first prop cycle help

[growinglikeaweed]

hey guys new here,

have just started my first ever cycle and using test prop(titan) 100 mg EOD,

currently in week three now and starting to notice some really good changes.

i have enough for 10 weeks, but i was only planning on doing 6 -7 weeks as i have read multiple times on other forums is all you really need for prop

has anyone run 10 weeks on prop and if so do you think i would really benefit from running the extra 3 weeks on my first ever cycle, or should i cut it at 7 and begin pct,

NOTE//

this shit hurts!.

i really hope the pain decreases as my muscles get used to the substance... because atm it feels asif i am one big walking bruise.

[thatwaslight]

10 weeks. that is all

[DANIEL8]

try stop at 7 weeks when u have left over gear, bet ya cant

[growinglikeaweed]

yeah... the reason for stopping it at 7 weeks was that through research it seems asif the physical gains of prop will greatly slow down after about 7 weeks...and the sides will come at there strongest ..although i do realise 100 eod is not the largest of doses..

also, i chose prop as i am 12 percent bodyfat atm looking to get under 10 , would rather not have the water retention which can come from other tests,

....would adding in some dbol be completley counteractive to this even if i had a strict diet?

thoughts?

oh and thanks for pms can't reply yet as i am a new member

chur

[DANIEL8]

dbol you will hold water, but because i love dbol ill say use it!

[trademe900]

That's a pretty low dosage, why not 140 or 150? Just interested.

[growinglikeaweed]

umm mainly just because its my first cycle,

& from what i understand its not even though 100 eod is not heavy it is still very common for a begginer prop cycle.

are you saying i should up my intake ?

[trademe900]

umm mainly just because its my first cycle,

& from what i understand its not even though 100 eod is not heavy it is still very common for a begginer prop cycle.

are you saying i should up my intake ?

The thing about propionate is you can afford to up the dosage and find out yourself . The advantage of this ester is that any sides show up within a couple of days and you can regulate accordingly. Having said that, I wasn't advocating increasing your dosage but merely wondering. If it's good enough for you then that's all that matters

[growinglikeaweed]

yeah just didnt really wanna f*ck around with different dosages at the start without knowing how my body would react,

i think i will stick to 100 for another week at least and then i will look into uping my dosage thanks trademe

and daniel 08 yeah i hear dbol gives amazing pumps and strength increases so im sorta keen to maybe add in even a short 2 weeks of liquid oral (titan) ...just because i can haha

[WANABJAKD]

8-10 weeks is good. you can cut with any gear, but if your holding water you wont see anything

[HarryB]

umm mainly just because its my first cycle,

& from what i understand its not even though 100 eod is not heavy it is still very common for a begginer prop cycle.

are you saying i should up my intake ?

It's interesting to me that a newby thinks 100mg of prop EOD is a good starting dosage. I mean 350 test a week? I am so old school, my first course maxed at 150mg test/week with 4 dbol per day and I only hit that for 2 weeks before cycling down again.

I often wonder why the trend to greater and greater usage when the results don't seem to justify it, plus I guess what do you do next cycle? 700mg, so by 3 or 4th cycle you are hitting 1gram a week?

Not adding anything contructive here I know but always find this section interesting. Look forward to seeing your gains on this protocol.

[thatwaslight]

I dont understand the mantra of once you go up you cant come down?? I've run several cycles at the same even lower doses and grown? It's not like once you've done a gram anything less than that won't yield results.... Thoughts?

[HarryB]

I dont understand the mantra of once you go up you cant come down?? I've run several cycles at the same even lower doses and grown? It's not like once you've done a gram anything less than that won't yield results.... Thoughts?

No I agree you can run similar doses and still gain. You can shut down your receptors and then your body needs more to respond, but if you take your breaks etc etc then you will still respond. It's just that guys rarely come down... and I am just one who advocates doing the least you have to to get a good result.

[train_insane]

im in week 9 of 16, also running tren ace, winstrol and clenbuterol

[thatwaslight]

im in week 9 of 16, also running tren ace, winstrol and clenbuterol

wow strong second cycle, doses of each? oral or depot winny? joints?

[train_insane]

im in week 9 of 16, also running tren ace, winstrol and clenbuterol

wow strong second cycle, doses of each? oral or depot winny? joints?

yeah bro everythings wicked as, i couldnt even bench 100kg for 1rep before cycle, now im doing 120kg for 3 reps TO THE CHEST !!!!!

im currently on 200mg prop, 100mg tren EOD and i have winstrol inject but i cant draw the shit out so im just drinking it 50mg each day not noticing it really but ive bought it so im using it. Ive been tappering my doses up slowly, only started on 100prop and 50tren, start 250mg prop and 150mg tren on saturday. i know theres alot of talk about increasing doses not doing anything and just getting more sides but im just getting stronger and stronger. Squated 120kg to the ground for 5reps 1st time ever today

the plan in the last 4weeks is to do 300mg prop and 200mg tren ace, im sure others wont want to here that !! but im doing it

[I Declare War]

im in week 9 of 16, also running tren ace, winstrol and clenbuterol

wow strong second cycle, doses of each? oral or depot winny? joints?

yeah bro everythings wicked as, i couldnt even bench 100kg for 1rep before cycle, now im doing 120kg for 3 reps TO THE CHEST !!!!!

im currently on 200mg prop, 100mg tren EOD and i have winstrol inject but i cant draw the shit out so im just drinking it 50mg each day not noticing it really but ive bought it so im using it. Ive been tappering my doses up slowly, only started on 100prop and 50tren, start 250mg prop and 150mg tren on saturday. i know theres alot of talk about increasing doses not doing anything and just getting more sides but im just getting stronger and stronger. Squated 120kg to the ground for 5reps 1st time ever today

the plan in the last 4weeks is to do 300mg prop and 200mg tren ace, im sure others wont want to here that !! but im doing it

You could have lifted all those weights, and a hell of a lot more, with just a little dedicated hard work.

[train_insane]

wow strong second cycle, doses of each? oral or depot winny? joints?

yeah bro everythings wicked as, i couldnt even bench 100kg for 1rep before cycle, now im doing 120kg for 3 reps TO THE CHEST !!!!!

im currently on 200mg prop, 100mg tren EOD and i have winstrol inject but i cant draw the shit out so im just drinking it 50mg each day not noticing it really but ive bought it so im using it. Ive been tappering my doses up slowly, only started on 100prop and 50tren, start 250mg prop and 150mg tren on saturday. i know theres alot of talk about increasing doses not doing anything and just getting more sides but im just getting stronger and stronger. Squated 120kg to the ground for 5reps 1st time ever today

the plan in the last 4weeks is to do 300mg prop and 200mg tren ace, im sure others wont want to here that !! but im doing it

You could have lifted all those weights, and a hell of a lot more, with a little dedicated hard work.

ive trained hard and am dedicated like no other natural gains take too long, im not trying to be a bodybuilder i just wana look good ... yesterday !!

[I Declare War]

yeah bro everythings wicked as, i couldnt even bench 100kg for 1rep before cycle, now im doing 120kg for 3 reps TO THE CHEST !!!!!

im currently on 200mg prop, 100mg tren EOD and i have winstrol inject but i cant draw the shit out so im just drinking it 50mg each day not noticing it really but ive bought it so im using it. Ive been tappering my doses up slowly, only started on 100prop and 50tren, start 250mg prop and 150mg tren on saturday. i know theres alot of talk about increasing doses not doing anything and just getting more sides but im just getting stronger and stronger. Squated 120kg to the ground for 5reps 1st time ever today

the plan in the last 4weeks is to do 300mg prop and 200mg tren ace, im sure others wont want to here that !! but im doing it

You could have lifted all those weights, and a hell of a lot more, with a little dedicated hard work.

ive trained hard and am dedicated like no other natural gains take too long, im not trying to be a bodybuilder i just wana look good ... yesterday !!

Why do you need steroids to look good?

Before I touched the sauce I could bench 100kg for more than 10 reps, and now when I look back at how I trained then, I see I could have easily hit 20 reps or more without even needing to touch the sauce.

You buddy, are on the path to all drugs. Be careful, after you go off you're going to loose all your gains and then you'll start repeating a viscous cycle.

I see it all the time. Some skinny fella asks me in the gym what I'm cycling and then tells me he used to be over 100kg (yea, right...) when he was juiced and tells me that he was able to lift this and that... then I watch him train after talking to him and he can't even do one proper rep on any exercise I see him do.

[train_insane]

i understand what your saying but im a little smarter this time round. i lost everything and more on my 1st cycle (11kgs) in 1 month because i didnt know what to expect on steroids, i didnt no what it was ment to feel like, therefore becoz i dont get water retention ( yay for me) i thought that the enanthate wasnt working so i just stopped and didnt do pct, even to this day 12months on i still cant do certains weights i used to back then. theres no knowledge like experiance, anyone can come on here and bleet on about this and that etc etc, but experiance is experiance, everyones unique and an indivual such as me, i dont get water retention even on enanthate.

[train_insane]

my sloggan isnt train insane or remain the same for nothing, i know how to train, im all about the form, i dont arch, i dont swing, i bench to the chest, i squat ass to calf, i can indeed do heavier weights but form is greater than weights that is all, i love watching meat heads squat bouncing off boxes and arching there back bench pressing, swinging there hips arm curling coz it reminds me that i know what the f*ck im doing !!!!!

[train hard]

I dont understand the mantra of once you go up you cant come down?? I've run several cycles at the same even lower doses and grown? It's not like once you've done a gram anything less than that won't yield results.... Thoughts?

^this i don,t get it either my last 4 or 5 cycles have all averaged the same overall weekly mgs and i have made progressing gains on each cycle its still time under the bar that counts not upping gear each cycle my next cycle will be the same overall dose again and i expect to still make gains above and beyond the last cycle

[tomleegolf]

yeah bro everythings wicked as, i couldnt even bench 100kg for 1rep before cycle, now im doing 120kg for 3 reps TO THE CHEST !!!!!

Squated 120kg to the ground for 5reps 1st time ever today

the plan in the last 4weeks is to do 300mg prop and 200mg tren ace, im sure others wont want to here that !! but im doing it

Wtf, you couldnt even bench 100 and you started to cycle? I've got the same lifts as you and I'm only 69 kgs.

[train_insane]

yeah bro everythings wicked as, i couldnt even bench 100kg for 1rep before cycle, now im doing 120kg for 3 reps TO THE CHEST !!!!!

Squated 120kg to the ground for 5reps 1st time ever today

the plan in the last 4weeks is to do 300mg prop and 200mg tren ace, im sure others wont want to here that !! but im doing it

Wtf, you couldnt even bench 100 and you started to cycle? I've got the same lifts as you and I'm only 69 kgs.

dont be a cock i can lift off 140 easy but it only counts when it hits the chest, but im not a phaggot who does it at a half rep, youtube pro bodybuilders not one of them doesnt bench to the chest. you bench 100kg at 69kg ????? lol one of those guys aye?? i can just it, no full range of movement, bad form, back arching, elbows shaking

this is a forum of opinions, you wont get anywhere arguing with me, ur behind a computer and so am i.

Form is greater than weight and always will be, taking steroids has nothing to do with trying to be a meathead and maximise my weights i life, i getting insane lean gains and shedding fat, i eat healthy and thats y i do it

[Daz69]

I dont understand the mantra of once you go up you cant come down?? I've run several cycles at the same even lower doses and grown? It's not like once you've done a gram anything less than that won't yield results.... Thoughts?

No I agree you can run similar doses and still gain. You can shut down your receptors and then your body needs more to respond, but if you take your breaks etc etc then you will still respond. It's just that guys rarely come down... and I am just one who advocates doing the least you have to to get a good result.

Hey Harry... You've made reference to Receptor shut-down/downgrade several times... There has been some debate on this subject recently... May I quote an article I came across:

THE MYTH OF RECEPTOR DOWNGRADE

There is much talk on the net about roids some people know what they are talking about, and some well are just reinforcing myths. One thing I hear about all the time is the topic of androgen receptors or (ARs). It seems many people still believe that over the course of a cycle ARs downgrade this just isn’t the case. People argue the downgrade point because of the fact there comes a time growth slows or stops though the dose of testosterone hasn't changed.

It also stems from the fact that we know other receptors of the body do downgrade. Take ephedrine for example, it binds to beta-receptors, over a period of time the number of receptors on a target cell begins to decrease. This is due to a decrease in the half-life of receptor proteins without a decrease in the rate that the cell is making new receptors which leads to a decrease in the potency of a given dose.

The above happens with many substances and receptors but androgen receptors are very different. Many studies that are coming out these days show in the presence of high concentrations of testosterone receptors up regulate to consume the higher amounts of testosterone in the body. When you stop growing it is not because of down regulation and here is why.

Most everyone knows a little about how steroids work increased protein synthesis right? Well there is much more to it than that. They also increase the activity of satellite cells, GH and igf-1, also increase new myofiber formation.

In one study I read a 500mg injection of testosterone per week increased GH levels by 18% and IGF-1 levels by 15% that shows a powerful effect! Activation of satellite cells by testosterone requires IGF-1 and as a loop effect aromatized test that turns to estrogen again increases IGF-1 so each plays off the other with the end result being increased satellite cell production. This leads to a greater capacity for protein synthesis by increasing fusion of satellite cells to existing fibers.

Proliferation of satellite cells is needed in order to meet the needs of thousands of muscle cells all potentially requiring additional nuclei. Differentiation is necessary in order for the new nucleus to behave as a nucleus of muscle origin. The number of myonuclei directly determines the capacity of a muscle cell to manufacture proteins, including androgen receptors.

So you see the increased test levels actually increase satellite cells which in turn down the road increase receptors. It also seems the higher the dose the more the activity of satellite cells increase. That doesn't mean jump right in to 2-3g doses of test you have to build up receptors over time. All jumping up to a huge amount of test will do is give you an estrogen level of a tranny queen who happens to have muscle lol.

Here are a few quotes to support my claims

Endocrinology (1990) 126 1165. In fibroblasts cultured from human genital skin which contained very low amounts of 5-alpha reductase, 2 nanomolar tritium-labeled testosterone [which is sufficient to saturate ARs] produced a 34% increase in androgen receptors as measured by specific AR binding, the best assay method known, and 20 nanomolar tritium-labeled testosterone produced an increase of 64% in number of ARs.

J Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology (1990) 37 553. In cultured adipocytes, methyltrienolone and testosterone demonstrated marked up regulation of AR content upon administration of androgen. 10 nanomolar methyltrienolone increased AR content (as measured by binding to radiolabeled androgen) by more than five times, relative to zero androgen.

J Steroid Biochemistry and Molecular Biology (1993) 45 333. In cultured smooth muscle cells from the penis of the rat, mRNA production was found to be up regulated by high dose testosterone (100 nanomolar) or DHT. When 5-alpha reducatase was inhibited by finasteride, thus blocking metabolism to DHT, AR mRNA production was down regulated in response to testosterone. Blockage of the aromatization pathway to estrogen by fadrozole eliminated this downregulation effect. Estradiol itself was found to down regulate AR mRNA production in these cells.

Endocrinol Japan (1992) 39 235. One nanomolar DHT was demonstrated to increase AR protein by over 100% within 24 hours, relative to zero androgen level. The half life of the AR was demonstrated to increase from 3.3 h to 7.5 h as a result of the androgen administration.

Endocrinology (1996) 137 1385. 100 nanomolar testosterone was found to increase AR levels in vitro in muscle satellite cells, myotubes, and muscle-derived fibroblasts.

The main reason growth stops when the dose remains the same is the body doesn't like change, it will fight you every step of the way. When you increase the amount of anabolic hormones, catabolic hormones will rise as well. When the concentration of catabolic hormones is high enough growth is off set or even stops. When that happens you can do one of two things. Stop taking gear so the body can return to normal or increase the amount of test to once more be in an anabolic state. The increase in receptors is the reason you can use more and more test every cycle, and the funny thing is these receptors once built will hang around for a very long time even years ever increasing your ability to build muscle .

Your thoughts please Harry....