Testosterone. Im going back wards? What gives?

[tomsammce]

Masteron has some interesting abilities to plump your nads back up too, but use the propionate version, not the Enanthate version, Enanthate version dosen't work as well.

why doesnt it?

[farrout]

5,Farout, I notice you are on arimidex permanently, can I ask why?

I thought most people only used it at the end of a cycle or if really needed?

If I do not take it regularly, I get itchy nipples & if left they start growing out from my chest. When this first happened I freaked out & got on to Arimidex straight away @ 0.5mg every 2nd day, however every 3rd or 4th works fine now.

I had a sore area near/around my left nipple a while back & thought the worse. After taking some advice, from memory I took 0.5mg for 4 days & the pain & lump subsided.

[Daz69]

5,Farout, I notice you are on arimidex permanently, can I ask why?

I thought most people only used it at the end of a cycle or if really needed?

If I do not take it regularly, I get itchy nipples & if left they start growing out from my chest. When this first happened I freaked out & got on to Arimidex straight away @ 0.5mg every 2nd day, however every 3rd or 4th works fine now.

I had a sore area near/around my left nipple a while back & thought the worse. After taking some advice, from memory I took 0.5mg for 4 days & the pain & lump subsided.

Is that all you take??

Adex tends to reduce estrone (E1) as opposed to estradiol (E2), even at high doses >2mg estradiol will only be slightly suppressed. Estradiol (E2) can be considered the bad estrogen. Its what gives peripheral symptoms of estrogen build up like water retention, gyno etc. So if you are on a strong aromatizable cycle you could suggest the use of Aromasin to control estrogen. Basically the conversion to estrone and estradiol is mediated by the same pathway but the substrate is different, testosterone is converted to estradiol where as estrone is converted from androstenedione. Using Adex only really effects the latter. So technically Adex shouldn't work to reduce gyno, but in your case it appeared to..........??

[farrout]

Daz69, I had only had the itching for a few days & regarding the latter it may not even have been gyno related & was going to improve whether taking adex or not.

[mrgeeky]

thanks everyone... some really informative stuff..

[mrgeeky]

HCG and HMG are good drugs to help you bounce back if you've been on for a while as is Proviron.

Before I get flamed this is my reason for Proviron:

With Proviron treatment, sperm count can be increased, the quality improved and, furthermore, a higher fructose concentration up to normal values can be achieved thus increasing the chances of procreation.

Masteron has some interesting abilities to plump your nads back up too, but use the propionate version, not the Enanthate version, Enanthate version dosen't work as well.

so you would happily use proviron for pct? Im not doubting you, just trying to learn.. so why dont the mainstream use proviron, or HCG or HMG or Masteron propionate instead of nolvadex? Is Nolvadex the hands down winner in PCT?

[Android]

HCG is talked about alot but try finding it in NZ and you soon realise...what's the point talking about something you can't get.

Ok, am sure some guys have it or can get it...but it's def not as easily sourced as nolvadex or arimdex and others.

Nolvadex is cheap.

There are pros and cons for taking either but the standard cycle that ends with Enanthate for instance is take a 20mg tab Nolvadex every day starting 2 weeks after your last pin, and take for 3-4 weeks.

It's simple, I like simple.

Since they come in 20-tab strips lots of people just do it for 3 weeks.

Never tried Arimidex, never had a need for anything other than Nolvadex. Never taken PCT during a cycle, never had a need.

When you see farrout and what he has to do it's clear the effects on people are very different and you have to learn what suits you.

Example: I add 100mg/day DHEA with the Nolvadex into my PCT to keep my workouts, motivation, muscle pumps, and feel-good factors high and prohormones like this aren't supressive on the HPTA system. Different strokes...

[mrgeeky]

HCG is talked about alot but try finding it in NZ and you soon realise...what's the point talking about something you can't get.

Ok, am sure some guys have it or can get it...but it's def not as easily sourced as nolvadex or arimdex and others.

Nolvadex is cheap.

There are pros and cons for taking either but the standard cycle that ends with Enanthate for instance is take a 20mg tab Nolvadex every day starting 2 weeks after your last pin, and take for 3-4 weeks.

It's simple, I like simple.

Since they come in 20-tab strips lots of people just do it for 3 weeks.

Never tried Arimidex, never had a need for anything other than Nolvadex. Never taken PCT during a cycle, never had a need.

When you see farrout and what he has to do it's clear the effects on people are very different and you have to learn what suits you.

Example: I add 100mg/day DHEA with the Nolvadex into my PCT to keep my workouts, motivation, muscle pumps, and feel-good factors high and prohormones like this aren't supressive on the HPTA system. Different strokes...

thanks for that Android.. your a wealth of information..

[snoopy]

Masteron has some interesting abilities to plump your nads back up too, but use the propionate version, not the Enanthate version, Enanthate version dosen't work as well.

why doesnt it?

[tomsammce]

It works fine, why wouldn't it...

[train hard]

Masteron has some interesting abilities to plump your nads back up too, but use the propionate version, not the Enanthate version, Enanthate version dosen't work as well.

why doesnt it?

Not sure bro, maybe it's just a personal thing

[snoopy]

Masteron has benefits for this, and is a very interesting compound, it also if run by itself is beneficial as PCT and is used by pornographic actors for it's very special trick.

Give it a go, you'll like it

[snoopy]

It works fine, why wouldn't it...

Two different brands bro, I have my suspicions

[tomsammce]

It works fine, why wouldn't it...

Two different brands bro, I have my suspicions

what's the brands?

Inb4 34thbrandshitstorm.

[snoopy]

It works fine, why wouldn't it...

Two different brands bro, I have my suspicions

what's the brands?

Inb4 34thbrandshitstorm.

Hahah can't say, but you know me quite well so the one I'm always using, (You asked me about cost) and a bioceuticals one, bioceuticals went belly up a while back, but the product looked the same as it always did

[bulking4ever]

Masteron has benefits for this, and is a very interesting compound, it also if run by itself is beneficial as PCT and is used by pornographic actors for it's very special trick.

Give it a go, you'll like it

I think you're confusing Masteron with Clomid(clomiphene).

Porn star Peter North declared his love for Clomid as he claimed it increased his load big time.

Masteron is a mild anti-aromatase and would be a good compound to run with Test or others depending on your goals, but for PCT, no way. It would still have negative effects on HPTA and thats not what you want when youre running PCT.

[snoopy]

Masteron has benefits for this, and is a very interesting compound, it also if run by itself is beneficial as PCT and is used by pornographic actors for it's very special trick.

Give it a go, you'll like it

I think you're confusing Masteron with Clomid(clomiphene).

Porn star Peter North declared his love for Clomid as he claimed it increased his load big time.

Masteron is a mild anti-aromatase and would be a good compound to run with Test or others depending on your goals, but for PCT, no way. It would still have negative effects on HPTA and thats not what you want when youre running PCT.

Really?? I read it was both, but yes Clomid does the same. I will run it as PCT by itself and post results (Tests) six weeks apart, as I am sure it can be run as PCT.

[musclenz]

Masteron & Clomid are totally different compounds working on different pathways. Masteron being a strong androgen is a DHT derivative & will suppress HPTA even used on its own. Proviron is regarded as being slightly less suppressive & less androgenic. Clomid mimics or stimulates LH like HCG. It only has mild anti-estrogenic ability. Use Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) in your PCT

[Daz69]

Masteron has benefits for this, and is a very interesting compound, it also if run by itself is beneficial as PCT and is used by pornographic actors for it's very special trick.

Give it a go, you'll like it

I think you're confusing Masteron with Clomid(clomiphene).

Porn star Peter North declared his love for Clomid as he claimed it increased his load big time.

Masteron is a mild anti-aromatase and would be a good compound to run with Test or others depending on your goals, but for PCT, no way. It would still have negative effects on HPTA and thats not what you want when youre running PCT.

I didn't think Masteron worked as an aromatise inhibitor..? I thought Masteron prevents estrogen related sides by raising base level Testosterone by being so androgenic in its nature.

[tomsammce]

Masteron has benefits for this, and is a very interesting compound, it also if run by itself is beneficial as PCT and is used by pornographic actors for it's very special trick.

Give it a go, you'll like it

I think you're confusing Masteron with Clomid(clomiphene).

Porn star Peter North declared his love for Clomid as he claimed it increased his load big time.

Masteron is a mild anti-aromatase and would be a good compound to run with Test or others depending on your goals, but for PCT, no way. It would still have negative effects on HPTA and thats not what you want when youre running PCT.

I didn't think Masteron worked as an aromatise inhibitor..? I thought Masteron prevents estrogen related sides by raising base level Testosterone by being so androgenic in its nature.

wow daz u right for once lol... having no legs must give u time to stop and think abit lol

[bulking4ever]

I didn't think Masteron worked as an aromatise inhibitor..? I thought Masteron prevents estrogen related sides by raising base level Testosterone by being so androgenic in its nature.

''To understand why Masteron can be used as an anti-estrogen, first we need to know that it’s derived from DHT. Why is this important?

This is important because DHT directly inhibits estrogenic activity on tissues. It is possible that it does this, possibly by acting as a competitive antagonist to the estrogen receptor or by decreasing estrogen receptor binding. Either way, it has multiple hypothesized mechanisms of action in some tissues. It has also been hypothesized that DHT actually suppresses estrogen’s effects not by inhibition of synthesis of estrogen receptor, but by (get ready…big words coming up) decreasing estrogen-induced RNA transcription at some point after the actual estrogen receptor binding has occurred. This means, in much simpler terms, that the estrogen gets to the receptor, but just doesn’t do its job (1). This means you can take steroids that convert to estrogen (called aromatizable steroids) and not worry about that estrogen possibly making you retain water, gain fat, or watch "Desperate Housewives." Also, this could mean that the antiestrogenic effect of DHT is mediated by an androgen receptor mediated mechanism.

In fact, DHT has been shown to prevent the estrogen-dependent augmentation of the progesterone receptor in human breast cancer cells. And, not to be redundant, but it’s important to remember that virtually all of the anti-estrogens we use to control gyno and water retention are also used to treat breast cancer. So, now we know have observed that androgens are capable of inhibiting both the estrogenic induction and the ongoing stimulation of PRc synthesis, but have no apparent effect upon basal concentrations of this receptor. Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) demonstrates a very high degree of inhibition of estrogen in human breast cancer cells. (2). But it’s not just DHT that does this; its metabolites have been shown to inhibit aromatization itself; DHT, androsterone, and 5alpha-androstandione are all potent inhibitors of the formation of estrone from androstenedione. In fact, it's so potent at reducing estrogen that transdermal DHT gel applied to the affected area has been used to treat gynocomastia (3). DHT is such a potent anti-estrogen that it been even been used to increase height in children with short stature, and since it’s been determined that this increase is not due to GH-mediated effects, it was strongly suggested that DHT’s anti-estrogenic effects are the mechanism by which it can increase height (4) Of course, I suspect I don’t need to tell you that DHT is structurally incapable or converting to estrogen…

So all of this tells us that DHT will certainly have beneficial effects on keeping our estrogen in check, but what about Masteron? Can it be used as effectively? Well, let’s take a look at what Masteron actually is, relative to DHT. But before we can do that, I think a quick explanation of DHT is in order first. Don’t worry; I’ll make it as brief and painless as possible.

DHT is actually the result of testosterone interacting with the 5alpha-reductase (5a-R) enzyme. This enzyme is present in the scalp, prostate, external genitalia, and other places. As far as I can see, it apparently exists for the sole purpose of converting a steroid with a double bond between carbon 4 and carbon 5 to one with a single bond between them, and subsequently adding a hydrogen atom to each carbon. This process is called (of course) 5alpha-reduction.

dehydrotestosterone

So now we know how testosterone becomes Dihydrotestosterone. And everything would be great if this is the only thing that happened to our good old friend testosterone, because as you may already know, DHT is a far more potent androgen than testosterone. But, unfortunately, this is not the end of the story, because DHT is largely deactivated by the enzyme 3-alpha Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase (3bHSD), which is mainly present in skeletal muscle.

For our purposes here, we’re only going to be concerned with one particular action of this enzyme. It can either converts a steroid with a keto group on position 3 of the steroid to one with a hydroxy group in that position, thus converting DHT is to androstanediol. This conversion is part of reason DHT alone has not proven to be a very effective muscle builder, as androstanediol is not going to be very anabolic at all. If you look off to the left of the following molecular diagram, and compare it to the one above for DHT, you’ll notice that the "O" (oxygen) has been replaced with an "HO" (hydrogen + oxygen) at the third position:

Androstanediol

3bHSD is present all over the body (as is 5a-R, for the most part), but is found in especially high concentrations in the scalp and prostate, and it’s even possible that its actions on DHT will exacerbate male pattern baldness in the former tissue. Also, it’s worth noting that DHT is the androgen responsible for development of external genitalia. This is most likely the reason that women experience a temporary clitoral hypertrophy when they use the often recommended steroids (Primobolan, Anavar, Winstrol, etc…) in excessive doses.

In an interesting aside, I find it really interesting that the most typical steroids recommended are the most likely to cause clitoral enlargement and other possible androgenic effects. But on the bright side, in my experience with female athletes, that first effect is most welcome...actually, topical DHT can even be used to treat Microphalia (extremely tiny genitalia) in males (5). This last fact, if you’ve ever wondered, is the type of information discussed behind closed doors by of owners and staff of "private/invite-only" anabolic steroid boards and forums…for obvious reasons…

Ok, so now you know what DHT is, where it comes from, what it can do, and why it’s not a particularly potent anabolic when used alone. Here’s what Masteron is, relative to its parent compound, DHT. Masteron is an injectable steroid that is simply the DHT molecule which has been altered to be 2alpha-Methyl-DHT…

Masteron, aka Drostanolone Propionate

This 2-alpha-methyl alteration makes it much more potent anabolic, although it’s still only about 60% as anabolic as testosterone and a quarter as androgenic. I’m going to speculate that these ratings make it not the most potent anabolic in the world, but its anti estrogenic effects plus its ability to increase aggression make it a very nice pre-contest addition. This is also where we get the absurd rumor that Masteron won’t do anything for you unless you’re already at a very low body-fat percentage. This is not true at all. No matter what body-fat percentage you’re at going to get a nice anti-estrogenic effect from Masteron, as well as some nice aggression and strength in the gym - the former and latter are both known as "non-genomic" effects, and are a result of the strong Central Nervous System stimulatory effects of Masteron, which is very common with DHT derived steroids. Basically, if you’re fat, and you take something that increases aggression and has anti-estrogenic effects (Halotestin and Arimidex, lets say), you wouldn’t expect to get huge and ripped. It’s the same thing with Masteron. Now, what if you add in Arimidex and Halotestin to a pre-contest cycle, you’ll get harder and look better. That’s exactly what’ll happen if you add Masteron into a Pre-contest cycle. It’s not that you have to be at some random body-fat percentage to get results from it, but you’ll need to be at that lower body-fat percentage to "see" those results. Again, if you’re fat and take Halo and Arimidex, you aren’t going to look much better…think of Masteron in similar terms, but it won’t work as well for aggression as Halotestin, and won’t be as good for combating estrogen as Arimidex. Gauged against either one of them alone, Masteron will likely make you look much harder and lift more weight. But if you are looking to do a low dosage cycle with a minimal amount of compounds in it, a simple Testosterone (propionate) and Masteron cycle may be exactly what you are looking for. On a personal note, that is a cycle that I use very frequently, at about 100mgs of each, shot every other day.

But has Masteron actually lived up to my claims for being an anti-estrogen? Yes. From 1968 to 1972, a decent sized study was conducted on Masteron, in a group of premenopausal women with breast cancer. About a third responded well to Masteron (6). This is because of its anti-estrogenic effects, clearly- though it doesn’t perform as well as Arimidex, Letrozole, or Aromasin. If you’re not running huge amounts of aromatizable steroids, this is a very good choice to add into your cycle. If you’re doing large amounts of those compounds, then you need to use a traditional anti-estrogen as your ancillary compound of choice. But if you’re running well under a gram of aromatizable steroids, Masteron will likely be all the anti-estrogen you need. This number comes from my person experience, as well as others I’ve interviewed.

Now, as a bit of an addendum, I’d like to address the use of Masteron in women. Lets get this straight: Masteron was developed for women. Okay? Got me? If you’ ve been paying attention up to this point, you already know that Masteron is intended for females and is derived from the same root (DHT) as most other steroids commonly used and recommended for female athletes (Primobolan, Anavar, Winstrol, etc…are all derived from DHT). And, another shocking fact is that Masteron has a lower androgenic rating than almost every other commonly recommended steroid used by female athletes. Anavar has a rating of 24 compared to oral testosterone and Masteron has a rating of 25 compared to testosterone, expressed as a percent (so yes that means 24% and 25% respectively).

Basically, Masteron works as a hormonal therapy for breast cancer and has been shown to be a useful and safe agent for females of all age groups, even though it may appear to be less effective then other possible therapies in postmenopausal patients (6). It is, therefore, very safe for women. Masteron is certainly no less safe than Anavar or Primobolan for women, as long as it’s used with something resembling a degree of respect and intelligence.

So there you have it. A totally new way to look at an old friend - Masteron - it’s useful as an anti-estrogen as well as an anabolic, and can certainly be safely used by both Men as well as women. ''

[Daz69]

I think you're confusing Masteron with Clomid(clomiphene).

Porn star Peter North declared his love for Clomid as he claimed it increased his load big time.

Masteron is a mild anti-aromatase and would be a good compound to run with Test or others depending on your goals, but for PCT, no way. It would still have negative effects on HPTA and thats not what you want when youre running PCT.

I didn't think Masteron worked as an aromatise inhibitor..? I thought Masteron prevents estrogen related sides by raising base level Testosterone by being so androgenic in its nature.

wow daz u right for once lol... having no legs must give u time to stop and think abit lol

Cripple Power......... :grin:

[Daz69]

I didn't think Masteron worked as an aromatise inhibitor..? I thought Masteron prevents estrogen related sides by raising base level Testosterone by being so androgenic in its nature.

''To understand why Masteron can be used as an anti-estrogen, first we need to know that it’s derived from DHT. Why is this important?

So basically I'm right... Next time you cut-n-paste an article in its entirety please credit your source...

http://thinksteroids.com/articles/maste ... -estrogen/

[crazyfacials]

I didn't think Masteron worked as an aromatise inhibitor..? I thought Masteron prevents estrogen related sides by raising base level Testosterone by being so androgenic in its nature.

''To understand why Masteron can be used as an anti-estrogen, first we need to know that it’s derived from DHT. Why is this important?

So basically I'm right... Next time you cut-n-paste an article in its entirety please credit your source...

http://thinksteroids.com/articles/maste ... -estrogen/

or give cliffs, poor Dave's brain fried when he read 4 lines

[musclenz]

regardless of the cut & paste, that article on masteron is a very good one inespecially in its ability to be used by females