Older guy - first "Real" Cycle

[Kracka]

Hi I am early 40's.

Lifted on and off for 20 years almost all of it natural....apart for a play with Dbol a couple times (see below).

Starting a first cycle soon...have run a d-bol cycle only a couple of times (6 weeks ea time) and got some good strength gains and size...but that was couple years ago.

Ran some nolva when dbol ran out. No probs, no sides, no grow titties or smaller balls or anything.

Thinking of running this... (as to quality of gear I have a source which I trust, and thats all I will say on that..and don't ask)

*Test-E 250 X2 pw for 14 weeks

*Dbol front load 60mg ed first 4 weeks

*Proviron 25-50mg ed through out cycle

*Nolva two weeks after last Test-E shot

Diet: Going to do a cross between Duchaine's "Body Oups" and Lyle McDonalds "UD2"- but not going to worry about calorie restriction on low carb days....so plenty of protein daily, good fats, and clean carbs for 5 days e/week then 2 Day carb-up on weekends. Carbs will be clean, apart from the weekend carb-up where I might sneak a pizza. But no booze...even though I love a beer - it gets sacrificed.

Training: A mix of volume training and high intensity...if you ever done Body Opus / UD2 you will know about the training regime.

Doing this, at a relatively advanced age for a first time AAS user, for my own personal reasons - and thats as personal about "why" as I want to get.

Current bodyweight 83kg at 5'8" - about 18 % bf...most bf gathers around the waist and chest...shoulders and arms good size and definition and people say "oh you lift weights" even if I haven't worked out for a year (all thw hile sucking my belly in so they don't look at that and go "oh, you drink beer too" lol).

Body type: "Medium" mesomorph, in that I have natural "shape" and I don't lose muscle fast when I am not training, but only gain muscle at a "medium" rate when training hard and eating right (this all without the enhancement of AAS).

There you go - a bit of background, and see what you guys think .... anything I am missing here....

[lazyeye]

60mg of dbol seems high to me but I'm no expert. Perhaps milk thistle to support your liver

[Kracka]

60mg of dbol seems high to me but I'm no expert. Perhaps milk thistle to support your liver

Yes to Milk Thistle

[narcosis73]

you gonna run a cycle log, if so will be keeping a close eye on this as looks identical to what I have planed for early next year apart from the dbol, still on the cards but not at level you are planning to run.

[Kracka]

you gonna run a cycle log, if so will be keeping a close eye on this as looks identical to what I have planed for early next year apart from the dbol, still on the cards but not at level you are planning to run.

Hey there,

Just geting used to this site but will see about the journal.

[Chemo]

Hey welcome to the forum

That's gonna be an amazing first cycle!

Tell us how it all goes! Like narcosis, this is similar to what I want to do for a second cycle. Test and prov base. So very interesting to see how you benefit from it.

[Kracka]

Hey welcome to the forum

That's gonna be an amazing first cycle!

Tell us how it all goes! Like narcosis, this is similar to what I want to do for a second cycle. Test and prov base. So very interesting to see how you benefit from it.

Hey Chemo,

Yea well, I am a bit ??? about the Proviron because some references say may inhibit gains but others say will make the Test work even better ...sooo just will have to wait and see...

[narcosis73]

Hey welcome to the forum

That's gonna be an amazing first cycle!

Tell us how it all goes! Like narcosis, this is similar to what I want to do for a second cycle. Test and prov base. So very interesting to see how you benefit from it.

Hey Chemo,

Yea well, I am a bit ??? about the Proviron because some references say may inhibit gains but others say will make the Test work even better ...sooo just will have to wait and see...

hows it Kracka and Chemo, I know you both may have read this already, but this is why Im planning on added Proviron to my first cycle in April.

So lets go back to the comparison with being some sort of "Oral Masteron"& basically since Proviron is 5-alpha reduced and not capable of forming estrogen, and also has a very high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme (the enzyme responsible for converting all that good testosterone in your body into all that nasty estrogen). That means if you choose to take proviron with testosterone (and I know you wouldnt even be doing a cycle without including some form of testosterone) and/or any aromatizable steroid, it should actually serve to prevent estrogen build up by the aforementioned binding to the aromatase enzyme, which prevents aromatase from doing its dirty work and making a bunch of estrogen out of the other steroids you are taking. It should also be noted that Proviron also binds very well to SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin& a hormone responsible for reducing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body)(1). As a matter of fact, in the last study I read, it bound to SHBG better than any other drug studied. Also, Id like to note that Proviron bound to the Anabolic Receptor better than any oral anabolic (except for the insanely toxic MethylTrienolone), having an ability to bind to the AR better then testosterone, but not as well as Nandrolone (1). Unfortunately, as we know, DHT also has a high affinity for binding to receptors in the scalp and prostate, causing some possible nasty side effects, like male pattern baldness and prostate enlargement. Its important to remember that DHT and DHT derived compounds are used quite successfully to treat gynocomastia, and in this area, Proviron is no different.

Lets delve into some of the positive points of this drug before we go any farther. Androgen Receptors are found in fat cells as well as muscle cells(5), and whilethey act on the AR in muscle cells to promote growth, they also act directly on the AR in fat cells to affect fat burning.(9)(3) The stronger the androgen binds to the A.R, the higher the lipolytic (fat burning) effect on adipose (fat)tissue(6)(2). As if thats not enough good news, some steroids (notably, testosterone) even increase the numbers of A.R. in muscle and fat (9)(7). Thus, if you are taking a simple stack of proviron and testosterone, youll have more of the test you shoot as free testosterone floating around building muscle (compliments of the Proviron), more androgen receptors to be bound to (compliments of your testosterone) by your Proviron, thus causing more fat loss. Testosterone and Proviron are a very nice synergistic stack, pretty nearly an "ideal" stack of an oral and injectable, because both drugs will actually act to enhance the effect of the other.

So what we have here is a steroid which can basically make other steroids more effective by preventing their conversion into estrogen, as well as increasing the amount of circulating free testosterone in your body. This of course all provides a more hardened and quality look to muscles. Proviron is very much a "synergistic" drug in this respect, and its inclusion in any cycle would definitely make all of the other steroids perform better, and provide better gains. This is all compounded by the fact that proviron is a very lipolytic (fat-burning) drug.

interesting to hear from the likes of TOM, MNZ, SIFO, SEVERE, JIMJIM, MAASSIVE well any of the team on here who have cycled and run proviron and know what they are talking about.

cheers all.

[WANABJAKD]

i already know whats on alot of guys minds :pfft: i think its a great cycle, though you could extend the dbol for 6 weeks at 40mg - that would be more bang for your buck, though after a while on dbol your appetite will get crippled and you will begin to feel like shit - thats your liver telling you "f*ck you." either option will be fine though.

[Chemo]

Never heard of Proviron inhibiting gains

I know you both may have read this already, but this is why Im planning on added Proviron to my first cycle in April

Yeah exactly, better bang for your buck out of the test, and prov is much more convenient than mast for the beginner.

20 weeks could be quite expensive but you'd see some quality lasting gains.

I'd go longer with a cycle if I could, just to let the body hold on to the weight and avoid that post cycle frustration of loosing to much weight.

(no science behind that btw lol, just a hunch :3)

[thatwaslight]

i already know whats on alot of guys minds :pfft: i think its a great cycle, though you could extend the dbol for 6 weeks at 40mg - that would be more bang for your buck, though after a while on dbol your appetite will get crippled and you will begin to feel like shit - thats your liver telling you "f*ck you." either option will be fine though.

never had dbol decrease appetite?

[Daz69]

..

[Daz69]

i already know whats on alot of guys minds :pfft: i think its a great cycle, though you could extend the dbol for 6 weeks at 40mg - that would be more bang for your buck, though after a while on dbol your appetite will get crippled and you will begin to feel like shit - thats your liver telling you "f*ck you." either option will be fine though.

never had dbol decrease appetite?

He's pasting from experience remember..... :pfft:

Can't imagine 40mg/day being too harsh on the liver..? Milk Thistle always good with orals....

Dbol always seemed to improve my appetite.... And remember to take your Dbol with grapefruit juice....

http://www.ergo-log.com/grapefruit.html

[WANABJAKD]

i already know whats on alot of guys minds :pfft: i think its a great cycle, though you could extend the dbol for 6 weeks at 40mg - that would be more bang for your buck, though after a while on dbol your appetite will get crippled and you will begin to feel like shit - thats your liver telling you "f*ck you." either option will be fine though.

never had dbol decrease appetite?

He's pasting from experience remember..... :pfft:

that is from personal experience; nonetheless, alot of people complain of the same issue as well.

TWL, as stated above, "alot of people complain of the same issue as well." not only that, but lethargy as well. both of these are common initial symptoms of elevated liver enzymes. keep in mind that everyone does have a different threshold for oral steroids.

[crazyfacials]

happy birthday Ramy

[WANABJAKD]

happy birthday Ramy

thanks bro. reps for birthday wishes! hehe :grin:

[Daz69]

never had dbol decrease appetite?

that is from personal experience; nonetheless, alot of people complain of the same issue as well.

TWL, as stated above, "alot of people complain of the same issue as well." not only that, but lethargy as well. both of these are common initial symptoms of elevated liver enzymes. keep in mind that everyone does have a different threshold for oral steroids.

I've taken the stuff for over 30 years and never had decreased appetite, even at 100-150mg/day....

But with oxymetholone my appetite is severely effected, even as low as 50mg/day....... It also played havoc with my liver too...

WBJK: I think we do have very different thresholds for oral compounds & the trick is finding the right balance that works for you, rather than upping the dose & getting ill, selecting compounds that work synergistically with each other at lower doses seems a better approach...

[Daz69]

Thinking of running this... (as to quality of gear I have a source which I trust, and thats all I will say on that..and don't ask)

*Test-E 250 X2 pw for 14 weeks

*Dbol front load 60mg ed first 4 weeks

*Proviron 25-50mg ed through out cycle

*Nolva two weeks after last Test-E shot

Quite an impressive first cycle for an Older Guy.. (I'm old like you)..

I like the inclusion of the proviron, works great with Test synergistically, has a high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme, lowers SHBG, excellent fat burning qualities, binds to androgen receptors, and improves mood..

To take better advantage of the half life of Enanthate (5.25 days) you might be better off pinning 370mg every 5 days........

It would keep your blood levels more stable....

After subtracting the weight of the ester, you should be getting about 31mg/day for the first 5 days, then 49mg for the next 5, then 54mg for the next 5, & stabilizing out on about 59mg/day thereafter...

So with this in mind: 60mg/day Dbol for the first 4 weeks to front load if you include what you are already getting from the Test E will bounce you bloods a bit high... I'm not sure how long the initial receptor site shite takes to sort itself out so the injectable test starts to become effective at the beginning of a cycle..?

Maybe 60mg for the first 5, then 30mg, then 10mg, then 5mg.... Might create more stable bloods.....

I'd be interested on MNZ or Sifo's opinions on that....?

[tomsammce]

never had dbol decrease appetite?

that is from personal experience; nonetheless, alot of people complain of the same issue as well.

TWL, as stated above, "alot of people complain of the same issue as well." not only that, but lethargy as well. both of these are common initial symptoms of elevated liver enzymes. keep in mind that everyone does have a different threshold for oral steroids.

I've taken the stuff for over 30 years and never had decreased appetite, even at 100-150mg/day....

But with oxymetholone my appetite is severely effected, even as low as 50mg/day....... It also played havoc with my liver too...

WBJK: I think we do have very different thresholds for oral compounds & the trick is finding the right balance that works for you, rather than upping the dose & getting ill, selecting compounds that work synergistically with each other at lower doses seems a better approach...

Exactly... Alladin needs to stfu

[Daz69]

that is from personal experience; nonetheless, alot of people complain of the same issue as well.

TWL, as stated above, "alot of people complain of the same issue as well." not only that, but lethargy as well. both of these are common initial symptoms of elevated liver enzymes. keep in mind that everyone does have a different threshold for oral steroids.

I've taken the stuff for over 30 years and never had decreased appetite, even at 100-150mg/day....

But with oxymetholone my appetite is severely effected, even as low as 50mg/day....... It also played havoc with my liver too...

WBJK: I think we do have very different thresholds for oral compounds & the trick is finding the right balance that works for you, rather than upping the dose & getting ill, selecting compounds that work synergistically with each other at lower doses seems a better approach...

Exactly... Alladin needs to stfu

Someones going to be getting a virtual hand-slap............. :pfft:

[tomsammce]

srs not being smart.. first no appetite on dbol... sure thats why everyone except aladin puts on so much weight on dbol... because they 'dont' eat... fucken lol.. and then the eq thing... wbj, getting back to his old ways.

[Kracka]

Thinking of running this... (as to quality of gear I have a source which I trust, and thats all I will say on that..and don't ask)

*Test-E 250 X2 pw for 14 weeks

*Dbol front load 60mg ed first 4 weeks

*Proviron 25-50mg ed through out cycle

*Nolva two weeks after last Test-E shot

Quite an impressive first cycle for an Older Guy.. (I'm old like you)..

I like the inclusion of the proviron, works great with Test synergistically, has a high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme, lowers SHBG, excellent fat burning qualities, binds to androgen receptors, and improves mood..

To take better advantage of the half life of Enanthate (5.25 days) you might be better off pinning 370mg every 5 days........

It would keep your blood levels more stable....

After subtracting the weight of the ester, you should be getting about 31mg/day for the first 5 days, then 49mg for the next 5, then 54mg for the next 5, & stabilizing out on about 59mg/day thereafter...

So with this in mind: 60mg/day Dbol for the first 4 weeks to front load if you include what you are already getting from the Test E will bounce you bloods a bit high... I'm not sure how long the initial receptor site shite takes to sort itself out so the injectable test starts to become effective at the beginning of a cycle..?

Maybe 60mg for the first 5, then 30mg, then 10mg, then 5mg.... Might create more stable bloods.....

I'd be interested on MNZ or Sifo's opinions on that....?

Hey mate, thanks for this. Excellent.

When I did the Dbol on its own few years ago I had no probs going as high as 80mg per day - course I only had a 100 tabs so they ran out quicker - and I got some **decent** strength and size gains.

But of course its a bit different if I am going to run test and prov with it.

Never had an appetitie problem when I did Dbol only.

Thanks again for your input, esp about perhaps pinning 370 every 5days instead of my 250 x2.

[Daz69]

Thinking of running this... (as to quality of gear I have a source which I trust, and thats all I will say on that..and don't ask)

*Test-E 250 X2 pw for 14 weeks

*Dbol front load 60mg ed first 4 weeks

*Proviron 25-50mg ed through out cycle

*Nolva two weeks after last Test-E shot

Quite an impressive first cycle for an Older Guy.. (I'm old like you)..

I like the inclusion of the proviron, works great with Test synergistically, has a high affinity for binding to the aromatase enzyme, lowers SHBG, excellent fat burning qualities, binds to androgen receptors, and improves mood..

To take better advantage of the half life of Enanthate (5.25 days) you might be better off pinning 370mg every 5 days........

It would keep your blood levels more stable....

After subtracting the weight of the ester, you should be getting about 31mg/day for the first 5 days, then 49mg for the next 5, then 54mg for the next 5, & stabilizing out on about 59mg/day thereafter...

So with this in mind: 60mg/day Dbol for the first 4 weeks to front load if you include what you are already getting from the Test E will bounce you bloods a bit high... I'm not sure how long the initial receptor site shite takes to sort itself out so the injectable test starts to become effective at the beginning of a cycle..?

Maybe 60mg for the first 5, then 30mg, then 10mg, then 5mg.... Might create more stable bloods.....

I'd be interested on MNZ or Sifo's opinions on that....?

Hey mate, thanks for this. Excellent.

When I did the Dbol on its own few years ago I had no probs going as high as 80mg per day - course I only had a 100 tabs so they ran out quicker - and I got some **decent** strength and size gains.

But of course its a bit different if I am going to run test and prov with it.

Never had an appetite problem when I did Dbol only.

Thanks again for your input, esp about perhaps pinning 370 every 5days instead of my 250 x2.

If my maths are correct, the 370mg every 5 days should equate to the same as 500mg/week..... Or by day 20 about 59mg/day....

Adding the Dbol at 60mg, 30mg, 10mg & 5mg in the first 4 lots of 5 days

should take you straight to 60mg/day ish... without bouncing up to 91mg, 109mg, 114mg, 119mg, then back down to 59mg/day......

It seems logical, but I'd be interested on what others more versed in these matters than me make of it.....

If that's correct then you might consider using the Dbol in the same amounts only backwards towards the end of your cycle....... before PCT