Using Sus250 four times a week

[Tokoroa bodybuilder]

Hi people im on my 2nd cycle right now and it's going great. I have gone from 82kg to 87kg in just over two weeks using 8 dbol per day, 1ml of sus 3 times per week and one shot of deca at 1.5ml once a week. I was just thinking is there such a thing as to much? I'm thinking of stepping it up abit more and using sus250 4 times per week at 1ml per shot. Would this be a waste? I will be doing this until 2 days before christmas.

[bulking4ever]

Hey bro

That is a great mass builder cycle.

In my own experience the only diference I noticed when I jumped from 750mg/week Sust250 was more side effects.

When I went from 500 to 750mg/week I did notice good changes.

1gr of sust a week is a high dose, though not absurd. If you have all the precautions taken care of you will be alright. I personally would stay on 750mg.

You've still got a long road on that cyckle and it will make you really happy in a few weeks from now :grin:

[trainlikeafreak]

1gram plus extras seems a lot for a second cycle?

[Tokoroa bodybuilder]

Hey bro

That is a great mass builder cycle.

In my own experience the only diference I noticed when I jumped from 750mg/week Sust250 was more side effects.

When I went from 500 to 750mg/week I did notice good changes.

1gr of sust a week is a high dose, though not absurd. If you have all the precautions taken care of you will be alright. I personally would stay on 750mg.

You've still got a long road on that cyckle and it will make you really happy in a few weeks from now :grin:

Thanks for that advice bra i guess i gota roll with it rather than roll over and f*ck it up lol. Baby steps

[Outkast]

1gram plus extras seems a lot for a second cycle?

snobbed

[Outkast]

everybody is different... i know people who run a gram of test a week with no sides i also know people who get sides on 250mg... every body is different the only real way to find out if something works or doesnt work for you is to try it

[thatwaslight]

everybody is different... i know people who run a gram of test a week with no sides i also know people who get sides on 250mg... every body is different the only real way to find out if something works or doesnt work for you is to try it

/thread

[Hone]

Taking sus four times a week is not going to do you any harm, however it is not necessary. Sus 250 was invented for want of a better word by the medical world for guys on TRT. Sus can be taken once a week, once every 10 days or even once every 2 weeks.

If I am cruising and on sus then I will pin every 2 weeks. If on cycle then once every 7 days. Don't get too wraped up in that you have to do it more often to keep your blood levels stable. I have run it just about every way you can think of and have found no difference in gains etc.

If you are pinning 4 times a week, even if you site rotate from delts to arse to legs you are going to build up a lot more scar tissue than if you do it once a week. I inject up to 4 mls a time into above sites and have no problems so less is sometimes better unless you are running a fast acting compound like prop. Plus you will save a shit load of pins etc.

Of course if you are one of these weird guys who loves the feeling of the pin going into your flesh then go for it. I have known one or two over the years.

[thatwaslight]

Hone do you believe in site growth? also do you think bis can take 3-4ml?

[olympia]

everybody is different... i know people who run a gram of test a week with no sides i also know people who get sides on 250mg... every body is different the only real way to find out if something works or doesnt work for you is to try it

To true bro, i was getting sides off just 300mg a week of prop yet when i was doing 500 or 600 i had none.

[DANIEL8]

Hone do you believe in site growth? also do you think bis can take 3-4ml?

you never got back to us about pinning your tri's and bi's before training, still doing that bro?

feels mean aye 8)

[olympia]

Of course if you are one of these weird guys who loves the feeling of the pin going into your flesh then go for it. I have known one or two over the years.

:shifty:

[Tokoroa bodybuilder]

ok alla and all I guess each to there own. Can people now tell me what there experiences were with sides ??

[Tokoroa bodybuilder]

1gram plus extras seems a lot for a second cycle?

snobbed

:pfft:

[bulking4ever]

When jumped to 1gr I puffed up like a baloon, and had painful nipps which I'd never had before with anything.

Ade+Nolva took care of it right away, then kept on Adex for the rest of the cycle.

[musclenz]

Sort of agree with Hone on the delivery of Sustanon but here is an old argument that went around the traps many years ago that may shock some of you Sust Fans Recently Daz, Riccardo & I did some research on the release times of esters so this theory does not actually take in account for what we found. I will elaborate on that if users are interested.

Sustanon Front Loading (Edited by mnz...sorry its a bit of a long read but interesting none the less)

Author unknown

The proper use of Sustanon in a cycle by Squatdemon One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper dosages so you can fully benefit from the esters in Sustanon. Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not receive proper dosages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continuously, which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle. All test is the same, but only once the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results from the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate.

I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters: 30mg of prop, 60mg of phenylprop, 60mg of isocaproate & 100mg of deconate combined to give you 250mg. Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Let's take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body.

30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benefits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. Now let's say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week.

60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week . If injected twice a week, then let's even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week.

To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to suppress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. Now let's look at the longer acting esters in sus.

60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time.

100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Deca-Durabolin. The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3. This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon.

If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I don't even taper at the end (but that is a different story).

The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and fewer sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? First, I would answer don't buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (an old 4 ester test like sust), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal. If you don't believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter

acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesn't like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly @#%$, that's crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no it's not crazy, it's science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilder's needs equal injecting every day. People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do their work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay around 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference. Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and deca, or deca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and damn it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles was like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you don’t know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise!!

_________________

[thatwaslight]

cliffs bro?

[Tokoroa bodybuilder]

Sort of agree with Hone on the delivery of Sustanon but here is an old argument that went around the traps many years ago that may shock some of you Sust Fans Recently Daz, Riccardo & I did some research on the release times of esters so this theory does not actually take in account for what we found. I will elaborate on that if users are interested.

Sustanon Front Loading (Edited by mnz...sorry its a bit of a long read but interesting none the less)

Author unknown

The proper use of Sustanon in a cycle by Squatdemon One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper dosages so you can fully benefit from the esters in Sustanon. Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not receive proper dosages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continuously, which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle. All test is the same, but only once the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results from the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate.

I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters: 30mg of prop, 60mg of phenylprop, 60mg of isocaproate & 100mg of deconate combined to give you 250mg. Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Let's take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body.

30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benefits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. Now let's say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week.

60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week . If injected twice a week, then let's even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week.

To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to suppress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. Now let's look at the longer acting esters in sus.

60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time.

100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Deca-Durabolin. The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3. This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon.

If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I don't even taper at the end (but that is a different story).

The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and fewer sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? First, I would answer don't buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (an old 4 ester test like sust), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal. If you don't believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter

acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesn't like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly @#%$, that's crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no it's not crazy, it's science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilder's needs equal injecting every day. People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do their work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay around 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference. Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and deca, or deca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and damn it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles was like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you don’t know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise!!

_________________

My god you no your shit very very good read lol ill have to finish reading this after work tomorow night .thanks alot

[Hone]

Hone do you believe in site growth? also do you think bis can take 3-4ml?

I don't site inject mate and don't intend to. I think that is a lot of oil to go into a small muscle group like biceps which is made up of two heads, the inner and the outer.I know guys who pin a mil or so in each head but don't know anyone doing that much. Let me know how you get on if you do it.

I am not convinced that true site growth occurs when using steroids with an ester attached but something does happen to a muscle when you pin it over and over. Is it the fascia stretching or scar tissue build up I'm not sure. But I don't believe that the muscle that you inject into grows faster than any other muscle. Here's why I don't go along with that theroy.

Esterification is a process where a carboxylic acid is attached to the steroid molecule. This makes it difficult for the blood to pick it up and carry it into circulation and likewise slows the rate the drug can leave the injection site.As a result an inactive deposit of steroid can sit at the site of the injection, releasing slowly for days or weeks into the blood stream. Once free in the blood the ester is removed quickly by enzymes and the base steroid is rendered active. Different esters take longer than others at one end we have esters like prop with quite a short life and at the other end decanoate with a long life.

The esterified steroids you inject are useless at binding to the local receptors (say biceps as an example if you inject there) or any receptors for that matter until the ester is removed. Once this is done the steroid is active. The place where 98% of the ester is removed is the blood stream. 2% in the muscle cell. The enzymes which remove the esters are found in the blood stream.

So when you site inject it has to be taken away from the site (ie your bicep) into the blood stream where the ester is removed making the steroid active. Now every muscle has as good chance in binding with the steroid. The steroid will bind with the androgen receptor making a hormone-receptor complex, it then enters the cell nucleus where it binds to your DNA and you grow.

If the steroid does not have an ester then a very small percentage of the steroid can bind directly with the receptor of the injected muscle before the majority of it is released into the blood stream. This will help to increase the growth of the local muscle. The steroids that do this are winstrol, test suspension, injectable anadrol, injectable D'bol.

[Hone]

Sort of agree with Hone on the delivery of Sustanon but here is an old argument that went around the traps many years ago that may shock some of you Sust Fans Recently Daz, Riccardo & I did some research on the release times of esters so this theory does not actually take in account for what we found. I will elaborate on that if users are interested.

Sustanon Front Loading (Edited by mnz...sorry its a bit of a long read but interesting none the less)

Author unknown

The proper use of Sustanon in a cycle by Squatdemon One of the most misunderstood ideals when it comes to Sustanon is how to properly use it in a cycle. There is no wrong way, but there is a best way to administer proper dosages so you can fully benefit from the esters in Sustanon. Sustanon was developed for the primary reason of hormone replacement, and because of the mix of esters most patients only needed one shot a month to keep their hormone levels balanced. Because of this design, the bodybuilder will not receive proper dosages at once or twice a week injections. Your blood levels will fluctuate up and down continuously, which is not what you want while on a cycle. You want stable levels to give your body the best chance it can have to build plenty of muscle. All test is the same, but only once the ester is removed. People that say test is test are wrong unless you are assuming that the ester has already been removed. I have had plenty of different results from the different tests I have used, as well as I am sure you have too. The secret to making sus work correctly, is timing the esters so the blood levels do not fluctuate.

I will assume that everyone knows how an ester works and why one is added to the parent testosterone. With sustanon, you have 4 esters: 30mg of prop, 60mg of phenylprop, 60mg of isocaproate & 100mg of deconate combined to give you 250mg. Now everyone knows for themselves how much test they should take due to previous cycles or no cycles at all. Let's take each ester and see how long they will stay active in the body.

30mg of prop--Prop needs to be injected at least every other day to get the full benefits of the test. I think every third day is a little too long to wait, although some people may disagree. Now let's say you are doing a prop only cycle and injecting 30mg twice a week. You can see already that is a waste of gear. If you inject 30mg of prop twice a week you are totally wasting your time. You will NOT grow off of this, so you can basically take sus and knock it down to 220mg an amp if you are injecting once or twice a week.

60 mg of phenylprop--Phenylprop is not that much different than prop. You can get away with injecting the phenylprop ester every third day. Anyone that has taken nandrolone with a phenylprop ester knows that it is shorter acting and must be injected twice a week . If injected twice a week, then let's even cushion the amount, you will have all 120 mg in one week.

To recap, so far this is what you get the first week---180 mg of test in your system. If you ask me that was a waste of two amps. That is barely enough to suppress the axis, and that is about all you will have happen if you inject 180mg of test per week. Now let's look at the longer acting esters in sus.

60mg of Isocaproate--Isocaproate will give you a duration of about a week before it is let go. This is not bad, but at 60 mg you are still not getting enough test to make it worth the time.

100mg of Deconate--Here is the daddy of the four esters. This is the same ester that is used in Deca-Durabolin. The deconate ester should really average out at 2 weeks, but has been said to last up to 3. This ester was added at a 100mg dose to balance out the quicker acting esters used in sustanon.

If we review one more time, we can see roughly how much test we will have in our body per week when we use sus, and hopefully you can see it is very low. You can pretty much take out the prop and phenylprop until about week 3 or 4, because once the other esters release the test and it gets time to build up in the system, the prop and phenylprop is useless. Not until around week six are you going to get your test levels high enough to do any good, and if you are on a 10 week cycle and start tapering week 8, then your test have been only relatively high for about 2-3 weeks. Call me crazy, but that is not at all what I want in a cycle. Every test cycle should be started high to hit those receptors hard, and I don't even taper at the end (but that is a different story).

The numbers that BIGDAWG and I worked on basically show that your test levels will never at one time be stable for more that a couple of weeks. Why do you think that people say they have less bloat on sus and fewer sides. There is so little of the short acting test in your system at one time that it is impossible to get any bloat or side effects at all. So you ask, well what is the best way to take sus then? First, I would answer don't buy it. If you really want to use a 4 blend test then buy some of the old omna (an old 4 ester test like sust), they have more shorter acting tests in them and the blood levels will stay more equal. If you don't believe me, ask anyone that has used the old omna and they will tell you they got quite a bit of bloat from it. Reason being is the shorter

acting esters in the omna build up your blood levels quicker, hence you have the bloat factor. If someone doesn't like my first answer, then I will give them a second, "inject the sus everyday or at the least every other day." I usually get the "wholly @#%$, that's crazy!!!" answer. I usually tell them back, no it's not crazy, it's science. The actual science of sus combined with a bodybuilder's needs equal injecting every day. People seem to forget about the esters and think they are injecting all of 1750mg each week and getting every mg of it. Trust me folks, I am not talking about injecting 7 amps a week for 10 weeks, I am suggesting injecting an amp a day for 3 weeks, and letting the esters do their work after that. When you crunch the numbers, for the first two weeks you are really only getting the prop, phenylprop, and a little of the isocaproate. Maybe about 700-750 mg for the first two weeks, and for weeks after that when all of the isocaproate and deconate kick in you will stay around 600-800mg for weeks following the first couple. You have a perfect taper, if you are into that, and stable test levels. If you go to eod, it will vary a bit, but not enough to really make too much of a difference. Start off the cycle with 5 weeks of dbol while using the sus, and when you are done with the sustanon, then immediately start injecting two anabolics like eq and deca, or deca and primo/winny. This is a cycle that a lot of the pros are using called front end loading with an anabolic taper. I guinea pigged this idea when BIGDAWG and I were discussing it many months back, and damn it was a really good cycle. Not as good as 1000mg of aratest a week, but still a pretty good cycle. I have cycled sus/omna both ways, and trained relatively the same with the same kind of diet. The difference in the two cycles was like night and day, about a 15-17 pound difference, and two amps of omna a week was my first cycle too. You know the one you are supposed to grow the most off of because of the virgin receptors. So test may be test, but you will not get the same results from every ester out there if you don’t know how to time them. If you are thinking of a sus/omna cycle, give this a try. I promise!!

_________________

Cheers musclenz, I remember reading that sometime ago. Would be interested to what you guys found in relation to Sus. :nod:

[nate225]

I think Hone's suggesting you boys start site shots with suspension....and maybe run with TWL's 3-4mL per bicep...... :pfft: :grin: :shock:

Not being srs gents, I'm picking your arm would be in a world of pain if you tried that!

I think the fascia stretching is perhaps the main driver for the site shots many guys now seem to be using, though I know some still like the scar tissue delt look! :grin:

Direct site growth seems unlikely, particularly as Hone covered with esterified compounds.

[tomsammce]

site growth occurs from oil stretching the muscle fascia as nate said. 2 ml of test enanthate will do exactly the same amount of 'site growth' as 2 ml of test propionate... people only use the fast acting tests for site growth because you are using a much bigger quantity of oil more frequently... you are able to inject prop into ur bicep ed but its very unlikley and makes little sense to inject enanthate ed, but if you did you would get same results.

its the oil not the compound or the ester that stretches the muscle resulting in growth.

SEO's are the way to go if you want real site growth and 2-3ml per head of the bicep ed is quite common for noticable growth and as long as no lumps form and you follow instruction youll get a natural look.

it was gonna be about $1500nzd to do a proper 30-40 day bicep and tricep course with some really good stretching increasing in growth when i looked into it...

p.s i dont know why so many ppl are against SEO's. they are just uninformed and automatically think of the idiots on the internet they see.

[I Declare War]

site growth occurs from oil stretching the muscle fascia as nate said. 2 ml of test enanthate will do exactly the same amount of 'site growth' as 2 ml of test propionate... people only use the fast acting tests for site growth because you are using a much bigger quantity of oil more frequently... you are able to inject prop into ur bicep ed but its very unlikley and makes little sense to inject enanthate ed, but if you did you would get same results.

its the oil not the compound or the ester that stretches the muscle resulting in growth.

SEO's are the way to go if you want real site growth and 2-3ml per head of the bicep ed is quite common for noticable growth and as long as no lumps form and you follow instruction youll get a natural look.

it was gonna be about $1500nzd to do a proper 30-40 day bicep and tricep course with some really good stretching increasing in growth when i looked into it...

p.s i dont know why so many ppl are against SEO's. they are just uninformed and automatically think of the idiots on the internet they see.

this, thought that would all be common sense.

http://www.hafiller.com/hafiller/257977.html

try this for SEO, I know an IFBB pro who uses this exact product. hyaluronic acid is what makes up the synovial fluid around joints... it's thick and will last for up to 6 months. If I ever need to even something out, I'll be using this.

[Daz69]

Cheers musclenz, I remember reading that sometime ago. Would be interested to what you guys found in relation to Sus. :nod:

The topic was Steroid Esters... We did manage to find that there was very little research out there on esters and their release patterns/timings...

The ester half lives you read in many of the steroid forums are based on calculations of carbon atoms by Bill Roberts many years ago and are complete bollocks.....

So the true half lives for the esters of Sustanon are more like:

Propionate 2.25 days

Phenyl-Propionate 2.25 days

Iscaproate 4.5 days

Decanoate 7.5 days ........ (until proven otherwise)

All esters start releasing into the blood within several hours, and reach a double peak between 14 hrs and 3 days, Propionate takes 14 hours to reach a peak before decreasing at the rate to account for its esters half life..

Enanthate/Cypionate took about 2 days to reach a double peak. Decanoate took about 3 days, kept fairly stable blood levels till day 7 then reduced at a steady rate to insignificant levels at 3 weeks...

Which kinda throws a spanner in the works as regards Sustanons effectiveness for HRT over 3-4 weeks....

You'd be better off pinning Cypionate once a week..... Rather than having the faster acting esters in Sus peaking in the first few days then quickly tapering off to fuk all.... Suppose you could take a quarter dose every 2nd day if steady bloods were desirable....

After speaking to several EXPERIENCED members, we found the same pinning protocol doesn't work for everybody....

I personally find pinning Test E every 3rd day works fine for me, but double the amount every 7th day and it causes hormonal issues....

Several others pin once every 7-8 days and it works great for them...

Hence, see what works best for you............

That kinda sums up where we're at.... :doh:

[Hone]

Cheers musclenz, I remember reading that sometime ago. Would be interested to what you guys found in relation to Sus. :nod:

The topic was Steroid Esters... We did manage to find that there was very little research out there on esters and their release patterns/timings...

The ester half lives you read in many of the steroid forums are based on calculations of carbon atoms by Bill Roberts many years ago and are complete bollocks.....

So the true half lives for the esters of Sustanon are more like:

Propionate 2.25 days

Phenyl-Propionate 2.25 days

Iscaproate 4.5 days

Decanoate 7.5 days ........ (until proven otherwise)

All esters start releasing into the blood within several hours, and reach a double peak between 14 hrs and 3 days, Propionate takes 14 hours to reach a peak before decreasing at the rate to account for its esters half life..

Enanthate/Cypionate took about 2 days to reach a double peak. Decanoate took about 3 days, kept fairly stable blood levels till day 7 then reduced at a steady rate to insignificant levels at 3 weeks...

Which kinda throws a spanner in the works as regards Sustanons effectiveness for HRT over 3-4 weeks....

You'd be better off pinning Cypionate once a week..... Rather than having the faster acting esters in Sus peaking in the first few days then quickly tapering off to fuk all.... Suppose you could take a quarter dose every 2nd day if steady bloods were desirable....

After speaking to several EXPERIENCED members, we found the same pinning protocol doesn't work for everybody....

I personally find pinning Test E every 3rd day works fine for me, but double the amount every 7th day and it causes hormonal issues....

Several others pin once every 7-8 days and it works great for them...

Hence, see what works best for you............

That kinda sums up where we're at.... :doh:

Thanks Daz, I agree everyone is unique and if there is any sport that shows that it is bodybuilding, especially once chemical use is thrown in.