to take it. \:D/

just man up and pin it :grin:

[Daz69]

if you were using test you could take adex to keep water retention/bloat minimal and avoid gyno

Adex tends to reduce estrone (E1) as opposed to estradiol (E2), even at high doses >2mg estradiol will only be slightly suppressed. Estradiol (E2) can be considered the bad estrogen. Its what gives peripheral symptoms of estrogen build up like water retention, gyno etc. So if you are on a strong aromatizable cycle you could suggest the use of Aromasin to control estrogen. Basically the conversion to estrone and estradiol is mediated by the same pathway but the substrate is different, testosterone is converted to estradiol where as estrone is converted from androstenedione. Using Adex only really effects the latter. Running proviron would probably be more ideal IMO but depends on what else you are taking? more aromatizing compounds would be best suited to using Aromasin but bear in mind some aromatization is good for gains. I wouldn't stress too much about estrogen unless it is a particular issue for you (bp, water retention, gyno, etc.)

[hhhh1]

interesting daz, thanks

[Chemo]

You can drink winny anyway so no issues with how you want to take it.

just man up and pin it

Allah be with me when I do, :pray: lol

if you were using test you could take adex to keep water retention/bloat minimal and avoid gyno

Adex tends to reduce estrone (E1) as opposed to estradiol (E2), even at high doses >2mg estradiol will only be slightly suppressed. Estradiol (E2) can be considered the bad estrogen. Its what gives peripheral symptoms of estrogen build up like water retention, gyno etc. So if you are on a strong aromatizable cycle you could suggest the use of Aromasin to control estrogen. Basically the conversion to estrone and estradiol is mediated by the same pathway but the substrate is different, testosterone is converted to estradiol where as estrone is converted from androstenedione. Using Adex only really effects the latter. Running proviron would probably be more ideal IMO but depends on what else you are taking? more aromatizing compounds would be best suited to using Aromasin but bear in mind some aromatization is good for gains. I wouldn't stress too much about estrogen unless it is a particular issue for you (bp, water retention, gyno, etc.)

Did not know.

Repped \:D/