Is deca worth using for less than 12-15 weeks?

[thatwaslight]

200-400mg of test along-side 600-800mg of tren. plenty of people do this, ive done it - why is it so taboo?

[Android]

there's another thread around about the effects Tren has on people ... "grandiose delusion" springs to mind here for WBJ.

I don't wanna jump on some slagging thread against you WBJ but it's safe to say without slagging that you're "not all there"...if you know what I mean.

If you don't know what I mean...then you're def "not all there". Come off the gear especially the Tren.

[I Declare War]

Check this out WBJ.

This is the fella that got me into lifting seriously.

He had some crazy work ethic and was the most OCD fella ever. All natural 100%.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=252133.350

He says he's 5'9" but I think he's more like 5'7 almost eye to eye with me.

[WANABJAKD]

You need to go back to the basics bro and learn what proper hard work is.

Forget about drugs for a few years.

Just my 2c

if your referring to compound lifts, then yes, i do most of them. i just struggle in "feeling" the muscles work, and thats why ive seemingly gotten more out of isolation exercises.

You need to go back to the basics bro and learn what proper hard work is.

Forget about drugs for a few years.

Just my 2c

He can't.... it's an ongoing thing, imagine though being a guy who has uses that much gear, knows that much about nutrition, drugs and training and is still searching really hard for the magic formula.

Honestly WBJ, the proof is in the pudding. You disregard what people have achieved using means that you don't agree with even when they have achieved a lot more than you have. That's why you get slammed for being an idiot. I am sure you are far from stupid but give some credit where it's due. I personally think you're suggestions relating to drug usage are ridiculous but that's because I respond to far less, as do most of us I think. When you write what you have done and taken I look for more gains or more power or more condition, when I see pics I am sadly disappointed which is why your advice doesn't get much credibility. You do have a lot of information and no doubt you apply it... why isn't it working on you?

im only using just over a 1g in total (test e/tren e) right now. as far as your expectations go, this photo was taken natural, flat, first thing in the morning and in broad daylight. im not the kind of person who will go prancing around the house trying to find good lighting to take pics.

"why isnt it working?" well, like i said a while back, training is the only uncontrollable variable! my diet can be spot on and i can take all the drugs in the world but it will all be in vain if the training is lacking. thats the missing link in this equation. lets face it, health aside, if you eat enough protein and enough calories for energy you will build muscle if your training is spot on. im sure everyone knows someone who fits this bill...

im going to just go back to low volume. so far training for hypertrophy with my imbalances and not utilising the body evenly has lead to premature fatigue. i think that maybe if i go back to low volume, i wont prematurely fatigue and therefore should be able to hold a stronger posture throughout my entire workout - i truly believe thats what has lead to my imbalances.

[thatwaslight]

whenever you post wbj all i see is a long winded herp derp herp derp.

I looked bigger and in better condition than you when i was natural coming from 60kg with horrible ectomorphic genetics..

blowing smoke up my own ass? no def not im nothing special at ALL. But i'm making the point that if you need to run all the various cocktails of tren to look the way you do then unfortunately you just went......

[tomsammce]

Dat dere lupi olive oil straight out the 500ml bottle.

Dat dere placebo effect

herp derp, herp derp... Fapfapfapfap!!!

[olympia]

Sorry a bit off subject but say if i was going to use 500mg a week of test prop and wanted to stack it with Tren what would the ideal first time trenny user want to dose at? Also would running Deca with these be fine over a 15 week period?

[DANIEL8]

why would u post that picture lol

[HarryB]

why would u post that picture lol

Well he's got decent delts.... see that's me being positive.

[tomsammce]

StrongRamyface/10

[startinfromscratch]

WBJ eating a fatty heart attack burger? nononononono

[tomsammce]

Ramy, u related to moe mousawwi? Same eyebrows

[tomsammce]

Inb4 DNA/excrement test

[thatwaslight]

WBJ is the new nick smith/nick David

[WANABJAKD]

why would i post that picture? because thats what i look like all year round off the gear. why take pictures with 5kgs + of retained water and glycogen along with harder muscles due to estrogen reduction? these are only temporary illusions - they will always go when you conclude your cycle...

yeah i eat big macs and double downs, dont trip 8)

[severe]

We don't care if you are brokeback. But, I care that your posts contain assumptions that everyone else on gear is deluded into thinking it is a magic fix.

What a retard.

You post pics after telling us you running some good numbers of mixed compounds, but the pic doesn't fit the statements.

Hell, I look better than that from Crossfit, and no gear.

Sure, I am not a massive mucle guy anymore, but you are full of shite.

[Specter]

I was just comparing your pics from the ones posted here and the ones from your inhouse comp....the advantage for you is your young and there is some great potential there for you in the future, in regards to the use of gear, we all have our own code and rules in regards to this, from time to time we will snub others who use gear and think they know more than the rest of us, I once said on here that when you start using gear, you feel like your fucking invincible and your become a arrogant c*nt, and anyone else who says any different is a fucking liar! I like to think with our own experiences we can offer excellent and straight foward advice that we have been through ourselves, and not some dumb advice we got off another forum or such and such said this and that!

Im sure you know your stuff bro, but is that from experience or from text books or just your own superior knowledge that you think is above the rest of us on here?

IN short bro...

When you come up with the GOODS then you can give your advice and opinion on certain matters!

Keep training hard, and dont blame the gear for mental issues.. having a strong mental focus to your emotions is the Number 1! 8)

[HarryB]

why would i post that picture? because thats what i look like all year round off the gear. why take pictures with 5kgs + of retained water and glycogen along with harder muscles due to estrogen reduction? these are only temporary illusions - they will always go when you conclude your cycle...

yeah i eat big macs and double downs, dont trip 8)

ummmm but they don't all go... the idea behind using gear intelligently is to retain some of the gains you make whilst "on" that way you start your next course from a higher platform and change your bodies set point for weight and muscle mass. If it all went when we concluded our cycles I would still be the 100 fat guy I was when I started training. I recently resumed training hard and anabolics after an almost 3 year lay off from any kind of steroids and in that time my weight didn't drop under 110 and I was still capable of shifting good numbers in training. Do you stop training when you come off and just give up on the idea of retaining anything? Perhaps you need to change your mindste towards making improvements and you might find that your gains come better from less drugs and more effort, coupled with the attitude that we use drugs in cycles but we train hard all the time.

[Specter]

why would i post that picture? because thats what i look like all year round off the gear. why take pictures with 5kgs + of retained water and glycogen along with harder muscles due to estrogen reduction? these are only temporary illusions - they will always go when you conclude your cycle...

yeah i eat big macs and double downs, dont trip 8)

ummmm but they don't all go... the idea behind using gear intelligently is to retain some of the gains you make whilst "on" that way you start your next course from a higher platform and change your bodies set point for weight and muscle mass. If it all went when we concluded our cycles I would still be the 100 fat guy I was when I started training. I recently resumed training hard and anabolics after an almost 3 year lay off from any kind of steroids and in that time my weight didn't drop under 110 and I was still capable of shifting good numbers in training. Do you stop training when you come off and just give up on the idea of retaining anything? Perhaps you need to change your mindste towards making improvements and you might find that your gains come better from less drugs and more effort, coupled with the attitude that we use drugs in cycles but we train hard all the time.

I will agree with Harry, I am currently in a 2.3 year lay off from gear, if anything it was getting the mindset of "I dont need the gear", and I take almost zero supplements except for multi and protein powder. For me it was taking a different approach to things and focusing on other disciplines, powerlifting techniques, Muay Thai, and pure effort. It comes down to more mental focus which I still lack sometimes and it is a constant battle...focus more on your approach to things and hit them hard!

[WANABJAKD]

ummmm but they don't all go... the idea behind using gear intelligently is to retain some of the gains you make whilst "on" that way you start your next course from a higher platform and change your bodies set point for weight and muscle mass. If it all went when we concluded our cycles I would still be the 100 fat guy I was when I started training. I recently resumed training hard and anabolics after an almost 3 year lay off from any kind of steroids and in that time my weight didn't drop under 110 and I was still capable of shifting good numbers in training. Do you stop training when you come off and just give up on the idea of retaining anything? Perhaps you need to change your mindste towards making improvements and you might find that your gains come better from less drugs and more effort, coupled with the attitude that we use drugs in cycles but we train hard all the time.

what i was trying to say was that glycogen and water retention is only a side effect. the training is what is going to deliver retained results - not the food, not the drugs - regardless of what anyone says.

ive always pushed myself hard since the day i started, but now, regardless of what effort i put in, its like im banging my head on a wall because i cant train properly with these imbalances.

ive always had naturally high test off cycles, and so i dont get depressed or feel down when i come off. the only thing im getting out of the gear is the ability to train more often. as far as strength goes, thats worth next to nothing now that i cant train properly. as a matter of fact, alot of my lifts have come DOWN in the last six months.

as i said earlier, im going to revert to what i was doing when everything was bliss - when i was natural. im going to do low volume 4-8reps with 3-4 exercises only. ill see if the reduced volume allows me to not prematurely fatigue and therefore have greater mental and physical focus, allowing my posture to not turn to custard. if this doesnt work, ill then look into getting some coaching. i guess the reason why im still trying is because im stubborn. i know what the problem is, im just having a hard time fixing it.

as for the haters - take a photo when your off the gear completely; when your flat and when your estrogen is up and your holding water.

ive never once said i was big and you probably wont ever hear it. at 5'9, with a wing-span of 6'2/6'3, thats going to take some crazy amount of muscle to accomplish.

i could easily take pics under the best possible light after i fill up weighing 86-88kgs, then lie and tell you guys i weigh 95kgs and you would easily believe that. when i stand next to guys 10kgs heavier (or more), i look just as big, but in better condition. body building has never been about the weight.

[Daz69]

Sorry a bit off subject but say if i was going to use 500mg a week of test prop and wanted to stack it with Tren what would the ideal first time trenny user want to dose at? Also would running Deca with these be fine over a 15 week period?

You were on topic, its everyone else that's off topic.... :pfft:

If you have not used tren before then you could start off on some tren acetate rather than tren enanthate, the reason being if you do get any side effects that do not agree with you then the acetate will be out of your system quickly rather than having to put up with a week or so of sides if using enanthate.

Running Nandrolones (Deca) & Trenbolones together can more than double the negative sides sometimes encountered with this group.....

Try Equipoise...... instead of Deca.... Also you could run Proviron for its anti E properties & to keep SHBG in check....

Trenbolone Acetate I've run at 50/75mg EOD, I've read that over 300mg/week of tren & you don't really see any benefits, other than increasing the negative ones......

[pyro]

what i was trying to say was that glycogen and water retention is only a side effect. the training is what is going to deliver retained results - not the food, not the drugs - regardless of what anyone says.

No wonder you don't have great gains, 4 cycles and using a huge amount of gear. Maybe you should just stop and learn how to eat properly.

[I Declare War]

what i was trying to say was that glycogen and water retention is only a side effect. the training is what is going to deliver retained results - not the food, not the drugs - regardless of what anyone says.

No wonder you don't have great gains, 4 cycles and using a huge amount of gear. Maybe you should just stop and learn how to eat properly.

bingo!

diet / rest > training > drugs

WBJ has them the other way around.

[tomsammce]

anyway back on subject!!! im all for comedy but this WBJ shit is just getting old and its not even funny giving him shit anymore.

i have known lotsa guys who have used deca on 8 and 10 week cycles with test and gained really well. obviously longer would be better but longer has its cons as well as its pros. so definitly still worth it.

[comingdayandnight]

anyway back on subject!!! im all for comedy but this WBJ shit is just getting old and its not even funny giving him shit anymore.

i have known lotsa guys who have used deca on 8 and 10 week cycles with test and gained really well. obviously longer would be better but longer has its cons as well as its pros. so definitly still worth it.

Cheers man, pretty much all I was after. Pity that it took 3 pages (9/10ths of it shit) to get the answer.