THE NATIONALS THREAD!

[MasterTel]

As I wasn't at Nationals this year, I can't confirm any specifics about who was selected for a test. If a competitor's name is put on the list, but takes off before they are notified of it, then I guess you can't really take action against that competitor.

I'm not sure what the drug tester's protocol is, but in this situation (where the competitor takes off) I would like to see these competitors approached for an out-of-contest drug test in the days following an event. All NZFBB competitors signs a form at registration which commits them to a testing pool i.e. they can be tested any time during a specific period (I think it is still 18 months). That way, once you are named, you have to do the test of suffer the consequences (i.e. a ban).

I remember up until 2002, if a competitor failed a test they would get a ban (usually 2 years) plus a fine (approx $500) - if they refused the test they would just get a ban. I remember seeing the "failed" list back then and most people on it were there for refusing the test - I guess they knew they would fail so they took the ban and avoided the fine. Perhaps this (adding a fine) needs to be re-introduced to further discourage people trying to cheat the system?

[Marcus]

But surely if someone was seen taking off before they could be tested, Drug Testing NZ would be trying to track them down the next day at their house etc. Otherwise it will make a mockery of the system & competitors on gear will only stick around for the overalls if they know they will not be tested.

[MasterTel]

Exactly, Marcus - I agree totally with you. It's an area that needs a lot of scrutiny, and as an NZFBB Executive member, I am determined to find out more and see what can be done that isn't already being done.

There will always be debate about whether we should drug test or not, but as it stands at the moment we have drug testing. Most competitors respect the rules and it is important to do our utmost to protect them from the actions of the few who blatently cheat the system.

[Marcus]

It must be frustrating for the guys who placed behind these two in their respective classes.

[poos_n_wees]

Frustrated and angry I'd imagine. So selfish :x

[2guns]

ok its not compulsary to do the overalls, its the individuals decision weather to do them or not. so people shouldnt get sour if they decide not to.

sala is a friend of mine and have spoken to him since the comp.

he was told if he won his class he could apply for his pro card and this is all he wanted to do and also all he needed to do to complete what he set out to do.

It must be frustrating for the guys who placed behind these two in their respective classes.

Frustrated and angry I'd imagine. So selfish

marcus and poos and wees.

WHAT BULSHIT COMMENTS TO MAKE! how do u know the people who placed behind these "2 competitors" u speak of wouldnt have tested positive either. and besides that how do u know sala would have even tested positive??? he wasnt tested so dont jump to conclusions without proof!

[MasterTel]

turned out salas number was on the drug testing list. so what he did was a good move i think. and one i would have done myself if a 2 year ban and lots of bad publicity was almost guaranteed.

You seem to be contradicting yourself, 2guns. If you reckon Salah didn't do a runner from the drug test, why did you say what you did above?

Sure it is not compulsory to do the overalls, but given he had a realistic chance to challenge for the Mr NZ overall title, you have to wonder why he didn't bother.

The point a few of us are trying to make is those that do cheat the system make it very unfair for those that don't.

Oh, and FYI 2guns, I'd guarantee the guy that finished 2nd to Salah would definitely pass a drugs test.

[Pseudonym]

But surely if someone was seen taking off before they could be tested, Drug Testing NZ would be trying to track them down the next day at their house etc.

That assumes they have registered under the right address. I've been told that it's quite common to register under a false address to avoid the testers (that's hearsay, though, so take it with a pinch of salt). I'm told these people then complain they don't get NZFBB newsletters! :pfft:

as an NZFBB Executive member, I am determined to find out more and see what can be done that isn't already being done.

Why not do as the powerlifters do, and require bodybuilders to be on a register for a period of time prior to competition? It doesn't get around the fake-address problem, but it does solve the issue of skipping a test post-comp.

What about taking athletes cellphone numbers, so testers can ring up at random and say, "Where will you be this afternoon? OK, we'll meet you there."

Also, perhaps there's a good bio-chemestry answer to this, but why not take blood tests, instead of urine samples? Surely it would be quicker, less humiliating, and more accurate?

[2guns]

You seem to be contradicting yourself, 2guns. If you reckon Salah didn't do a runner from the drug test, why did you say what you did above?

yeah my bad memory, sorry.

although sala wouldnt have known he was on the list as no one knows until after wards when they start asking people if they have seen this person. so u cant tell for sure why he left early maybe other commitments.. who knows, thats his bussiness.

The point a few of us are trying to make is those that do cheat the system make it very unfair for those that don't.

i can see why some people could get pissed off at this while others dont worry too much about it.

its already hard enough for people to go far in this sport without changing the system to suite the people that lose or feel cheated.

i say have a separate class where there is no drug testing and you are able to apply for a pro card should u win. this would bring all the biggest guys into one comp instead of half of them competing for nabba and the other half for nzfbb. and would be alot better for the sport in nz in terms of crowds and support i think.

but like someones told me, the naturals need to support the roid users and vice versa for this to work.

Oh, and FYI 2guns, I'd guarantee the guy that finished 2nd to Salah would definitely pass a drugs test.

i dont think you can guarantee this unless he was tested even if u know him well. i know guys that use gear and theyve hide it from there family for ages. so its easy enough to say im natural. not saying i think hes on the gear. just think those comments before about them feeling cheated were abit bullshit when the people who made them most probably dont know what the competitors that lost in those classes use or what they dont use.

this is all i have to say... next topic

[poos_n_wees]

WHAT BULSHIT COMMENTS TO MAKE! how do u know the people who placed behind these "2 competitors" u speak of wouldnt have tested positive either. and besides that how do u know sala would have even tested positive??? he wasnt tested so dont jump to conclusions without proof!

[Marcus]

yeah my bad memory, sorry.

although sala wouldnt have known he was on the list as no one knows until after wards when they start asking people if they have seen this person. so u cant tell for sure why he left early maybe other commitments.. who knows, thats his bussiness.

You have to admit though 2guns that it's not a good look to leave like he did.

[Andrew]

i say have a separate class where there is no drug testing

So there should be a class for “Natural” competitors and a class for “Non Natural” competitors?...interesting concept

[2guns]

So there should be a class for “Natural” competitors and a class for “Non Natural” competitors?...interesting concept

no, you would have to call it a tested class and a non tested class.

not a natural and non natural because u will still get people who arent natural doing the tested class (remember not everyone would get tested, too expensive)

u will get this because some use it for an upper hand and also because some would want to hide that they use gear, this is why u get competitors who arnt natural doing natural shows. and by this im not saying if you use gear u shouldnt keep it to yourself as this is totally personal preference and your bussiness only.

but i dont think this would happen under the current nzfbb. just my opinions, im sure this has been thought of before though.

this way people wouldnt be getting held back in nz bodybuilding and could compete for a pro card as i know this is what alot of people who compete want.

[poos_n_wees]

So there should be a class for “Natural” competitors and a class for “Non Natural” competitors?...interesting concept

no, you would have to call it a tested class and a non tested class.

not a natural and non natural because u will still get people who arent natural doing the tested class (remember not everyone would get tested, too expensive)

u will get this because some use it for an upper hand and also because some would want to hide that they use gear, this is why u get competitors who arnt natural doing natural shows. and by this im not saying if you use gear u shouldnt keep it to yourself as this is totally personal preference and your bussiness only.

but i dont think this would happen under the current nzfbb. just my opinions, im sure this has been thought of before though.

this way people wouldnt be getting held back in nz bodybuilding and could compete for a pro card as i know this is what alot of people who compete want.

2guns, was this the idea bandied about at that NZFBB meeting where Mark Stewart's position as president was challenged?

I think I remember someone mentioning something about having a untested category in the NZFBB and cash prizes?

[FemMuscles]

The Plot thickens!!

Its all pretty funny really but I DONT think Salah deserves any kind of pro card at all! You have to do your dues as far as I'm concerned - you should earn your right as a long, improving, role model, regional champ bodybuilidng competitor - NOT what drugs you can take to try get there faster. When I first started you had to win around/aprox 4 Overalls at National event IFBB to go for/recieve Pro-card and I think it should still be so, its a right of passage and not to pay ya way in!!

If you do a runner in a tested show then you loose your title if you were in that drug testing list, so if Salah was on the test list then he DIDNT win that class but next guy did - thats how I see it! As mentioned before to be MR NZ and having Overall title is the BOMB, what does it say about you as a Bodybuilder if you run from that! :nod:

[mr junior nz]

Its a never ending battle between natural and non natural competitors but i think what 2guns said is a fair comment the naturals need to support the gear users and vice versa. Every bodybuilder are at different levels in theire careers some just want to get as big as they can and have dreams of beoming pro why other competitors think more about families and health and just want to compete. Every bodybuilder is strong minded and dedicated and it takes alot of blood sweat and tears to get on that stage natural or non natural.

But i must say it is a pain in the ass when you have people cheating and swapping federations for a couple of comps. Thats a problem we really need to sort out.

[2guns]

But i must say it is a pain in the ass when you have people cheating and swapping federations for a couple of comps. Thats a problem we really need to sort out

hey bro, could u please explain a lil better? i may be the only onw how doesnt understand what your saying.....

how can u cheat?

and people can swap federations as they like, there is no rule saying u have to compete for one federation only.

myself, i plan to stay with nabba and get big and get my conditioning good then go to nzfbb in few years.

[mr junior nz]

In cheating im mean guys or girls on the gear swapping to a natural federation like the nzfbb and cleaning up because they are un natural. Why not just stay in nabba and compete against guys that are taking the gear aswell that makes it a fair playing field. I ask the question what is the point of leaving nabba to compete in the nzfbb

[Andrew]

There are some “Natural” competitors who compete for both NZFBB and NABBA, I myself am planning to do this next year … NABBA Athletic class & NZFBB u70kgs class so saying this is cheating is a bit unfair, but I do see your point and hopefully with NZFBB drug testing it will be big enough deterrent

[2guns]

I ask the question what is the point of leaving nabba to compete in the nzfbb

this is simple, because u can go further in the sport with the nzfbb/ifbb.

u shouldnt get sour at guys on gear who do nzfbb

fair enough if they do inba or a natural federation like that.

p.s NOT EVERYONE IN NABBA IS ON GEAR

[mr junior nz]

Ok sorry to the naturals in the nabba federation.

I can see your point 2guns i forgot that nabba isnt recognised overseas by going through nzfbb that can further you in the sport is that right?

[2guns]

Ok sorry to the naturals in the nabba federation.

all good, its just u were making it sound like everyone in nabba is juiced and everyone in nzfbb is clean or should be :?

I can see your point 2guns i forgot that nabba isnt recognised overseas by going through nzfbb that can further you in the sport is that right?

well u can do the nabba universe etc. but i was just meaning in terms o applying for a procard etc

[MasterTel]

u shouldnt get sour at guys on gear who do nzfbb

fair enough if they do inba or a natural federation like that.

Sorry, 2guns, I don't agree with this at all. The NZFBB promotes drug-free bodybuilding by having drug testing at their events. OK, due to the high cost of each test, we are only able to have a handful of competitors tested at most events. Some competitors get tested and fail, but I'm sure there are many more who are "using" and avoid getting tested. Ironically, our testing is much more significant and effective than supposed "natural" organisations like the INBA!

The point I'm trying to make is that the majority of NZFBB competitors are drug-free and like to compete against other drug-free competitors. Those competitors on gear who compete in the NZFBB are basically cheating, and anyone competing against them has every right to get "sour" at these people. Personally, I compete to be the best I can be, rather than worrying about how good someone else is, natural or not. And I also compete for NABBA as a "natural" competitor, as a lot of other NABBA competitors are.

IMO, if you want to use gear, good luck to you, but stick to competing for organisations like NABBA instead of trying to cheat your way to a title in an NZFBB event.

[2guns]

IMO, if you want to use gear, good luck to you, but stick to competing for organisations like NABBA instead of trying to cheat your way to a title in an NZFBB event

this is a fair opinion and i respect this, i dont know u personally or what your goals are but i think your opinion would be different if u wanted to go far in the sport and not just compete for fun.

[MasterTel]

Thanks 2guns. That raises a very good question - why do we compete? True - I am not in this sport to be a world beater. Apart from the fact I didn't start competing until 6 years ago at the age of 40, I don't have the genetics to be anything special.

You are obviously young, and if I had started 20 years ago I may have dreamt of being Mr Olympia one day. Personally, I compete because I love the challenge, it helps "keep me young", and there aren't many sports where I can keep improving into my late 40s.

Hopefully I'll still be going at 60 years of age and beyond - but for now my goal is the same as it always has been ... to be be the best I have ever been the next time I get on stage!

What would the rest of you say if asked "what do you want to achieve from bodybuilding?"